Hello everyone!

Happy New Year!

May this year be so much better than last.....

As I had stated in another thread, I have decided to go ahead and work on D papers. I have decided to heed the wise council of Lemonman, and not allow myself to be a doormat anymore.

When I told my wife of my change of heart, she was so surprised....she also said she was depressed.....to which I replied (small LB here, but I am entitled to a few), "Why are you depressed? I thought you are in love, shouldn't you be happy?"

She didn't have much of a reply to that.

In CA, there is a six-month waiting period before the D can be finalized. So even if I file, the door is still open for her to come out of the fog.

Now, to the question: My WW told me recently, after reading a book about DIY D, that to retain an attorney was completely unnecessary, and we could do it ourselves. She added that if I were to retain one, she would view that as malicious and antagonistic. She said it is a lawyer's job to make mountains out of mole hills, and more often than not, the spouses become bitter enemies once the lawyers are through fighting over every single issue (all the while racking up huge fees).

Keeping in mind we have no children....opinions on whether to try to DIY, or is a lawyer always warranted?


TM

PS - my WW and OM went to San Francisco for a three day weekend for New Years....I stayed here...

TM -

Please excuse me while I wipe off the soda that I spewed through my nose onto the screen. She has the nerve to say that protecting yourself by hiring an attorney is malicious and antagonistic? Give me a break.

What I would do is add up all of the money that you have spent on her career and a portion of her future earnings. Ask her for that amount. If she agrees, then do your own divorce. If she doesn't agree, get a good attorney.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TravellinMan: ... I have decided to go ahead and work on D papers. I have decided to heed the wise council of Lemonman, and not allow myself to be a doormat anymore. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TravellinMan: When I told my wife of my change of heart, she was so surprised....she also said she was depressed.....to which I replied (small LB here, but I am entitled to a few), "Why are you depressed? I thought you are in love, shouldn't you be happy?"

She didn't have much of a reply to that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Reverse babble at it's finest. So you found a way to give her back her babble and keep her from giving you more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Good!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TravellinMan: In CA, there is a six-month waiting period before the D can be finalized. So even if I file, the door is still open for her to come out of the fog.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Yep.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TravellinMan: Now, to the question: My WW told me recently, after reading a book about DIY D, that to retain an attorney was completely unnecessary, and we could do it ourselves. She added that if I were to retain one, she would view that as malicious and antagonistic. She said it is a lawyer's job to make mountains out of mole hills, and more often than not, the spouses become bitter enemies once the lawyers are through fighting over every single issue (all the while racking up huge fees).

Keeping in mind we have no children....opinions on whether to try to DIY, or is a lawyer always warranted?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Yea, most of us have heard that kind of babble. Imagine after inflicting all that pain and wasting family funds on the A, she now wants to SAVE U $$$? What does she take you for a blooming idiot? Oh yea, the WS thinks all BS' are idiots. Well you are going to prove her wrong, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>TravellinMan: WW and OM went to San Francisco for a three day weekend for New Years....I stayed here... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Hm..... we got MBers out that way..... you have a good lawyer yet? Maybe some of the CA MBers can help you out. Gotta let us know which part you are in (northern, southern, central, valley, bay area, etc.). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

<small>[ January 01, 2005, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks believerand Orchid for the responses (2x4's?) regarding the lawyer....

I am in the West LA area. So any referrals of a competent, pro-reconciliation, but also Junkyard Dog tough lawyer would be appreciated....Christian is a big plus....


believer - I was going to use that tactic to make sure I get 1/2 the house we still own in Texas.....the issue is - my WW bought the house (from her father) a few of years before we were married. I lived with her there (yeah, I know), and helped pay the mortgage, taxes, etc....BUT, my name was never put on the title, even once we were married, so I imagine that it would have to go to court if she wants to try and keep 100% of it.

I am not banking on the reimbursements or future pay....I know for sure the future earnings are not taken into account in either CA or TX.....

TM

TM,

Got a fair group down your way. Pep, 2Long, Believer, Cymanca, Cali, etc.....

Hail them up and see what kind of reference/help they can lend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Travellinman,

As strange as it sounds if you have very little assets and no children, California law is set up to make the procedure user friendly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I am not familiar with your story but it seems that if you are talking about any assets an attorney is necessary.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am in the West LA area. So any referrals of a competent, pro-reconciliation, but also Junkyard Dog tough lawyer would be appreciated....Christian is a big plus </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Miraculously, my WW hired exactly such an attorney and I have found that he has tried to talk her out of the D. He is a very religious man and very involved in his Christianity. Unfortunately, my WW lied to everyone, including her lawyer. My D process has finally picked up steam as I have refused to pay anything above the 50% I owe on all the bills and the bill collectors have started to call. I know my credit rating is taking a hit but I wish that I had done this a long time ago. I have desperately tried to shake up her idyllic life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> but I have had absolutely no success.

Who gives a rat's [censored] if she views you protecting your legal rights as "malicious and antagonistic"? What's the worst she'll do? Hire her own lawyer? Big deal.

It's certainly possible to do your own divorce, but you'd be foolish to do the whole thing without at least having a lawyer review what you're doing. Throwing a lawyer into the mix doesn't automatically make everything antagonistic -- it totally depends on the lawyer. My lawyer, for instance, told me that, generally speaking, seeking divorce on grounds of adultery (an option where I live) is rarely a good idea, because it's excessively expensive and just makes the whole process more painful for everybody. Good of him to say, given that he would stand to make a lot of money from running such actions for his clients. Shop around for a lawyer. Tell him/her that you want the divorce done with a minimum of bloodshed, and you should be able to get a sense of his/her style. If it's not right for you, hire a different one.

The only thing that will turn the process into a lengthy court fight will be a desire on her part to make it into one. Her lawyer works for her, not the other way around, and she is completely in charge of telling him/her what she wants to pursue and how aggressively she wants to pursue it. You can tell her that, and also that if she chooses to turn the divorce into World War Three, on her own head be it.

TBXWW and I have done our own separation agreement and most of the court paperwork is being done by our respective lawyers. And, oddly enough, despite the involvement of lawyers, the legal details of the divorce have been the point of LEAST contention between her and me in the last year.

Of course, given that your TBXWW seems to really want you to not hire a lawyer, it's possible she's up to something. That alone might be a good reason to hire one.

<small>[ January 01, 2005, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: reservoirdog1 ]</small>

I'm not familiar with California, but in my state many people who want to save on high lawyers fees in divorce use a certified mediator. Generall you go to three sessions with the mediator, who tries to work out a settlement. If it can be done, he/she draws up legal documents that are then reviewed by a separate lawyer for each spouse.

Here, the divorce mediators are as versed in the law as the attorneys, but charge significantly less. A good friend recently paid about $1,500 for a divorce, and she has children and fairly complicated finances.

It might be worth a try.

TM -

I live just south of you in Oceanside. What I tried to do was start out at the lowest level. WH and I sat together and wrote out a separation agreement. Our lawyer said it would be just like a business agreement, and he would do the paperwork for only $300.

WH wrote everything out and I agreed with it. We sent it to lawyer who wrote it up. I paid the lawyer. When the agreement was ready WH refused to sign it, even though he had written it. So, that was $300. down the drain.

Next we decided to go to a mediator. I made 2 appointments, and WH didn't show up.

Then we sat down again to try to agree on something. The problem is, WH wants to walk out of the marriage, move his OW into our home, and have me take a hike. We have very little to split up, but he wants it all.

He thinks it is fair to keep his retirement, the pay from his new job, the over $100,000. that he and OW blew on partying, the $25,000. retirement bonus he went through, a brand new paid for Harley, another paid for Harley, his truck, 2 more motorcycles, and the mobile home that I live in and have been paying for and fixing up since he went to live with OW.

So my alternative is to get a lawyer, and spend the $3,000. retainer, plus court costs. The average divorce in California costs about $10,000.

I think when you sit down to discuss things with your wife, you will very quickly learn if she is willing to be fair or not.

Thanks again to all that have posted -

She already met with an attorney, and was told that she would have to put $3000.00 down as a retainer, and the bill could go as high as - or even higher than - $10,000 per side.....

She is on a resident's salary, and will not even be able to make her existing bills right now....maybe she is hoping to use some of the OM's income when he goes into practice this summer....although I seriously doubt that they will make it that far....

The reason I say this is I know my WW. She is a handful.....but I am sure her true colors are not shining yet with the OM (I also have been told by the OM's W that he has some serious issues, too). When her father agreed to let me marry her (I know, how old-fashioned)...he asked me if I knew what I was gettiing into - and I did. Since we dated for 5+ years and lived together approx 3.5 of those years, I knew exactly what I was getting into.

I have not seen her face in over a month, but can't do a real plan B yet because she hasn't moved her stuff out - she has yet to rent a place of her own.....I am almost positive that she is staying at the OM's apartment - I think maybe I will drive out there late one night and snap some pics of her car parked there....never hurts to have some proof. Also, she and I have to discuss alot about financial issues - which she has been avoiding as of late. I have tried to get her to agree to a time to sit down with me and settle the splitting of the bills, but she keeps putting me off....

Sorry to ramble on so much....I guess I am in a typeative <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> mood.

Cymanca - do you have his name - I would like to contact him...


TB - Yes, I have considered getting a mediator...I will talk to a lwyer first, then examine the mediator possibilities...


TM

ravellinMan,

She has to split up the equity of the Tx house. Both of you M and both of you contribute some $ toward the mortage. Get a lawyer.

-rh-

Travelin Man,

She already met with an attorney, and was told that she would have to put $3000.00 down as a retainer, and the bill could go as high as - or even higher than - $10,000 per side.....


If the lawyer she met with told her this, it means that he DOES NOT see this as an easy do-it yourself type divorce. It means he sees issues -since you have no children and, as such, no custody/support issues, it means he sees financial issues. YOU NEED A LAWYER.

My attorney thought I was going to have custody/child support issues, additionally, my now XH was living overseas, so we had to use an international treaty and go through the State Department to get permission from the Crown to serve him in their country. My retainer was $2,000 (and that's with a professional discount as I am also an attorney). We ended up reaching a settlement very easily and I did almost all of the work so that all my attorney had to do was fill-in the blanks in a form settlement agreement. My final bill was an additional $1500 on top of my retainer. That should give you dollar amounts to benchmark by and see that, yes, if your WW is trying to persuade you NOT to get an attorney its because there is something she stands to lose! (Me thinks it may have something to do with her chosen profession, future earning capacity, the fact that you have supported her while she was going through school, etc., although I do not know for sure as a) I am not a domestic relations lawyer and b) not licensed in CA - again, you NEED to consult with an attorney).

Also, don't know about CA, but TX is a community property state. Under TX law, the house in TX would actually go to her but she would be required to split an appreciated value, plus any mortgage payments made during the term of the marriage with you 50-50.

Regards,

Brit's Brat/BS-43
XH-45
DS-3 years old
Status: D-Day 5/01, Divorce final 5/04 after fighting to save marriage for 2 years.

Brit's Brat is on to something. She is in residency. I take it she is becoming a doctor. Did you support her through school? Now she wants to leave you. You may be entitled to a portion of her future earnings for a certain time period. Get a lawyer. Antagonistic...give me a break.

TM,

Email me at killnme2004-mb@yahoo.com. I think I still have the attorney's name when I though my H was going to D me last year.

TM,

I would definately agree with everyone to go the Lawyer route. Sounds like the house is a big financial issue, persue it definately. I've been told by others to be aggressive in the D just to protect yourself. Of course if down the road you and XWW become cordial around each other you can always make some other kind of arrangements. You don't want to look back and say man I wish I would have gotten this or that. Just protect yourself I guess.

My WW has also wondered why we can't do the D "the easy way". I've been actually laughing at this. We don't have much as far as assets go just a lot of debt. We do have the kids though which is going to be our big issue.

Resdog:My lawyer, for instance, told me that, generally speaking, seeking divorce on grounds of adultery (an option where I live) is rarely a good idea, because it's excessively expensive and just makes the whole process more painful for everybody.

Resdog, could you please explain this, Adultery is also on the books where I live, Idaho. My IC is the one that told me this. I'm wondering why you wouldn't pursue this if that is the reason behind the D.

Native

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My WW told me recently, after reading a book about DIY D, that to retain an attorney was completely unnecessary, and we could do it ourselves. She added that if I were to retain one, she would view that as malicious and antagonistic. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give us all abreak!! And committing adultery, shovng it in your face, and letting you put her through medical school or at least a decent proportion of it is not being
malicious and antagonistic ???

Travelling man

Just move a little bit to the right,…reality sniper gun loaded with ‘real life’ now on target….there….crack… bounce, bounce, bounce…sorry mate NOTHING could get through THAT fog!!!

Just get a lawyer like you described and ignore her. Sorry but no patience with that sort of BS and I dont mean betrayed spouse, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TM,

U didn't know that in the fog all lawyers look like OMs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She wants to retain them for her benefit not yours.

In reality, there are good lawyers, gotta look for the one's who aren't dripping wet and dressed in a suit. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.