I don't dislike what you had to say. It might be the right thing to do. For whatever reason (I'm actually not sure), that sounds way too scary at this point. But I will ponder what you said. Thank you.

Froz.... I'm a Mom ... if your Mom is a good Mom, she'd want to be able to hold & comfort you today.

Pep

Pep,

I wish my mother and I had that kind of a relationship. Your child is fortunate.

Froz:

"My deceptions to my co-workers and clients, a lot of whom are friends, also, are done with the sole intention of protecting myself and my privacy."

Apologies 2 those who've seen me post the following quotes before (many times!), but in cases like this I think they're very helpful 2 keep in mind:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.


The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

Froz, keeping secrets from your loved ones about what's happened 2 you and why you're behaving the way you are will burn you up from the inside out. Disclose. Your H has left it up 2 you, so I think the best thing for you 2 do is 2 read up on disclosure on this site and do so sooner rather than later in a firm, but love-based manner. Wouldn't it be better for you if you were able 2 tell people that you M'd your H in spite of what had happened because you believe in him and he's shown a remarkable degree of remorse and recommitment, rather than "pretend" that things have always been wonderful when they haven't?

Also, since the OW's H has had an A of his own (thinks he "deserves" his W cheating on him), he's not much of an ally in your cause here. I would insist that your H or the OW leave their job if that's at all possible, and reveal the A 2 their employer and ask that they be assigned 2 different areas if it's not. Do not underestimate the potential threat 2 your M that 1.5 years of attachment can cause.

-ol' 2long

Froz... 2Long gave you awesome advice... please read it several times.

And, just so you know, if my daughter dropped 20 pounds mysteriously, I'd worry she might have a disease, like cancer or something!!!!

Pep

Pep,

I couldn't agree more. Already reading it again and considering printing for further scrutinization. It will probably take me a long time to absorb it enough to conjure a reply.

Originally posted by 2long:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really do believe that this statement applies to the majority of the people I have not revealed my situation to. These would include clients, who, as their hairdresser, I have a "personable" relationship with. I feel it unneccessary and unprofessional to share this information about my private life with them-10 or so times daily, no less. But I still felt dishonest when they asked questions about my wedding and such. I think this would also apply to co-workers. I do consider the people I work with my friends, but it is also a business relationship, particularly since I own the salon I work at. As their superior, again, it seems unprofessional.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may be disillusioning myself, but the only person I see who this information could potentially have a negative effect on is myself. And I believe that the negative effect would be greater if I revealed this to my family. Unfortunately, I do not have the kind of relationship with my family where I feel safe to disclose this and still be accepted and not judged.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wouldn't it be better for you if you were able 2 tell people that you M'd your H in spite of what had happened because you believe in him and he's shown a remarkable degree of remorse and recommitment, rather than "pretend" that things have always been wonderful when they haven't?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer to that is a fearful and emphatic "NO". The few times I ventured out on a limb and disclosed this information (3 times) I have regretted it each time, for various reasons. I guess I just don't feel like I have anyone that I feel safe enough to disclose to, which is precisely what led me to this forum.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, since the OW's H has had an A of his own (thinks he "deserves" his W cheating on him), he's not much of an ally in your cause here. I would insist that your H or the OW leave their job if that's at all possible, and reveal the A 2 their employer and ask that they be assigned 2 different areas if it's not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is a fact that he is NOT an ally. I initially tried that route, and it caused MAJOR problems because his WW was still being dishonest with him about some of the facts. He was highly enraged and causing problems at work for everyone involved. Including prompting several phone calls from OW to me. I refused to give her the satisfaction of conveying whatever it was she wanted to say to me. I thought it ludicrous for her to call me, particularly when we've never met or spoken. These events were followed by a phone call from the employer to my H requesting that all parties have no further contact. MORE PRESSING TONIGHT is the dilemna of his returning to work tomorrow---12 more hours. I think I explained previously that this is a complicated issue because of my H's looming deployment in 2 months. The two of us have been grappling with this and checking for new posts hoping to find some sort of clear-cut answer on what to do about this because we are both torn, at a loss, and running out of time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do not underestimate the potential threat 2 your M that 1.5 years of attachment can cause.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not take this statement lightly. Thanks for the advice, and for your help.

Froz,

I've been reading your sitch and just so you know I'm a fellow BS. My WW has been having an A for only about 3 months now, but it's not a soulmate issue, in fact she is on her OM#2 currently.

I would agree with others that it is very, very fortunate for you that you H has completely come out of his fog and taken responsibility for his actions. He is disgusted, and disgraced by himself. This will probably eat at him for a long time. Count yourself blessed.

You obviously know your family better than any of us here. So I guess if you don't feel like you have that kind of relationship and they won't support you than don't do it. You need a support group right now, and if your family can't or won't I say don't. Course I could be wrong since I'm a newbie.

Unfortunately, I do not have the kind of relationship with my family where I feel safe to disclose this and still be accepted and not judged.

Why do you feel like you'll be judged, you didn't do anything wrong in my eyes. Sure you married your H before you two worked out the issues that caused the A. I'm would not and could not judge you for that, as last time I checked there was only one man a long, long time ago that was perfect. Give yourself a break on this issue, if it is an issue for you. You did nothing morally wrong!! Course I'm probably a little baised being a BH.

Here's my two cents. Don't beat yourself up for the next two months at which time your H is at work POSSIBLY with OW. Both of you HAMMER out the best plan A you can. Basically this is fairly easy for you. Sit back and let your FWH wait on you hand and foot he's a FWH but still that requires that his actions show you he's changed. It seems your H already wants to do this. Anyway back to my point, you can't help the next to months about work. What you can control is all the other time.

1. Your H tells you immediatley if OW is seen or even smelled <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2. Your H gives cell records, a daily schedule, calls you from work # many times a day, is home immediately from work.

3. Start spending all your time off from work together! If I were you I'd take every weekend together ALONE. I was in the Marines and left for long deployements so I know what your in store for. Start spending 15+ hours a week alone, plus don't forget the weekends!!

After the next 2 months, I'm sure that your H's A is going to die anyway. 12-18 months without seeing him will do that, granted that means he cannot receive correspondance from her. If that is done, I'm sure it will be over between them.

Just a few of my rambling thoughts,
Native

Frozen,

The issue of telling other people often gets confused in discussions on this board. Harley believes and surely the experience here shows that disclosure of the A to family and friends often helps stop the A. But, if the A has stopped the need for disclosure goes away with regard to dealing with the affair. HOWEVER, it does not go away if you need support and you cannot get enough from your H.

The job situation is very difficult, but given that he will be gone in two months and given what he has said on his on thread, I would be inclinded to continue with it but with really strong agreements with regard to accountability. That is especially true during lunch and other activitities. It will require some very clever ideas on the part of you and your H.

This may sound odd right now but he can be your ally because it really is going to fall to him to regain your trust and love. He has a vested interest and even further OW will be out of his life even further in two months. From teh sounds of it her H will also keep her on a short leash so I would not be so worried about work as you are.

It is a concern, but perhaps not as much of one as you think, since management knows, you know, her H knows, and your H states he has no interest in contact with her. Trust by verify. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Originally posted by Just Learning:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The job situation is very difficult, but given that he will be gone in two months and given what he has said on his on thread, I would be inclinded to continue with it but with really strong agreements with regard to accountability. That is especially true during lunch and other activitities. It will require some very clever ideas on the part of you and your H.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't see any way to be completely accountable. He is quite smart and equally as crafty. Maybe all I did was teach him how to lie better. All I will know is the same thing I knew before- what he tells me and nothing more. I find it really unfair that I am being put in this position.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> your H states he has no interest in contact with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He also stated that we had the perfect relationship, all his needs were being met, that he wanted to marry me, that he went to work to actually WORK and other endless lies.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He also stated that we had the perfect relationship, all his needs were being met, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a pretty scary sentence.

Pep

I agree.

Do you think he was being truthful, or was he trying to butter you up with compliments? Thinking that if he tells you how great you've been, you won't kick him out...

If he can cheat while having ALL his needs met ... and while he is perfectly HAPPY ... well ... then it is totally a character issue, in my opinion.

Pep

I'm not convinced he was being truthful when he told me all his needs were being met. A new revelation to me is that he has issues confronting me about anything. He is really good about telling me what he thinks I want to hear, which is making the journey to trusting him now that much more difficult. I don't know how to distinguish what's real from what's not, or what's truthful from what isn't. This is really hard. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I do know that I love him very much and I believe he is worth the chance. Why does everything have to be so d**** complicated? (rhetorical)

Froz honey, you may also want to reflect on why you took marriage vows in the midst of all your doubts, hurt, and confusion.

When you went ahead with the wedding, you may have given your husband a mixed message... indicating that you are OK with cheating, that cheating is not a big enough violation for you to NOT marry him... do you understand what I said in my clumsy way?

Are you a conflict avoider too?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
Froz honey, you may also want to reflect on why you took marriage vows in the midst of all your doubts, hurt, and confusion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I took your advice and reflected on this...Why? I do love him very much. I was committed to him and that fact hadn't changed because of d-day in that in my heart I had already promised to love him "for better or worse". A strong sense of loyalty to him, is what I'm trying to say. That probably would have been different if he hadn't stated from the very beginning that he was completely willing to end the A and shown so much remorse and desire to commit to our relationship. Another reason is that I think he is worth it. He is a wonderful person to be around and I felt a strong connection to him from the beginning. Powerful for me. Another reason is that it felt like a new start. A HUGE reason, and one that has complicated everything is his deployment. If it weren't for the deployment, I probably would have pushed the date back. Since the deployment WAS a factor to consider, I felt scared that if we didn't have the "bond of marriage" I would get over him while he was gone in my desperation to heal. I didn't want to lose him. I know my children don't want to lose him, either. And what if, despite the hard road I know it will be, we come out better on the other side? Won't it have been worth it? I don't know if this pain is worth anything, really, but here I am, nonetheless, now faced with the decision to work dilligently on a marriage with him, or move on to heal on my own (does seem safer, knowing at least what to expect). So far I choose work dilligently with him. As long as his actions display that he wants that as much or more than I do, I will. He may not be deserving of that opportunity, but hopefully he sees it for what it is...my gift.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you went ahead with the wedding, you may have given your husband a mixed message... indicating that you are OK with cheating, that cheating is not a big enough violation for you to NOT marry him... do you understand what I said in my clumsy way? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I understand. I hope that he doesn't, even on a subconscious level, consider that the message I was sending. I am not OK with it, it IS a big enough violation for me to NOT marry him. He is very lucky it didn't go the other way. If he crosses any of the boundaries I've set...I will not even consider remaining in this marriage. I guess, perhaps, I need to boldly define these boundaries to him so that he knows that they are more than just NC. That is the only one I have made clear. The others are implied. I will not waste my time trying to repair a marriage he is responsible for damaging. I will work jointly with him, but I will not work alone. If that becomes the case, I would rather have my efforts go towards MY healing, rather than ours.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you a conflict avoider too?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In intimate relationships, no. I can be quite confrontational. In all other relationships, most definitely.

P.S. How do we arrange this "adoption" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">P.S. How do we arrange this "adoption"? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Easy, we already have 2 adopted kids. I'll put in a call to our adoption social worker. He's experienced making all the arrangements ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I did not realize you have children. How old are your kids?

Pep

Hey Froz:

I have not posted to you, but saw that H (Patriot) has made a desision on your future together. Congratulations! We realize that you two still have work to do; but it looks like priorities are now in order to help ensure a successful marriage from this point on. Good Luck.

FR

I have a daughter (almost 17) and a son (almost 15). Patriot has a son (6) who lives with his mother but visits often.

Fishracer,

I'm truly grateful for your assistance in bringing that process about.