I'v been doing Plan A for about 3 months, the stress is mostly gone and my wife is more cordial and opening up more but she still wants a Divorce. However she sends me a TON of mixed messages, so I never know where the hell I'm at. Two weeks ago she called me on her cell phone crying uncontrollably and said "I'm sorry I've been so mean to you over the last 3 months, I don't know why I said such mean things to you. Then she said "how could you ever trust me again after what I did to you?"

Then she told me the things she wanted to see from me if we continue the marriage and so on.

After D-Day she said if we go to MC we are going there to get passion back in our marriage. Now she refuses MC and said if we do MC we can do it on our own. I'm sticking with SH every two weeks regardless. If I can't do it with Steve Harley and Gods help then I was doomed from the beginning. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


Yesterday she said she still wants a divorce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'd like to know what everyone did during Plan A to show the WS that you were trying to reconcile the marriage?

I'm currently seeing a IC and SH for guidance in changing my ways and a lot of prayer.

Did you say "I Love You" or "I care for you?"

Household chores? If so, how much?

Any affection shown from you? Hugs, kisses, rubdowns, etc...

Any cards or gifts?

Any notes or letters of affection?

Did you call spouse often on phone or not?

Schedule any dates?

Act as though you were moving on with your life "with or without them."

Always cheerful or just appear normal?

Any ideas would be appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Andrew


PS Did you stay together or get Divorced?

first mistake---plan a is not an act. it is behavior changes that make you more appealing to the spouse. the things that you are doing that make her want to run...ya need to stop them.

all thost post separation dates and relationships you plan/fantasize about having....do you plan on treating them the way you are treating your wife right now or will you be on "good behavior"? think about that a bit.....

Plan A is designed to help stop the affair by making it impossible for your WS to ignore any love they have for you.

It is not an act. You must be consistent in behaviour during and after plan A. Steve is the expert on Plan A. Ask him for a customised guide for your situation.

nikko, why so brutal with me all the time?

I didn't say I was doing these items, I was just asking.

I said before I am only thinking of my wife and no OW. You were right, if I don't give it 100% she will see right thru this. It's hard not having SF in almost 6 months, and knowing darn well it will be a long time before I do get SF. I'm a very sexual person and my mind wanders sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

In my first line I stated I was going to IC, working with SH and praying a lot. This is to change my ways permanently or I know this marriage will fail so why not end it now if I know that I am Acting?

If this marriage doesn't work out then I plan on being the best husband in the future, not some Actor. I never want to go thru this pain again. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks anyways.

TA people treat you varyingly on here IMO because EITHER they think you're a persistent troll and a waste of earnest people's time and effort OR ( frankly) an arrogant and close-minded jerk without any real commitment to the changes required to rescue a broken marriage. Its hard to see ANY penitent or marriagebuilding attitudes in any of your posts.

I won't fight with you TA,though I am still not convinced you're kosher.

All I will say is that you should ask Steve Harley all the questions you ask us on here. HE knows your situation better than any of us and has REAL skills and experience, not just opinion, to apply useful guidance.

Many folks, like me, ask here 'cos we don't have pro M counselling in our own timezone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> It is not an act. You must be consistent in behaviour during and after plan A. Steve is the expert on Plan A. Ask him for a customised guide for your situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I realize I have to be consistent forever or she will see right thru it. I also want her to be consistent and change for me once we get back on track or I'm not staying in this marriage. It take two. She told me the other day our marriage problems were 100% my fault and she is practically perfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I have a session with SH this week. I was going to ask him more about Plan A and to provide me with some sort of checklist, schedule, or plan to follow.

I had a session with SH last Wed but he called in sick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks Bob.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> TA people treat you varyingly on here IMO because EITHER they think you're a persistent troll and a waste of earnest people's time and effort OR ( frankly) an arrogant and close-minded jerk without any real commitment to the changes required to rescue a broken marriage. Its hard to see ANY penitent or marriagebuilding attitudes in any of your posts.

I won't fight with you TA,though I am still not convinced you're kosher.

All I will say is that you should ask Steve Harley all the questions you ask us on here. HE knows your situation better than any of us and has REAL skills and experience, not just opinion, to apply useful guidance.

Many folks, like me, ask here 'cos we don't have pro M counselling in our own timezone. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The last 3 weeks I have been very cordial here, no swearing, ignorant post, etc... I was very emotional for a while but I'm over it. I've apologized at least 15 times.

If you had a chance to read my post over the last 3 weeks you will see I've come a long way in my thinking. I know it will take me a while, I admit I sometimes say the wrong things here, but not to my wife. I've learned to keep my big mouth shut when I'm around her, she has even asked me several times why I'm so quiet. I don't want to say anything negative so I would not rather say anything at all.

I've repented to my wife many times and I took 90% of the blame for our marriage problems. She said I'm 100% responsible.

What time zone are you in? SH works from 6am to 5pm CST. I usually talk to him at 8am.

TA,
Yesterday she said she still wants a divorce.


One way to get through the ups and downs and hearing one thing and then another, it to set your sites on where you want your marriage to be and hold that in your mind.

In your business, I'm sure that you have had plenty of set backs, mistakes and detours. But you kept moving forward learning from each situation, growing into the sucess you are today.

It's hard to not get so involved in the emotional swings because we are dealing with something that touches the core of our being, really our soul.

As far as the questions you asked about, I think everyone is different. You can look at what others have done and use them or discard them. The most important thing is WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR WIFE WANTS? Steve Harley had me fill out the Emotional Needs and Lovebusters Questionaires as I THOUGHT my WH would answer. Not what I would say but what I thought he would want. WH didn't want to participate in counseling so I did it myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I'd like to know what everyone did during Plan A to show the WS that you were trying to reconcile the marriage?

I'm currently seeing a IC and SH for guidance in changing my ways and a lot of prayer.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Prayer works. If God is for you then who could be against you? Go read Lupolady's post in recovery from today.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did you say "I Love You" or "I care for you?"

Any affection shown from you? Hugs, kisses, rubdowns, etc...


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you feel? Do you feel comfortable saying I love you? Does she get upset when you say it? Does she want you to be affectionate or does she back away from it? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

For me, I stopped saying it but wrote letters ( i'll get to below) and signed Love or something similar.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Household chores? If so, how much?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does she like it when you do household chores? I would think so - that it would be deposits in her love bank.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Any cards or gifts?

Any notes or letters of affection?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve suggested to me and I've seen a number of others that wrote letters. Your wife can read without hearing the tone of your voice. It's something that can be savoured and read over and over. It make a big impact on my WH.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you call spouse often on phone or not?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

There is calling and then there is CALLING, which is calling to the extreme. Again does she like it when you call? Or is it better to remain aloof. I talked over things like this with Steve & was very helpful. The way I did things changed over time depending on the circumstances. THere were times Steve suggested I call WH to keep me on his mind, then at other times, I didn't call at all, just let him call me.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Schedule any dates?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sounds like a great idea to me.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Act as though you were moving on with your life "with or without them."

No, not moving on. But maybe a confidence that you will be OK no matter what because you have a God that is bigger than your circumstances. If she thinks you may be ready to move on, that she may pull away. Compare that to telling her that you love her, always will and will never stop praying for her no matter what. ( see rejoice ministries website for many sucess stories doing just that) That way she knows you will always be there for her spiritually. That kind thing sinks deep into one's soul and even though outward appearance don't look hopeful, God is working behing the scenes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Always cheerful or just appear normal?

When you are normal are you not cheerful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any ideas would be appreciated.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Blessings,


D.

<small>[ January 01, 2005, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

TA I'm in England.

I have been offline for much of December so haven;t read much of your stuff. Its not your attitude to other MBers that is so odd, TA its the wholly unjustified swagger that drips from your most of your posts. You just don't seem a very humble, or nice person much of the time.

Like I said, I won't fight you, but I felt you deserved a view as to why you get occasional 'brutal' responses.
All blessings

Darn,

My quotes are in the wrong place in my post above & can't seem to get them right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Right now I
m too tired to go back through again to try to straighten it out.

D.

Thanks WillGetThruThis,

Great idea about me completing her ENQ. I completed one for myself and gave it to her. She threw it back in my face and said "this is what everyone wants." Well guess what, she wasn't meeting my EN's either. She said she was perfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I asked her to complete the ENQ so I could start meeting those needs. She said "it's too late, we had our time. Let's just say it was a good 27 years and remain friends." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> TA I'm in England.

I have been offline for much of December so haven;t read much of your stuff. Its not your attitude to other MBers that is so odd, TA its the wholly unjustified swagger that drips from your most of your posts. You just don't seem a very humble, or nice person much of the time.

Like I said, I won't fight you, but I felt you deserved a view as to why you get occasional 'brutal' responses.
All blessings </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I've been humbled and I'm trying to be a nicer person. I grew up with a mentally abusive father and I worked at the Chicago Mercantile trading futures where you have to be tough or the traders will eat you up.

I'll go back and reread my post from the last 3 weeks and see if I have changed.

I go to England, France, Ireland, and Spain often. Maybe I'll hook up with you sometime and have a pint. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

have a pint Sho' nuff TA. Happy to. Ping me on your next trip !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Great idea about me completing her ENQ. I completed one for myself and gave it to her. She threw it back in my face and said "this is what everyone wants." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure it is, but sometimes the most basic things are the most important. So maybe that's a clue - she wants it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Well guess what, she wasn't meeting my EN's either.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not surprising. However if you make it about her in plan A, you have a much better chance of getting your needs met at some time. It can get to you if you let it, thinking you are doing all the giving and they are doing all the taking. Marriage isn't always a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes is 99 - 1 or 1 - 99.

No matter what happens if you stay on course, you will be so much better no matter what happens in your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
She said she was perfect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe she is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I asked her to complete the ENQ so I could start meeting those needs. She said "it's too late, we had our time. Let's just say it was a good 27 years and remain friends." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They ALL say that kind of stuff. Are you going to let that get to you? Just keep on the path, keep doing the deal.

THere's a saying that "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today" Accept your wife and your marriage today as exactly where it should be. Accept that you can't change her but may compel her to change bychanging you. You are the only one that you have control over. So, what are you going to do with your life? Are you going to let circimstances rule you or create the circumstances you want????

D.

Thanks again.

I realize that I will be fighting a tough uphill battle for a while. In addition I know she will most likely not fulfill any of my EN's. She is very, very stubborn.

Someone here said yesterday that I'll be fighting this battle alone and it will be tough.

I keep thinking that my wife is in a coma and it is up to me to get her out of this. I know that the only control I have is over me, that's it. It does me absolutely no good to dwell on changing her. Hopefully if she decides to stay in the marriage she will change because she has seen changes in me.

TA - I haven't responded to you, but have been reading your posts. Glad that you are counseling with Steve. What exactly are the changes you have made since D-day?

I just had a peep at this thread and want to jump in and say that I think Plan A is an act. Especially at the beginning. When you have just been lied to, cheated on and discovered the most dreadful thing has happened to you, most people's gut reaction is exactly the opposite of Plan A. However, the hope is that with time, the actions that are initially contrived, become natural and 'the norm' in your M. But I really believe it starts as an act. Most people have settled into patterns of behaviour in their M that are hard to change. But that is not to say it is impossible to change.

Think of it in terms of your kids. If they lie to you (consistently) or deceive you, would you Plan A them or would you punish them. If you have talked about wrong-doing in the past and then your children persist in their behaviour you would punish them.

It's all rather strange. Some can do it and some can't. I'm with Lemonman on this one. Just couldn't keep being nice to the man and getting nothing in return. It definitely needs a time limit.

TA, I have to admit to having about reached my limit with attempting to help you. Here you are, starting YET another thread, asking pretty much the same questions again and relating the same information that you've stated on previous threads.

To what end?

TA, I took a lot of my time to try to compose a helpful post you to help get you started. But here you are, having totally ignored that post (not so much as a mention of even having taken the time to read it), and your back to "posting square one again." No comments. No follow-up questions. No nothing.

TA, I, for one, simply don't have the time to try to follow all of your various threads, much less to rehash the same questions again.

PLAN A - It is described in detail on this Website. Try reading it. I suggested a book, Magnificent Marriage, for you to read, but it too was ignored. So far as I know, since you've made no comments about it, I also assume you have ignored any reading of that Bible you purchased.

TA, I truly wish you well, but it seems even the proverbial "MB 2x4" isn't strong enough to break through your mental fog and get you to read, understand, and APPLY the things that would help you and your situation.

Sorry, but being a former lifelong Chicagoan myself, I fully understand the adage "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

I hold out hope for you, but the way you are going I don't see a "pretty end" to your situation. This is one instance where YOU cannot control things. Your wife is calling the shots and either you change and become the sort of husband she has always wanted, or plan on spending the rest of your life hooking up with all those women who keep "hitting on you."

Your lack of patience is astounding, but even more so is your unwillingness to surrender to God.

By the way, have you ever heard the "definition of insanity?"

ForeverHers,

Please let me explain why I have not yet responded to your excellent post in my other thread. I have read your post over and over and it is finally starting to sink into my thick skull. It was perhaps the most inspiring post I have ever read.

Everytime I read your post I get more and more out of it. I am finally starting to realize what you meant about the "trust" part. I have been typing my thoughts in Microsoft word and when I am finished within 24 hours I will copy and paste in that thread.

I need your help, please. You keep me going just like Steve Harley does. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My wife went to church with me today for the first time in one year, I was truly thankful to God that she is back. I prayed for a long time and so did my wife. She even went to communion which I thought she wouldn't. She said she would continue to go until we Divorce as a show of support to the children. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Even if she is going for the wrong reason, I hope she can see the light and try and work on this marriage. I can only control myself so I've placed my trust in God.

Please accept my apology. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

TA-

I have told you a few times that you remind me of myself. I was a headstrong Sicilian businessman who could be ruthless when dealing in business or my personal life. I am a very sexual person myself and I had sex with my XW 4X in a 3 year spell! I told my wife over and over what my needs were but all they did was make it worse. Now as we recover from HER affairs and HER DIVORCE, I now know why....IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!!

You're frustrated and I understand. My XW asked me for a divorce in 1999 AFTER she ended an affair. I had no idea. I refused her request. In fact I ignored it. Things just got worse for us. I needed to change as did she. I promised I would, that I WAS CHANGING, but I now know I was not changing anything GOOD.

My divorce was UGLY. Lot of money and assets involved. When she finally did it I was exhausted from the 5 years of hell I went through. I just wanted it over. So I signed....and I got my SF...from women whom I thought I wanted a relationship with....and it was awful...for me...cause I was still not getting over my XW...for them because they were second best in my eyes...

Do you think that you would still love and WANT your wife no matter what? Not the initial fury of finding out something but DEEP DOWN??? I told her, the morning after I knew someone spent the night with her...."it's always on the table...you and I.........you know where I am at"....it took 6 months for her to hear it. almost a year to do anything about it...

I love my XW...and we're trying and it's brutal...(I can relate to how Bob Pure feels when he says he just has bad days)....but all in all I love her no matter what. I won't allow her do walk all over me again...and she knows that. I think that is what you need to do; seek out why you behave the way you do....and change it....

my XW told me she saw me differently when I treated her nice...no matter what she did after the divorce....cause she knew I did not have to...I wanted to....and deep down...I saw she was miserable....and I did not get it...she got everything she wanted...her house...her boys...and her divorce.....

Take time TA....and get to know yourself and how others see you..and change..I'm not sure that SH can do that for you...only you can....

I rambled her a bit but I hope that I make some sense and can be of some help...if I offended you I apologize.....good luck....