ta---still trying to convince us all your a bag o chips and then some......your wife sees it too!

and dont give me the BS that you only behave this way her cause your venting....remembet i live with a mini me of you----I ALSO KNOW THE GAME.

NICE TRY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nikko:
<strong> ta---still trying to convince us all your a bag o chips and then some......your wife sees it too!

and dont give me the BS that you only behave this way her cause your venting....remembet i live with a mini me of you----I ALSO KNOW THE GAME.

NICE TRY </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I said before, will you please help me, I'm trying to figure this out.

I am the one who is grieving for my wife, I do not think "I am all that" since this happened. Before I did, but my EGO and Self Esteem has been crushed.

I'm begging for help, if not for me then for my children. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

ta---if this is your ego crushed---i fear for what your wife has lived with.

hit the button too soon....stop going on and on about your looks what you do and what you have...its ugly---if your whole being is wrapped up in that--meaning that that is how you define yourself..its sad.

your wife toild you she wasnt in love with you---well guess what---she isnt. stop planning a future without her---its one step out the door mentality---and she knows it---so do i.

the program isnt hard---we simple plain folk all got it---whats up with a wonderfull smart good looking guy like yourself that you dont understand??? we see clear as day why she is running...you just dont listen or just dont want to hear it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nikko:
<strong> stop planning a future without her---its one step out the door mentality---and she knows it---so do i.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank You Nikko, I honestly appreciate your opinion. You're right I sometimes think what life would be like without her so I try and comfort myself by thinking about life without her.

From this minute forward I am going to think only aabout her and forget about my feelings. I'm talking to SH next week I'm sure he'll steer me in the correct direction.

SH said I should do Plan A with NO exposure because I have no proof, and to provide a Safety First Zone which I have been doing. My wife has been opening up much more.

Can you give me any other suggestions? Should I continue hugging her (I gave her a hug today and she hugged me back slightly, first in 6 weeks), giving her rubdowns, telling her I love her, etc...

I'm already doing most of the household chores, she has very little to do. She told me to leave her some work because she gets bored with nothing to do. She is not a big TV fan.

I'll take any 2x4's thrown my way, I deserve it.

Any ideas would sincerely be appreciated, I have 6 months to do MB concepts.

TA,

I have been gone for awhile. You can search back to what I went thru. Mrs. TA and Mrs. Mortarman could have been twins separated at birth. Mine said the same things.

What should you do? Just like SH said. Plan A. Whatever that entails. What are her top three ENs? Meet them ALL of the time, in the way that she likes them. If you dont know...FIND OUT!! If rubdowns are just "nice" but are only depositing pennies in the Love Bank, then you are wasting your time with that (of course, if they are deposting hundred dollar bills...then stick with it!!).

Plan A like crazy. At the same time, it is time to do some detective work...without getting caught. SH is right. You cannot accuse without proof. So get proof. Hire a PI. Get some friends to help get info (not friends of hers...buddies that can help you find out where she has gone, or other stuff. Look back at my posts). Do your own undercover work. Get phone records. Document EVERYTHING (write a journal). That document will help you if you go to divorce. But it will also help you as you look back and read it. It will help you see patterns that you cant perceive in the day-to-day. Many times, it was re-reading my journal that I caught something in there that I originally wrote a few times and thought was of no consequence. But re-reading it and the many timesit came up, allowed my suspicons to be raised. And then I could act!!

You have a plan. You are one up on her, because she certainly does not. She has no idea what she is doing, or why she is doing it. You know what she is doing...and why she is doing it. You have experts, forums like this...and even God on your side. She has who? Just the OM. She is so mistached, you should actually feel sorry for her.

And one more thing. Dont get caught up in "fogese." You need to learn it, understand it. Know what is babble, and what is truth. Like what you wife told you. Truth: "I have not been in love with you for awhile." Babble: "There is no way we can regain that love we had." Dont you see?

Ignore the babble...ignore it!! But do concentrate on the truth. Okay, why did my wife stop being in love with me? What could I do to have changed things? What is the OM doing that has pukked her toward him? What are her top ENs? How can I start depositing in her Love Bank?

And once you do that, then wait for the next nugget of truth. All that WSs say is NOT babble. There is truth in there. You must learn to find it...to discern it. Because finding that truth will allow you to better cut to the chase, and move toward depositing large sums in their LB.

Once you learn the difference between babble and truth, then the rest is easy.

In His arms.

Thanks Mortarman.

I appreciate your comments. My wife sends me so many mixed messages. Two weeks ago she called me on her cell phone and she was crying uncontrollably, she said how can you forgive me and how wil you ever trust me again. Along with a ton of other mixed messages. Sometimes it seems like we are getting back together and other times it all feels so hopeless.

Today she tells me to get over it and move on we'll both be better off. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

She said "I don't know why you're taking this so hard." Only together 28 years and she drops the BOMB. She tells me my weaknesses over and over so at least I know what to correct. Now to find out what her top 3 EN are. I'm going to read Dr H books again and guess what they are. I'm also going to ask SH if she told him, she spoke to him one time for about 50 minutes. I have a session with SH next week.

Thanks again, I have to disregard her Fog talk it hurts so much. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OK, TA, list what you THINK are your wife's 5 top ENs.

As KB said, you've been married 28 years, I've been married 30 and I didn't have to fill in a sheet to know what my H's EN's were.

Jen

Welcome to a New Year and a new start, TA.

Since we are in the "teaching an old dog some new tricks" sort of thing, I think I should say that God is ABOUT changing lives and that people learn new behaviors all the time....if they finally admit to themselves that the "old you" really didn't work very well after all.

Before diving into what will be a somewhat lengthy post, let me address the idea that your wife doesn't "love you" and that you are not sure that the "spark" can be rekindled. TA, you are now in much the same position you were in when you first met the lady who was to become your wife. You did NOT know if love would grow or if you'd be married. What you did was....act "as if" you loved her....and the rest happened over time as a natural outgrowth of how you (and she) behaved toward each other. Keep that in mind as you read the rest of this post.

Okay, TA, I’m going to try to suggest some practical things that you can do to accomplish your goal. There really are three major goals , if you stop to think about it. Those 3 goals will be running simultaneously, although at differing rates of speed. The “rate of speed” will depend on many factors, but the primary factor will be the willingness of the individual, you and your wife, to humble yourselves and take on the mantle of servanthood. These 3 goals are: recommitment to the marriage, growing in love and forgiveness with each other, and walking with God in humble obedience to His will and commands (growing in Christ-likeness).

So let’s talk first about you. I’m going to make some assumptions based solely on what you have posted previously, on this and on other threads. So if I’m “off target” a little, or a lot, bear with me because I don’t know you personally.

TA, you are what I would classify as a “high D” personality type. Dominant. Used to being in control. Used to getting your way. Used to getting others to “go along with you” regardless of what they might think or feel. A sort of “my way or the highway” approach to business and relationships. “D’s” are often very successful in business, but dismal in the “touchy/feely” side of relationships (the emotional side). Relationships are most often thought of from the perspective of “what’s in it for me?” The thinking extends to married life if the role of husband as “provider” is taken as THE primary, almost exclusive, role. But as with many things, PEOPLE are multidimensional. A spouse does NOT exist on “material provision alone” unless that spouse is highly materialistic themselves and only sees you as the “sugar daddy.”

While you may be a predominant “D” personality, you are not without the other personality traits. They are there, but are “dominated” by the “D” and only come out on rare occasions. Generally speaking, when faced with a crisis, a person will resort to their “dominant” type….and that’s been painfully evident from your previous posting and the reactions of many on the system.

Only YOU can begin to understand the “types” and only you can CHOOSE, despite “dominant tendencies” to make a change. Why would you want to? Because you are beginning to realize that change IS necessary, even though it “grates” on your “high D” nerves.

In MB terms, you are fighting an internal battle with your “Giver” and your “Taker.” Up to now, your Taker has pretty much been in control. Letting your “Giver” drive the car is “scary” because “that’s not who you are.”

This brings us to your faith, and the working out of that faith in your life.
You said the following, which is a very good STARTING point:

I have a strong belief in God or I couldn't have gotten thru this. I had a gun in my hand on Sept 28th for 3 hours trying to decide if I should commit suicide or not. I prayed to God like I never have before, the pain was unbelievable. I pray daily, I go to church every Sunday, I have since bought a Bible for the first time in my life, and I try and be a better person daily. It takes time folks, I've been this way for 45 years.

Previously you said, also, that you finally went out and bought a Bible (I assume the first one that you have ever had, or had since you were a child).

Crisis often is one of the ways that God uses to get our attention. The fact of the matter is that GOD is in control of everything, not us. But we quite often try to convince ourselves that WE are in control and wrest the reins of control from God, put Him in the back seat, or in the trunk, and just “keep Him around for show” so that others will be impressed. God is relegated to “being useful” for the attainment of OUR goals. God will allow us to do this. He will not force us to submit ourselves to His Lordship of our lives. God gave us Free Will and He let’s us use it. He wants our WILLING submission, not our “forced” submission.

Along the way, God teaches us, through His revealed will as found in the Scripture, how to live a “surrendered” life and how to avoid many of the pitfalls of sinful choices. It does NOT mean that trials and tribulations will not happen to Christians. In fact, we are warned to expect them because Satan is NOT happy with anyone who chooses Christ as their Lord and Savior and will attack in many ways. What it teaches us is HOW to respond to those attacks and WHO’s strength is available to us. It teaches us that our goal is “eternal,” not “finite.”

In the marriage covenant, God has created “helpmeets” and “completers.” Each brings different strengths and weaknesses in to the marriage. It is a “co-equal, side-by-side” sort of relationship, not a “master/slave” or “lord/employee” relationship. Get this God-ordained relationship “out of whack” and you can expect trouble in the relationship.

So….where does that bring us today? It brings us to your needing to understand your “role” as a “child of God, a bride of Christ.” There can be only one Lord. You are going to have to decide WHO you are going to “install” in that position in your life. If you choose, as you have up to now, to put yourself on the “throne” and make your decision bereft of, or sometimes in opposition to, God’s commands and God’s will, then don’t expect any substantial change. You may be able to effect some “window dressing” changes (ala getting rid of all your “toys”), but you will revert to “type” over time and the surface changes will fade and the “old you” will come to the front again.

However, if you truly surrender to God, you will find lasting change, positive change. This may not be easy for you because you may well fit into to the category of people who think of “Christians” (committed Christians) as “namby-pamby,” “wishy-washy,” “too weak to take control of things themselves,” etc.. The reverse is actually the truth, but in a “me first” sort of world, the SERVANTHOOD posture of Christians is taken as weakness instead of a conscious choice make through the strength of Christ and our love for God and what He did for us while we were totally worthless as human beings, who were originally created to a have loving fellowship with God, as our God.

So while I know you are the “impatient type,” you need to start somewhere to learn what your role as a “Child of God” is and what your role as a “husband” is, according to God’s design. That starting point is reading the Bible. READ God’s word for yourself. Think of it like going to see a movie (attending church). You get some of it, but major parts of the “book” are left out, scenes are given over to “artistic license,” and you lose much of what was in the book. Church is good and IS something that we should do (“do not forsake the gathering together of the saints,” “Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy”). But a “once a week” jolt of caffeine is not enough to sustain you throughout the week. That’s where you have a fundamental weakness right now. You have never read the Bible for yourself (or so I assume from your previous writings). You have been “too busy” and left it others to read “for you.” Then they can pick out a few highlights and give you a “Cliff notes” version.

I suspect that you are not much into reading anyway. You prefer get your “soundbites,” and “quick overviews,” and only read when it concerns something important to you or is related to your job. Understand, TA, that as a born-again child of God, there should be NOTHING more important for you than learning for yourself WHAT God has to say and how to defend against all the “slings and arrows” that will be launched your way during your life.

Here’s a question that may help you to frame it better; “Is anything too hard for God?” The companion question to that one is; “Is anything too hard for Man and his limited resources?”

TA, I’m thinking that you might have a lot in common, personality wise, with Peter and with Paul. A couple of very strong individuals who had a lifetime of “doing things their way” until they truly met Jesus. They did not become “weaker.” In fact, they became “stronger.” But they also became “changed.” The “focus” of their lives changed from themselves and their “appearance” to others to being focused on God and submitting their lives to obedience to His word and His will. When they “strayed” from that, God allowed them, but then used that experience to further instruct them.

So, are you at the point where you are open to “instruction?”

Okay, let’s turn to some of your statements and discuss them for a little while.

I want both of us to fall in love with each other again and be honest with each other in our feelings.

TA, those “feelings” that you desire are normal and good. However, they don’t happen “first.” They happen last. They happen as a natural outgrowth of, and response to, loving behavior. You begin to achieve those “feelings” when you first make the decision to ACT in a loving manner. This is fairly normal for someone when they first dating the person who later becomes their spouse. But it does not BEGIN with the feelings. It begins with placing the other person’s wants and needs ahead of your own. It begins with doing things the other person likes, even if we may not be especially fond of that “thing” (i.e. opera). As one “gives” to the other, they find that they begin to receive similar “giving” from the other person because such a response is normal. When one “gets,” a warm feeling of being important, liked, perhaps loved, is felt and it motivates the person to respond themselves in loving ways. In the parlance of MB, you both begin making deposits in each other’s “Love Banks.” When the giving (the deposits) reaches a certain level, you begin to “fall in love” and get those “loving feelings.”

But somewhere along the course of married life, we get inundated with the pressures of life and the “drive for success” and we begin to forget about the “posture of servanthood” that we had while dating. We shift our focus from our spouse to our job and “justify” it with thoughts like, “I’m showing my love by all the money I make and all the material things that my spouse can buy.” “Gee! Aren’t I the greatest catch in the world?!?”

But TA, women are not created by God that way. Women, by nature are “nurturers.” They are “nesters.” They are “more emotional.” They are “more caring.” They are “softer.” Oh sure, society has done a whole lot to convince women that they need to be “just like men,” aggressive, in-control, successful in business, etc. But that’s just another twisting of God’s truth by Satan. Women ARE “just like men, in-control, successful in business, etc.” God created women as EQUAL to men, but different in some areas. Women and men are “completers” of each other. Neither is “complete” without the other, despite society’s protestations to the contrary.

So what has happened to your marriage to bring you to where you find yourself today? Pretty much the same thing that led my wife into her affair. Neglect. Failure to BE the spiritual head of the household. Putting God on the “back burner” and thinking “I” was in control.

Dr H said my wife is the one who is at fault, not me. Dr H said my wife was being Dishonest with her feelings by not telling me her thoughts, same as lying. Dr H said my wife should be nuturing our marriage NOT trying to fix me.

Okay, some of this is true. But it’s also true that “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” In a Christian marriage, the presence or lack of love in the marriage falls squarely on the shoulders of the husband because that is what God has commanded as part of the “role of husbands.” Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (Ephesians 5:25-28 NIV)

Likewise, God’s instructions to wives are clear: Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5: 22-24 NIV)

“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” (Gen.2: 24) This is a profound mystery – but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. (Ephesians 5: 31-33 NIV)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to know what I can do to save my marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TA, this question is the same that I had and that all of us who have tried to survive and affair and save our marriages ask. The answer is different for many depending upon their situation and their relationship (or lack of) with Christ.

But for you, as a Christian, the answer is simple….YOU don’t save your marriage. You perform your “role” as husband, as spiritual head of the household, and as a submissive bride to Christ. You give up the “me” and replace it with “thee.”

“How do I love thee, let me count the ways….” Beginning with God’s description of love and in “self-sacrifice” for the one you love….both God and your wife. Yes, a lot of the pain you feel is legitimate as a consequence of sin. God knows that, but He also provides you with all the strength and all the comfort to overcome your natural human reactions to feeling “sinned against.” “From he who has been forgiven much, much is expected.” Christ IS the example and has earned the right to command us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How to get my wife to open up? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By providing two primary things. First, true attention to what she is saying, bereft of defensive reactions on your part. You have to HEAR her and UNDERSTAND her even if you might disagree. Second, you must provide a “safe environment” where she can TRUST you so that she feels free to discuss the “hard things” with you. She needs to know that you respect her opinions and if they may be in conflict with what you think, that the two of you will be able to discuss the points of disagreement without rancor and be able to reach a “compromise” or an acceptance of one position versus the other. This is a “win-win” sort of thing. If it breaks down to a “win-lose” sort of thing, you can count on her “clamming up” and NOT “opening up” to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Several weeks ago my wife said to me via cellphone "I'm so sorry for all the mean things I've said to you over the last 3 months, I don't know why I said them to you. How can you Trust me after what I've done to you?"

I'd like to know what she means by this "TRUST" issue, I thought the OM didn't know her true feelings? Why is she feeling so guilty and talking of Suicide if she wasn't involved in a true affair? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is precisely what I am talking about. You don’t “hear” her. You don’t understand her. But are you WILLING to learn?

TA, her question to you is LEGITIMATE. I’m betting that you’ve had a history of “cutting off” people who have offended you in some way. She has seen that behavior. She KNOWS that her “feelings” have not been “right” for a married woman. She knows that the “blind trust” of marriage is gone even if you don’t. So she is asking YOU what it will take for YOU to be able to reestablish trust….both your trust in her and her trust in you.

TA, a “Siamese twin” to infidelity is a lack of trust in our spouse. There are many areas where that trust may have been lacking for the Wayward Spouse that set the stage for the EA or PA, in an attempt to “get something that was lacking in the marriage.” For the Betrayed Spouse, the lack of trust is normal because we all know that marriage is about “forsaking all others, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, until death do we part.” A BS now KNOWS that their spouse IS capable of “stepping outside of the marriage.” The trust rebuilding comes from reestablishing that our spouse’s behavior can be “predicted” when they are out of our sight. And that takes time and consistent new behavior on the part of the WS, just as it requires changes in the BS to reestablish trust from the WS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’m so confused. I want to stay in this marriage and both of us love each other with
passion but I’m not sure I can see that happening. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you are confused. Everything you thought you “knew” has been called into question. Of course you are confused, you are in the middle of a crisis with and a “hoped for” but “unknowable with certainty” future. Do you really think that your current position is much different from a person who just found out that they had a cancer in their body? Left untreated it WILL kill them. Treated, it MAY return them to cancer-free health for the rest of their lives. But just as you can’t control a cancer, you can’t “control” your wife. She as to “respond” to your “treatment.” That treatment is your changes in behavior, relationship skills, your true seeking to understand and DO God’s will in your life and in your marriage, etc. Chemotherapy and Radiation Therapy, applied to your own body, is NOT fun. It is often simply “endured” in the hope of a better future. It is applying liberal doses of PATIENCE, because you want it “fixed now!!” and it will never happen that way. The recovery and return to health is measured in years, not weeks or months. It may, and often does, require “lifestyle changes” to minimize the risk of a reoccurrence.

In short, if you don’t DO, if you don’t CHANGE, if you don’t make a compact with God to simply obey Him even if you don’t feel like it or don’t know why…..DON’T expect a “good outcome.”

The same changes apply to your spouse, since she, too, is a Christian.

TA, in using the cancer analogy, let me tell you that you’ve had a “scare.” Since your wife’s affair seems to be “in her head” at this time it’s similar to finding a “spot” on an x-ray. It can be ignored, or testing can be done to determine if it’s malignant or not. It can be surgically excised and changes implemented to minimize it from progressing. But vigilance will also become a watchword. You will both KNOW the warning signs and what to look for in the future. FACING a potential problem instead of ignoring it and hoping it will “just go away” will no longer be an option. You both tried that in the past and have learned that it doesn’t work. All it does is set you both up for bigger problems in the future.”

You want “passion” in your marriage? So do we all. But how do you define “passion?”

Be loveable…. and all the passion you want will follow. But passion does not come first, it comes last in a loving relationship. LUST can come first, but that’s self-serving and is NOT love. LUST is a “false passion.” If you are equating “passion” with wild, exciting, “passionate lovemaking”…..that will be there as part of a loving marriage. But so, too, will be other types of sharing in making love.

“Passion” involves all aspects of surrender to each other in marriage. But let me “clue you in,” as I said earlier in this post, women RESPOND to acts of love that PRECEED the “act of marriage.” IF you want passion, meet HER emotional needs and then hold onto something because you might be very surprised at the level of passionate response that you receive in return!

TA, this has been a rather lengthy post. It is offered in the hope that you will first surrender your life to Christ AS the bridegroom in your relationship with Him. God is a partner in your covenant of marriage. He is the only “3rd person” allowed in any marriage. It is offered in the hope that you will be able to humble yourself before God, seek His help, and DO what He commands….. “and all these things shall be added unto you.” It is offered in the hope that you will embrace ENDURANCE and PATIENCE….waiting on God’s timetable, not yours.

God bless.

TA,

You know...I was going to disect the babble in your last post. But instead, I am just going to stand back and let what ForeverYours just told you stand. This all could have been written about me. Shoot, much of this came up in our last counseling session this week (where my wife and the counselor talked about my Type Dominant personality, and not wanting to let go and let God). I told you...there is very little new under the sun. We have identical problems, identical situations. My wife went back and forth and said the same things yours did.

If you LISTEN to what Forever said and apply it, you will be a better man. That is all your wife wants. She is asking you how. She has no idea. She isnt the spiritual head of your household...you are! Words arent going to convince her. She has 28 years with you. She KNOWS you. But she knows you enough to still consider you...to still wonder how to do this.

You must let go...NOW! Walk day by day, hour by hour, in prayer...asking God what His will is. Dont let one thing go by in your day without asking Him what Hi will is...no matter how small that thing is.

You can not educate your wife. When she asks these questions, point her to Jesus. But even more importantly, let her see Jesus through you. When she babbles, ask yourself what is truth. Ask yourself what Jesus would say about what she is saying.

Here is an example. She says "I dont know how we can ever trust each other." Jesus says: "Trust Me...I am all you need. And I will work all things for the good of those who love Me and follow Me."

She says: "It is impossible. I know you, TA. You will never be able to change." Jesus says: "You can do all things through Me. That when you asked Me, I came to you and made you a new Man."

Do not believe Satan's lies!! He will tell you things like "it is impossible," or "change is impossible." I learned to see that. And when I heard something out of my wife, or out of others (like friends telling me to leave, it will never work out), I just said over and over in my mind "That is not true...it is a lie." And the lie would pass. And then so would the crisis.

You have to learn to tell a lie from the truth. You have to learn to be the man in this relationship and LEAD your wife thru your prayer and your example, out of this. She is screaming for help. She needs SOMEONE to show her the way out. The OM is following Satan's lead, and is leading her in a different direction. If you dont show her the truth of what a Godly man looks like, your wife will be consumed by that. And wake up one day knowing the lie she fell for...and her life destroyed.

Many times, we miss what is going on under the surface. We miss the spiritual battle. Your wife is under attack...so are you. Are you going to let Satan carry her off? Then if you dont, you had better put on your battle gear and prepare for war. How? Forever has given you a good start. But the Bible is your best Battle Plan. You need to be in the Word every day. You need to ask questions of your pastor. You need to seek His wisdom...because everything He says is truth...while what your wife is hearing right now comes from the father of lies.

TA, this is a TEST of YOU!! And your family's future is held in the balance. Your wife's future depends on you. That doesnt mean take charge and do it your way. It doesnt mean trying to "educate" your wife. It means get on your knees and stay there!! It means be quiet and listen. It means refuse to accept lies...and only follow truth. If you cantdiscern it...ask. Ask Him thru prayer. Look thru the Bible. See your pastor. Come here. Find truth.

This is serious business, and your lives...and futures hang in the balance. Come here and vent. Come here and express your insecurities and ask questions. But walk away from your computer screen everyday ready to do war.

Did you start today on your knees?

In His arms.

GOD BLESS YOU, MORTARMAN!!!

Just want to let you know what a difference you have made in my life.

Be on the look out for GEORGIA GUY! I've been trying to be you for him. He needs you.

Check out his thread.

I don't have much time right now but will get caught up with you later!!

Thanks ForeverHers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Before diving into what will be a somewhat lengthy post, let me address the idea that your wife doesn't "love you" and that you are not sure that the "spark" can be rekindled. TA, you are now in much the same position you were in when you first met the lady who was to become your wife. You did NOT know if love would grow or if you'd be married. What you did was....act "as if" you loved her....and the rest happened over time as a natural outgrowth of how you (and she) behaved toward each other. Keep that in mind as you read the rest of this post.
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I know what you're saying but it still hurts to see her everyday and the way she acts towards me. How could someone be with me 28 years, had so many great times together, 2 beautiful children treat me this way? I have loved her everyday, gave her a big Hug & Kiss for 28 years straight (I honestly don't think I missed one day)and I told her I Love her daily. Sometimes I think Plan B is better, at least you don't have to deal with the daily pain. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Okay, TA, I’m going to try to suggest some practical things that you can do to accomplish your goal. There really are three major goals , if you stop to think about it. Those 3 goals will be running simultaneously, although at differing rates of speed. The “rate of speed” will depend on many factors, but the primary factor will be the willingness of the individual, you and your wife, to humble yourselves and take on the mantle of servanthood. These 3 goals are: recommitment to the marriage, growing in love and forgiveness with each other, and walking with God in humble obedience to His will and commands (growing in Christ-likeness).
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I have been Humbled, I also have a lot more compassion for people. At this point my wife still wants out of the marriage and is NOT willing to do anything in terms of getting back together. I am willing to forgive her, I want her back in my life. I too have a strong faith in God but my wife doesn't. I was raised a Catholic and my Mother was very religous. My wife parents were both Alcoholics and the children NEVER attended church. My wife didn't start going to church until we got married. She recieved the Sacraments before we got married and she continued to go to mass with me until about 8 months ago. My Mother warned me about marrying the child of 2 alcoholics and no religous upbringing. At this point my wife doesn't give a damn about our wedding vows before God. She did start to attend church with me last Sunday, we'll see if she goes again this Sunday. She is only going for the childrens sake. I told her our children are going to need all the help they can get and their faith will help them thru these times.

So let’s talk first about you. I’m going to make some assumptions based solely on what you have posted previously, on this and on other threads. So if I’m “off target” a little, or a lot, bear with me because I don’t know you personally.

TA, you are what I would classify as a “high D” personality type. Dominant. Used to being in control. Used to getting your way. Used to getting others to “go along with you” regardless of what they might think or feel. A sort of “my way or the highway” approach to business and relationships. “D’s” are often very successful in business, but dismal in the “touchy/feely” side of relationships (the emotional side). Relationships are most often thought of from the perspective of “what’s in it for me?” The thinking extends to married life if the role of husband as “provider” is taken as THE primary, almost exclusive, role. But as with many things, PEOPLE are multidimensional. A spouse does NOT exist on “material provision alone” unless that spouse is highly materialistic themselves and only sees you as the “sugar daddy.”

While you may be a predominant “D” personality, you are not without the other personality traits. They are there, but are “dominated” by the “D” and only come out on rare occasions. Generally speaking, when faced with a crisis, a person will resort to their “dominant” type….and that’s been painfully evident from your previous posting and the reactions of many on the system.

Only YOU can begin to understand the “types” and only you can CHOOSE, despite “dominant tendencies” to make a change. Why would you want to? Because you are beginning to realize that change IS necessary, even though it “grates” on your “high D” nerves.

In MB terms, you are fighting an internal battle with your “Giver” and your “Taker.” Up to now, your Taker has pretty much been in control. Letting your “Giver” drive the car is “scary” because “that’s not who you are.”
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You hit the NAIL on the head with this statement.

This brings us to your faith, and the working out of that faith in your life.
You said the following, which is a very good STARTING point:

I have a strong belief in God or I couldn't have gotten thru this. I had a gun in my hand on Sept 28th for 3 hours trying to decide if I should commit suicide or not. I prayed to God like I never have before, the pain was unbelievable. I pray daily, I go to church every Sunday, I have since bought a Bible for the first time in my life, and I try and be a better person daily. It takes time folks, I've been this way for 45 years.

Previously you said, also, that you finally went out and bought a Bible (I assume the first one that you have ever had, or had since you were a child).
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I finally opened my new Bible and started to read it yesterday. It seems like it will take longer to read the Bible than this marriage will last.

Crisis often is one of the ways that God uses to get our attention. The fact of the matter is that GOD is in control of everything, not us. But we quite often try to convince ourselves that WE are in control and wrest the reins of control from God, put Him in the back seat, or in the trunk, and just “keep Him around for show” so that others will be impressed. God is relegated to “being useful” for the attainment of OUR goals. God will allow us to do this. He will not force us to submit ourselves to His Lordship of our lives. God gave us Free Will and He let’s us use it. He wants our WILLING submission, not our “forced” submission.

Along the way, God teaches us, through His revealed will as found in the Scripture, how to live a “surrendered” life and how to avoid many of the pitfalls of sinful choices. It does NOT mean that trials and tribulations will not happen to Christians. In fact, we are warned to expect them because Satan is NOT happy with anyone who chooses Christ as their Lord and Savior and will attack in many ways. What it teaches us is HOW to respond to those attacks and WHO’s strength is available to us. It teaches us that our goal is “eternal,” not “finite.”

In the marriage covenant, God has created “helpmeets” and “completers.” Each brings different strengths and weaknesses in to the marriage. It is a “co-equal, side-by-side” sort of relationship, not a “master/slave” or “lord/employee” relationship. Get this God-ordained relationship “out of whack” and you can expect trouble in the relationship.

So….where does that bring us today? It brings us to your needing to understand your “role” as a “child of God, a bride of Christ.” There can be only one Lord. You are going to have to decide WHO you are going to “install” in that position in your life. If you choose, as you have up to now, to put yourself on the “throne” and make your decision bereft of, or sometimes in opposition to, God’s commands and God’s will, then don’t expect any substantial change. You may be able to effect some “window dressing” changes (ala getting rid of all your “toys”), but you will revert to “type” over time and the surface changes will fade and the “old you” will come to the front again.

However, if you truly surrender to God, you will find lasting change, positive change. This may not be easy for you because you may well fit into to the category of people who think of “Christians” (committed Christians) as “namby-pamby,” “wishy-washy,” “too weak to take control of things themselves,” etc.. The reverse is actually the truth, but in a “me first” sort of world, the SERVANTHOOD posture of Christians is taken as weakness instead of a conscious choice make through the strength of Christ and our love for God and what He did for us while we were totally worthless as human beings, who were originally created to a have loving fellowship with God, as our God.
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I don't know how to surrender to God? I'm also scared if I do, I'm not sure why?

So while I know you are the “impatient type,” you need to start somewhere to learn what your role as a “Child of God” is and what your role as a “husband” is, according to God’s design. That starting point is reading the Bible. READ God’s word for yourself. Think of it like going to see a movie (attending church). You get some of it, but major parts of the “book” are left out, scenes are given over to “artistic license,” and you lose much of what was in the book. Church is good and IS something that we should do (“do not forsake the gathering together of the saints,” “Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy”). But a “once a week” jolt of caffeine is not enough to sustain you throughout the week. That’s where you have a fundamental weakness right now. You have never read the Bible for yourself (or so I assume from your previous writings). You have been “too busy” and left it others to read “for you.” Then they can pick out a few highlights and give you a “Cliff notes” version.
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I am very impatient that is why this is killing me.

I suspect that you are not much into reading anyway. You prefer get your “soundbites,” and “quick overviews,” and only read when it concerns something important to you or is related to your job. Understand, TA, that as a born-again child of God, there should be NOTHING more important for you than learning for yourself WHAT God has to say and how to defend against all the “slings and arrows” that will be launched your way during your life.
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Sometimes I hate talking to you, I can't believe how well you know me. I only read Financial magazines and books completey. Everything else is soundbites like you said.

Here’s a question that may help you to frame it better; “Is anything too hard for God?” The companion question to that one is; “Is anything too hard for Man and his limited resources?”
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It is not hard for God, but it is hard for me.

TA, I’m thinking that you might have a lot in common, personality wise, with Peter and with Paul. A couple of very strong individuals who had a lifetime of “doing things their way” until they truly met Jesus. They did not become “weaker.” In fact, they became “stronger.” But they also became “changed.” The “focus” of their lives changed from themselves and their “appearance” to others to being focused on God and submitting their lives to obedience to His word and His will. When they “strayed” from that, God allowed them, but then used that experience to further instruct them.

So, are you at the point where you are open to “instruction?”
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A big YES, I'm starting to lose hope. I need every bit of help I can get. Everytime I read your threads and others I become inspired again. I'm so addicted to this site, I have it on one of my 6 Trading monitors and I only use it for this site.

Okay, let’s turn to some of your statements and discuss them for a little while.

I want both of us to fall in love with each other again and be honest with each other in our feelings.

TA, those “feelings” that you desire are normal and good. However, they don’t happen “first.” They happen last. They happen as a natural outgrowth of, and response to, loving behavior. You begin to achieve those “feelings” when you first make the decision to ACT in a loving manner. This is fairly normal for someone when they first dating the person who later becomes their spouse. But it does not BEGIN with the feelings. It begins with placing the other person’s wants and needs ahead of your own. It begins with doing things the other person likes, even if we may not be especially fond of that “thing” (i.e. opera). As one “gives” to the other, they find that they begin to receive similar “giving” from the other person because such a response is normal. When one “gets,” a warm feeling of being important, liked, perhaps loved, is felt and it motivates the person to respond themselves in loving ways. In the parlance of MB, you both begin making deposits in each other’s “Love Banks.” When the giving (the deposits) reaches a certain level, you begin to “fall in love” and get those “loving feelings.”
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I do act in a Loving manner, maybe I didn't before. I've been a TAKER most of the time.

But somewhere along the course of married life, we get inundated with the pressures of life and the “drive for success” and we begin to forget about the “posture of servanthood” that we had while dating. We shift our focus from our spouse to our job and “justify” it with thoughts like, “I’m showing my love by all the money I make and all the material things that my spouse can buy.” “Gee! Aren’t I the greatest catch in the world?!?”
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I never thought I was the Greatest catch in the world, but I did think I was a Good catch, BIG mistake. My wife told me after D-Day she didn't give a damn about our money, money meant nothing to her. She said she could live on $50,000 a year in a small house and be happy.

But TA, women are not created by God that way. Women, by nature are “nurturers.” They are “nesters.” They are “more emotional.” They are “more caring.” They are “softer.” Oh sure, society has done a whole lot to convince women that they need to be “just like men,” aggressive, in-control, successful in business, etc. But that’s just another twisting of God’s truth by Satan. Women ARE “just like men, in-control, successful in business, etc.” God created women as EQUAL to men, but different in some areas. Women and men are “completers” of each other. Neither is “complete” without the other, despite society’s protestations to the contrary.

So what has happened to your marriage to bring you to where you find yourself today? Pretty much the same thing that led my wife into her affair. Neglect. Failure to BE the spiritual head of the household. Putting God on the “back burner” and thinking “I” was in control.
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I definately neglected her and took her for granted.

Dr H said my wife is the one who is at fault, not me. Dr H said my wife was being Dishonest with her feelings by not telling me her thoughts, same as lying. Dr H said my wife should be nuturing our marriage NOT trying to fix me.

Okay, some of this is true. But it’s also true that “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” In a Christian marriage, the presence or lack of love in the marriage falls squarely on the shoulders of the husband because that is what God has commanded as part of the “role of husbands.” Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (Ephesians 5:25-28 NIV)

Likewise, God’s instructions to wives are clear: Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5: 22-24 NIV)

“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” (Gen.2: 24) This is a profound mystery – but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. (Ephesians 5: 31-33 NIV)
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Don't misunderstand me, I take full responsibility for the problems in our marriage. I only wish my wife would have said something EVER, she never said there was any problems and continued to have Sex with me. I find this confusing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to know what I can do to save my marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TA, this question is the same that I had and that all of us who have tried to survive and affair and save our marriages ask. The answer is different for many depending upon their situation and their relationship (or lack of) with Christ.

But for you, as a Christian, the answer is simple….YOU don’t save your marriage. You perform your “role” as husband, as spiritual head of the household, and as a submissive bride to Christ. You give up the “me” and replace it with “thee.”

“How do I love thee, let me count the ways….” Beginning with God’s description of love and in “self-sacrifice” for the one you love….both God and your wife. Yes, a lot of the pain you feel is legitimate as a consequence of sin. God knows that, but He also provides you with all the strength and all the comfort to overcome your natural human reactions to feeling “sinned against.” “From he who has been forgiven much, much is expected.” Christ IS the example and has earned the right to command us.
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I am definately a better Husband and Father than I was 3.5 months ago.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How to get my wife to open up? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By providing two primary things. First, true attention to what she is saying, bereft of defensive reactions on your part. You have to HEAR her and UNDERSTAND her even if you might disagree. Second, you must provide a “safe environment” where she can TRUST you so that she feels free to discuss the “hard things” with you. She needs to know that you respect her opinions and if they may be in conflict with what you think, that the two of you will be able to discuss the points of disagreement without rancor and be able to reach a “compromise” or an acceptance of one position versus the other. This is a “win-win” sort of thing. If it breaks down to a “win-lose” sort of thing, you can count on her “clamming up” and NOT “opening up” to you.
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I have NO reason to lie, especially on the Internet. I have honestly provided my wife with a BIG Safety Zone. I told her many times in a very calm voice that I have assumed the worst case scenario and I can get thru this with her help. She now knows I respect her Opinion, but for years I didn't.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Several weeks ago my wife said to me via cellphone "I'm so sorry for all the mean things I've said to you over the last 3 months, I don't know why I said them to you. How can you Trust me after what I've done to you?"

I'd like to know what she means by this "TRUST" issue, I thought the OM didn't know her true feelings? Why is she feeling so guilty and talking of Suicide if she wasn't involved in a true affair? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is precisely what I am talking about. You don’t “hear” her. You don’t understand her. But are you WILLING to learn?

TA, her question to you is LEGITIMATE. I’m betting that you’ve had a history of “cutting off” people who have offended you in some way.
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I'm really starting to hate you, I'm starting to think you are my IC, he knows my screen name LOL. And yes I do cut people off when they screw me over, so I'm sure my wife may think I'll do the same to her especially if she had SEX with OM. She knows how sacred sex was to me, I met her when we were 18 and she was a virgin. Even though we HAD a great Sex life I was faithful for 28 years and I'm sure she knows this will kill me if I find out she did have sex. I don't blame her.

She has seen that behavior. She KNOWS that her “feelings” have not been “right” for a married woman. She knows that the “blind trust” of marriage is gone even if you don’t. So she is asking YOU what it will take for YOU to be able to reestablish trust….both your trust in her and her trust in you.

TA, a “Siamese twin” to infidelity is a lack of trust in our spouse. There are many areas where that trust may have been lacking for the Wayward Spouse that set the stage for the EA or PA, in an attempt to “get something that was lacking in the marriage.” For the Betrayed Spouse, the lack of trust is normal because we all know that marriage is about “forsaking all others, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, until death do we part.” A BS now KNOWS that their spouse IS capable of “stepping outside of the marriage.” The trust rebuilding comes from reestablishing that our spouse’s behavior can be “predicted” when they are out of our sight. And that takes time and consistent new behavior on the part of the WS, just as it requires changes in the BS to reestablish trust from the WS.
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Could you please delve further into the Trust issue, I'm having a hard time with this. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’m so confused. I want to stay in this marriage and both of us love each other with
passion but I’m not sure I can see that happening. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you are confused. Everything you thought you “knew” has been called into question. Of course you are confused, you are in the middle of a crisis with and a “hoped for” but “unknowable with certainty” future. Do you really think that your current position is much different from a person who just found out that they had a cancer in their body? Left untreated it WILL kill them. Treated, it MAY return them to cancer-free health for the rest of their lives. But just as you can’t control a cancer, you can’t “control” your wife. She as to “respond” to your “treatment.” That treatment is your changes in behavior, relationship skills, your true seeking to understand and DO God’s will in your life and in your marriage, etc. Chemotherapy and Radiation Therapy, applied to your own body, is NOT fun. It is often simply “endured” in the hope of a better future. It is applying liberal doses of PATIENCE, because you want it “fixed now!!” and it will never happen that way. The recovery and return to health is measured in years, not weeks or months. It may, and often does, require “lifestyle changes” to minimize the risk of a reoccurrence.
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I like the Cancer Analogy, really puts things in Pespective. I am learing Patience, but it is Killing me inside. I want so bad to be with my wife again. I miss talking to her, having SF, etc... I cry like a baby when I think that we may never be Initmate again. I still don't understand how a Woman can "Change Overnight?"

In short, if you don’t DO, if you don’t CHANGE, if you don’t make a compact with God to simply obey Him even if you don’t feel like it or don’t know why…..DON’T expect a “good outcome.”
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I have honestly changed a lot in the last 2 months, but I know I need a lot more work. I just saw my IC today and he said he sees big changes already. I know change is hard and it will take time, I hope and pray that God allows us to stay together long enough for my wife to see the changes.

The same changes apply to your spouse, since she, too, is a Christian.
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I'm not sure if she is a Christian? She received the Sacraments thru the Catholic Church so we could get married, my Mother would not allow us to get married otherwise. My wife most likely did it to shut my Mother up. My wife does NOT understand my Faith in God.

TA, in using the cancer analogy, let me tell you that you’ve had a “scare.” Since your wife’s affair seems to be “in her head” at this time it’s similar to finding a “spot” on an x-ray. It can be ignored, or testing can be done to determine if it’s malignant or not. It can be surgically excised and changes implemented to minimize it from progressing. But vigilance will also become a watchword. You will both KNOW the warning signs and what to look for in the future. FACING a potential problem instead of ignoring it and hoping it will “just go away” will no longer be an option. You both tried that in the past and have learned that it doesn’t work. All it does is set you both up for bigger problems in the future.”

You want “passion” in your marriage? So do we all. But how do you define “passion?”

Be loveable…. and all the passion you want will follow. But passion does not come first, it comes last in a loving relationship. LUST can come first, but that’s self-serving and is NOT love. LUST is a “false passion.” If you are equating “passion” with wild, exciting, “passionate lovemaking”…..that will be there as part of a loving marriage. But so, too, will be other types of sharing in making love.

“Passion” involves all aspects of surrender to each other in marriage. But let me “clue you in,” as I said earlier in this post, women RESPOND to acts of love that PRECEED the “act of marriage.” IF you want passion, meet HER emotional needs and then hold onto something because you might be very surprised at the level of passionate response that you receive in return!
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I am trying to be a very Loveable husband to her. Naturally she is refusing any of my attempts to be nice, SH said if I continue she will most likely give in if I have enough time. Steve said I have to make myself the more attractive (not physically) alternative for my wife

TA, this has been a rather lengthy post. It is offered in the hope that you will first surrender your life to Christ AS the bridegroom in your relationship with Him. God is a partner in your covenant of marriage. He is the only “3rd person” allowed in any marriage. It is offered in the hope that you will be able to humble yourself before God, seek His help, and DO what He commands….. “and all these things shall be added unto you.” It is offered in the hope that you will embrace ENDURANCE and PATIENCE….waiting on God’s timetable, not yours.

God bless.
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Thank you so much for your time and effort, I can't say enough about some of the great people I have met on this site. I only wish I was as nice as all of you are. Please include my family in your prayers. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Andrew

<small>[ January 06, 2005, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: TA ]</small>

OK, I have not read every post here, but one thing jumped out at me. Actually, alot of things jumped out at me. I could have written this original post. Amazing how similar WS are, but they all believe their situation is unique. Don't wnat to be cruel but this one thing bothered me:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I asked her if she had sex with him, and she said "NO" NOT YET, she wants me out of the house first because she feels guilty if she does.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW told me this originally when I confronted, said she wanted to, but did not have sex with OM. Damnit! I wanted to believe her. About 6-8 weeks ago, after this just kept nagging at me, I pressed her on this, and she admitted to having sex, more than once. This totally set me back. I actually told her to move out and throw a suitcase on the bed, but she refused to go (guess that was sort of good sign).

When she admitted this, it was about 7 months after I confronted. You need to be sure that you can move on, and recover if possible, if she did have sex. I am still struggling with this, and WW knows this. Something to think about.

I've already assumed the worst case scenario. My gut tells me she did, but she swore to our psycologist she did NOT have sex. I don't believe one word these WS's say.

I still want her back even if she had sex with OM. Something told me about 3 weeks ago that she had sex and I broke down so emotionally I thought I was going to pass out. I started to cry so hard, asking how could she have done this to me, how could God allow this to happen? My stomach hurt so much I didn't eat anything except a banana and water for about 3 days. I've lost 57 lbs in less than 15 weeks, and still dropping. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm trying so hard to keep my faith, my marriage, and my family together. It seems like my wife is starting to withdraw even more. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I talk to SH every 2 weeks at least, my IC, visit this board everyday, and pray hard for my family.

I hope God hears my prayers.

Holy Crap...I read all of this...and it is a look back on my life....

TA..I have said over and over you and I are like twin brothers. You are not alone in your experiences, in your angst, or insecurities. I remember how frustrated I was when people told me "Look at you, you'll be fine"; "You're young, attractive, have a great job, etc"....

What I further learned from YOU was the way that others here see you (and how others must heave seen me). I do not think that you fully understand YOU...and you're still seeking help here...GOOD!!!

TA..I will tell you...no matter what happens you'll be OK. It sure doesn't seem that way right now does it? I hope you do not endure a divorce like I did. I went what you're going through for 5 YEARS!!! And ended up divorced. She tells me now it took her little time to realize her mistake.. We both speak of how we never ...ever thought either one of us would consider giving each other a second chance.... and now....recovery...another thing that is "easy"..**LOL**


TA...I wish you the best...you may e-mail me at coombse@excite.com if you'd like a private discussion....I know EXACTLY where you're at....

Originally posted by Send me on my way:
Holy Crap...I read all of this...and it is a look back on my life....

TA..I have said over and over you and I are like twin brothers. You are not alone in your experiences, in your angst, or insecurities. I remember how frustrated I was when people told me "Look at you, you'll be fine"; "You're young, attractive, have a great job, etc"....

What I further learned from YOU was the way that others here see you (and how others must heave seen me).

I do not think that you fully understand YOU...and you're still seeking help here...GOOD!!!
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I'll be the first to admit I don't understand who I am. In fact I just completed a Personality Test about a half hour ago.

This is the test I took: http://www.pearsonassessments.com/tests/mcmi_3.htm

I'll have the results Monday after my IC interpets them. I know I need change, I want to make sure I am headed in the right direction and to focus my energies in the appropriate areas.
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TA..I will tell you...no matter what happens you'll be OK. It sure doesn't seem that way right now does it? I hope you do not endure a divorce like I did. I went what you're going through for 5 YEARS!!! And ended up divorced. She tells me now it took her little time to realize her mistake.. We both speak of how we never ...ever thought either one of us would consider giving each other a second chance.... and now....recovery...another thing that is "easy"..**LOL**


TA...I wish you the best...you may e-mail me at coombse@excite.com if you'd like a private discussion....I know EXACTLY where you're at....
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I know I'll be ok, a few weeks ago I did not feel that way. I meet women easily so I'm not worried about a new relationship. I want my wife back period. I've always been independent and successful so I'm not worried about this either. I don't want to break up my family and the way of life that I used to know. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BTW, how can a Divorce take 5 years? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TA:
<strong>I'll be the first to admit I don't understand who I am. In fact I just completed a Personality Test about a half hour ago.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally understand how you feel about this. When you are married the two of you become one and you sort of lose your own identity. Its kinda scary when things go down the toliet to start looking at who you are on your own.

<small>[ January 07, 2005, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Miker ]</small>