WH says he wants things to improve, knows what is required to help things improve, but refuses to do these things.

Affair was a one night stand, no contact since then.

We did 4 sessions of MC and then he decided it was not helping even though he liked the MC - he just thinks that counseling in general is not effective. I would like to return to MC but he will not.

During those 4 sessions of MC, we agreed on measureable, reasonable things that each of us could do to improve the relationship (both of us), and help me to heal after the betrayal (him). I have been holding up my end of the deal, but he has not. Sample items on his list are: telling me that he loves me every 1-2 days, expressing affection verbally or in nonsexual but physical ways (i.e. hug, hand-holding) every 1-2 days, etc. Even though he agreed in MC that these things are reasonable and do-able, he has not and will not do them. When I ask him why he can't or won't, he says he doesn't know why.

What breaks my heart is not only that he cheated on me (while I was recovering from a 2nd trimester miscarriage), but that he refuses to do what is necessary to help heal our marriage. In my mind, if our relationship was important to him, he would be able to tell me that he loves me every day or every other day, know what I mean? It's not like I am asking for a dozen roses every Friday, or novella-length declarations of love, or whatever. I just want frequent reassurance of his love for me, since he hurt me so badly when I was already down and out.

This brings me to a standstill. In other areas, our marriage is good. Sex life is good for both of us, life goals are the same, values and the same, parenting style is the same (we have a young son together), etc. But I don't feel the love and affection coming from him - which wouldn't be a huge problem except that he cheated on me.

So...if your WS said s/he wanted to help things improve, knew what was needed, but still could not or would not do what was needed, what did you do? As I said, counseling is not an option. It's been 5 months since D-Day and 4 months since our last MC together. When MC ended, he said we could "work it out on our own, you just need to be patient and I will try to make these changes for you." After 4 months, I am reluctant to believe that these changes are going to happen. I bring it up once every 2-4 weeks, that nothing has changed, and he keeps saying I need to be patient.

Any advice or comments would be most appreciated! I don't want this marriage to end, but I am feeling more and more like he doesn't love me enough to help us heal. I can't move forward until I feel that he is on board.

hss

Yep, you gotta work on you. From what you wrote, he isn't ready for recovery yet. True recovery means he w/b all over you in a truly earnst effort to regain your trust. If you feel you are working and he is skating by, then something is wrong.

Don't settle for less. Even your SF is not fulfilling if you know in the back of your mind he isn't putting 100% into the M.

NOTE: Women often achieve their greatest SF 1st with the mind, then the body. Maybe not all women but many of them.

So the rest of your M isn't all that great like with most of us in recovery. When the xWs feels he can get the BS to settle for less that what it s/b, he feels he is getting a bargain and the BS feels like she is getting ripped off.

Sound familar?

Go get your refund. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Go get your refund. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you, Orchid. You are right, I think.

Now, how do I get my refund? I just don't know what my next move is. I know it's not talking about it. We've talked it to death, and nothing has changed. I've tried everything, I think. I've met all of his emotional and physical needs - he even says this is true. I don't withhold sex, emotional intimacy, etc. I've really given it my all even though I was reluctant to do so.

In the beginning, right after D Day, he got down on his knees and promised me that he would do whatever it took to heal the marriage, as long as I wouldn't leave. (So I stayed.) Right now that seems light years away - that man promising to do whatever it took. It's back to the status quo, and I'm supposed to settle for that AND regain trust/move forward. No can do.

Again, what's my next move? I have no idea. I have thought of saying "we need marriage counseling again, or else" but I hate ultimatums. I have strongly suggested MC, but have been denied.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

hss

My WH is really good at saying all the right things at MC and never following through. He wants time. He makes me impatient. He makes me mad. Of course, he's still in contact and deep fog. Maybe you need to get mad a little.

If possible, keep trying to go to IC. Perhaps that can help you sort things out. Write down what your expectations for your marriage are. Are you together in your marriage for the right reasons? It could be for H, out of sight is out of mind. Are you vulnerable to another A because your issues haven't been dealt with?

HurtingCarol, thanks for your note.

I have gotten mad. I've yelled, I've cried, I've pointed to his huge offense and said "you owe me this." But I've also been calm, been patient, waited, been truly thoughtful and nice to a man who was really not thoughtful or nice to me. Neither approach changes things. That's why I'm not sure what to do.

I am trying to work on me in a couple of ways - in any event I will be a better person as a result, but I don't see it impacting our relationship.

We have both written down our expectations, during MC. We still have those lists on paper. I am meeting all of his expectations and he is meeting very few of mine.

I don't know if we are vulnerable to another affair right now. I have tried putting it in perspective for him, a la: "what if you were very ill physically and emotionally (like my 2nd term miscarriage) and I went out and cheated on you? what would you expect me to do to regain your trust and repair the marriage?" Those conversations go nowhere because he says, "I don't know." I would never cheat on him. But I don't know if he would cheat on me again. For what it's worth, we have been married almost 8 years.

We are vulnerable to divorce in my opinion, if only because I feel he has done almost nothing to help repair our relationship.

I have told him all of this and in return I get shrugs and monosyllabic answers. I am also told that I have a "cake life but am upset because it doesn't have the icing I want." He thinks I should be happy because he makes enough money for me to be a stay-at-home-mom. I'm not sure how this translates into complete marital happiness in his mind, but what it comes down to (for him) is that I am spoiled and that my requests are like the icing on the cake...in other words, nonessentials.

Help!

hss

You are at point where talking is not getting you anywhere. So now is the time to work with your MC (or better yet, call Steve @ MB) and together come up with a plan.

More than likely the WS is getting complacent. He is ok with his environment and expects you to settle for the same. His portion of investment into the M is less than what you were expecting, hence the major disappointment on your part.

The funny thing is that no one else sees he is doing enough. NO one. You need to get those people (MC or Steve @ MB) to stress your point for you. Let them tell him he isn't doing his share.

If he listens to them, you will see benefit. If he doesn't you will know what t/d.

In other words, get some help and do less talking. More watching a bit of reverse babble when he starts talking stupid stuff or not conversing at all.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid, I don't think ANYONE's opinion will make him change. That's why he thinks MC is useless: "how can someone who is a complete stranger help us?" [The ironic thing is that he has a graduate level degree in psychology (research, not counseling).] I would pursue those venues if I thought that others' opinions bolstering mine would make a difference. I know it won't.

He's even at the point where he says, "if you're this unhappy, then maybe I'm not the right man for you. I think lots of women would be very happy in your shoes, and I don't see why you aren't. Your needs are nice-to-haves, not needs."

On top of this, he really wants to make some major life changes that I would be totally on board with IF I felt secure and safe in our relationship. He's frustrated that I'm not interested in moving forward with these life changes, and I've told him that as soon as I feel he is doing his part to repair the damage, consistently, that I will feel secure enough to make major life changes with him. Even this is not motivating to him.

I read the link on reverse babble, and I liked it. Thanks for the suggestion.

My issue is with day-to-day stuff. I pretend everything is okay because I want to present a united front for our son. Then after our son goes to sleep, I shut down emotionally and the anger that has been building wells up. I squelch it most of the time, and spend time with my husband, but some of the time it spills over and we end up having an emotionally charged discussion about what is wrong in our marriage. The discussion never yields any results, not even a plan. Any I suggest gets an "I'll try" at best and never a firm commitment.

So...on a daily basis, everything is fine from his POV, but not from mine. He is happy, so we don't have arguments unless I start them. Sigh.

hss

I think I would tell him that I am not happy. Let him know that your needs are your needs, and not his to decide. Explain to him that your resentment is building, and it is not good for your marriage.

Make it short and sweet, and see if he makes any changes. If not, he doesn't care enough about you to meet your needs. Then you will have to decide if you can live the rest of your life like this, or if you need to move on without him.