I just found out that my STBXW never really instituted the NC policy with the OM she ended up moving in with. Lately she has been hinting that she wants to try and get back together. I believe that she will crack before the D is finalized and really start to press the issue.

The thing is that right now she is doing the things that I told her would be necessary if she ever wanted to make me feel safe enough to give her another chance. The correspondence I found between her and the OM was dated almost six months ago and I have no idea if she is still in contact with him or not. At that time neither of us was really working on our M, but I could tell from reading that they had been in contact with each other for some time.

I will need to bring this issue up if I decided to go any farther into R with my W. When I tell her what I know about her contact am I obligated to tell her how I found out? She will have no way of knowing how I came across this information but may ask me how I know. Is it important that I tell her?

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: starman ]</small>

NO

She has demonstrated that she cannot be trusted so why should you give up a source of confirmation of her 'stated' honesty. Now I assume she has responded or told you something different from what you found out 6 months prior.

For any possible recovery there has to be NC, honesty, and a willingness to work at it and to show your BS that you can be trusted, just to start, if its not there why would you want to.
You need to be comfortable if the 6 months is a acceptable time or not based on what you were told of course.

Do you put all recovery on hold, perhaps continue with 'little' steps in the Dv or proceed with the non legal things like community property negotiations etc etc that sort of thing to show her you are serious???? ..

Maybe let HER run around and PROVE she can be trusted??????

Well so much is dependant on WHAT you were told by her. You dont say if the contact was a once only thing or regular and what was discussed ..... that MIGHT be important.

Ask, see what she says and compare it to her actions.
ONLY YOU can decide what is acceptable.

<small>[ January 02, 2005, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: aussieswife ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Lately she has been hinting that she wants to try and get back together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">??? "hinting" ???

What does this mean, really?

Pep

nope,

don't do it. You show your cards then she just learns where she made a mistake and will cover it up better next time.

She will occasionally say things to me (compliments, I was the only one she ever really loved, that kind of thing). That's all it has been really. I have largely not responded to this kind of thing at all. It has gotten more frequent as the D date gets closer.

I am comfortable with the idea of getting a D at this point. My W has never shown any real commitment to doing the things it would really take to work on our M. I have actually been looking forward to getting this done just so I know what the arrangements with the kids and everything are going to be like.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I posted was just to vent a little. I can't believe how P****D I got when I found this correspondence. Why would that effect me so much now? After all the things I've had to deal with this is really not a big surprise and is pretty minor in the overall picture. Maybe I'm just being jealous.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by starman:

I will need to bring this issue up if I decided to go any farther into R with my W. When I tell her what I know about her contact am I obligated to tell her how I found out? She will have no way of knowing how I came across this information but may ask me how I know. Is it important that I tell her?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My answer would be a yes BUT ONLY AFTER she has established a pattern of being an open book to you not as a sign of submission but as a sign of caring and helping with your personal recovery which she knows will help restore your trust in her.

Never forget that marital recovery can not exist without the rebuilding of trust.

TMCM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by starman:
<strong> ...I am comfortable with the idea of getting a D at this point. My W has never shown any real commitment to doing the things it would really take to work on our M. I have actually been looking forward to getting this done just so I know what the arrangements with the kids and everything are going to be like.

I have to admit that one of the reasons I posted was just to vent a little. I can't believe how P****D I got when I found this correspondence. Why would that effect me so much now? After all the things I've had to deal with this is really not a big surprise and is pretty minor in the overall picture. Maybe I'm just being jealous. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Starman, I too have accepted the fact my M will end in D. I do not need my STBXW back, I do not want my STBXW back, but the thought of her with her boyfriend pisses me off. Ah well. Some day I will get over it, right?

ISBTH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will occasionally say things to me (compliments, I was the only one she ever really loved, that kind of thing). That's all it has been really.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is more of a self-serving remark she is making "You are the only one I have ever really loved". Not much else. It serves HER to say this. Not you.

This is a remark that would indicate some level of interest ---> "What can I do that would make us a married couple again? That is what I want."

Or, you could ask her next time she throws out some sort of a meaningless remark like "I never really loved anyone else but you." ---> You say: "What are you willing to do to stay married to me?"

Pep

Perhaps the reason why it still sets you off is because there is atill apart of you that wants her to say sorry, can we work it out????

So is she still living with her OM dreamboat or did it all fall apart?? I assumed it did from your post.

If so does she want to talk or do you avoid it??

Her R with the OM fell apart a long time ago. It was because he dumped her. When we first started R she told me that she had had a chance to get back with him and she didn't have any desire to do that. She said that she had bad feelings towards him and I took her at her word.

When I read this correspondence I realized that she had been lying. She was actively trying to get together with this guy. He moved pretty far away and she was trying to set up a place in between that they could meet. I guess that's what set me off. She was making fun of this guy because he was at his house trying to talk with her while his pregnant GF was there! I realized that she really hasn't changed at all.

It has been about a year since I have shown any interest in working on things. This contact happened within that time frame so I don't really know if she was in contact with him the whole time or if she started after she had given up hope for us. What it really shows me is that she still has feelings for this guy.

Does that not tell me that she was never really sorry for what she had done? It seems that if she was she would not even want to think about the OM, let alone try and hook up with him.

Well it seems she was having a bet each way in the least doesn't it.

As the Dv is not too far away why beat around the bush? - great Aust saying starman

Just straight out sound her out, see what she responds to, e.g if she comes up with that you are the only one I ever really loved thing....well ask her is she saying that because she just wants a smooth divorce or is she sorry for causing you hurt and pain? If she says yes she is sorry, ask her well what do you want to do to correct that?
At least you are then in no doubt once and for all if she is even proposing a try at R or just wants out as friendly as possible.
Then you can ALWAYS be comfortable that you at least did all you could to save your M and the responsibility is squarely placed upon her.

She sounds very confused.

Starman, I agree with the previous posters. It seems you STBX doesn't get it ... and probably hasn't been put in a position where she has to get it.

My own STBX thought she was going to live happily ever after with her lover. Until I moved out, and she was left on her own. (well if you call me paying all the bills for her being "on your own.) He used her and she calls him a "good man." That's how she feels about this slimey pervert who did webcam shows for her. He's a good man. I on the other hand am poop ... I only supported her and the family for the entire marriage while she stayed home and cultivated her internet friends. OK ... Now I'm venting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It is hell being second choice ... that has been my role in my marriage for a long time ... sometimes even lower than second.

Aussie said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For any possible recovery there has to be NC, honesty, and a willingness to work at it and to show your BS that you can be trusted, just to start, if its not there why would you want to?

Maybe let HER run around and PROVE she can be trusted?????? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like what Aussie said, but for some reason I don't think your WW thinks she has to prove anything.

Pep hits it on the head again...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is more of a self-serving remark she is making "You are the only one I have ever really loved". Not much else. It serves HER to say this. Not you.

This is a remark that would indicate some level of interest ---> "What can I do that would make us a married couple again? That is what I want."

Or, you could ask her next time she throws out some sort of a meaningless remark like "I never really loved anyone else but you." ---> You say: "What are you willing to do to stay married to me?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is committing to do nothing. Always just saying what she wants, but not what she'll do. I guess all these WW are the same ... mine, yours, Bob's, ReniassanceMan, MIF?,...etc. Never asking what they can do.

I see my STBX for awhile on New Years eve ... and she's dressed in her finest garage cleaning clothes, sans makeup or jewelry. But she was always made up nice for HW Steve,(the good man) while they did their webcamming and for the clandestine hotel visits. Those things all show us something don't they Starman? No real effort at anything.

As Pep says: it is all self-serving for the cheating spouse.

Watch her actions. Check her honesty. You are living with the white elephant if you do anything less.

<small>[ January 02, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

I can't believe the effect finding these pages of the chatroom conversations between my STBXW and the OM is having on me right now.

Reading Bob Pure's thread prompted me to write because I am feeling so many of the same things he is right now. This after two years! Finding out how much she still cares about this guy after all this time has really got me messed up. Why would she even print out something like this? How long does a WS harbor these feelings for the OP?

She never read SAA or anything that would give her a perspective on why she feels the way she does. Do some WS refuse this because they don't want to have there fantasy blown up? I remember reading a couple of threads a while back about WS and how reality hit them when they learned about the nature of A. I really wonder if this would have an impact on her at all.

The OM lives in another state now and there is not a chance of them being able to get back together. Isn't she damaging herself by not being able to let this go? WOW, what a scatterbrained post, sorry!

delete

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: starman ]</small>

oops.

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: starman ]</small>

Her A makes her feel "special" .... hence her reluctance about reading reality-based-affair books, like SAA.

She's lost right now. Sorry.

Pep

Thanks Pep. You are right about that. She joined me in enough MC sessions to realize the importance of NC. I'm sure this was a big reason why our R never got off the ground. What a waste of time that was!

Hi starman:

"What it really shows me is that she still has feelings for this guy."

What it reallly shows *me* si that she can't delve particularly deeply in2 her own psyche - it would be 2 painful for her. So she goes back 2 her drug of choice. Does it make sense? of course not. But only she can come 2 that realization.

Some people waste their whole lives avoiding consequences because they view them (if they let themselves even be aware of them) as punishment. They can't see the liberating quality of gritting one's teeth and accepting what's happened as a painful part of their personal growth process.

I don't know, starman. If it were me in your shoes, I'd tell her what you know and how you found out. What have you got 2 lose? Your M? It would be a ges2re of radical honesty on your part, and since the stakes aren't high (you're proceeding with the DV), it might be a worthwile one, 2.

best,
-ol' 2long

That's an interesting idea 2long. I certainly wouldn't have a problem telling her. Why would you suggest that? Do you think I should talk to her about it to see if I can help in someway?

starman:

Ultimately, what I THINK isn't nearly as important as what you think and want.

I don't know whether you should tell her or not, but it's probably what I'd do in that si2ation.

If you do, I'd be ready 2 talk things over with her and perhaps try 2 help her out *if* she's interested in your "help." I suspect she'll be angry, though. She might not be ready for help at this time.

-ol' 2long