For those of you not familiar with my sich. D day Sept 26, WH having EA. I made him call her and tell her he was married (she didn't know). WH moved out Oct 26 to get some "space" and time to decide if he loved me or not. Supposedly NC except he still has her info in his email address book, and has searched the web to get her home address (he doesn't know it). He no longer wears his wedding ring, goes out with single male friends. Only spends time with me and kids at my request. Did go on AD's and is getting IC. Keeps telling me he needs more time to figure this out. According to him he has been muddling through for the past few years. Over the past three months I have giving him the time but perhaps not the space, because I continue to make contact. I have been trying to plan A him. Lots of love, home cooked meals, great SF, stroking his ego with how great he is, apologies for my part of the problems in our relationship. Spent the holidays with us like everything was normal and has now withdrawn back into his misery.

He still gives me nothing....No apology for the EA, no mention of any kind of positive feelings towards me, no talk of what he needs in order to feel good about our relationship. Even when I ask him direct questions he just looks at me blankly. Last night I asked him if it would be helpful to him if I just stopped all contact for awhile. He literally stuttered and couldn't get an answer out. Finally he said "Do what ever you want".... Why can't he tell me what he wants???? I have told him over and over again, if he wants out I will give him the divorce. Anyone else with a spouse who wants the divorce but can not bring themselves to be the one to say it and file?

Is it possible for WS's to be so incredibly out of touch with their feelings? I almost feel as if this is pathological. He is not thinking about me at all in any of this. How do I let go, why do I continue to let him treat me this way? Ladies especially....how do you move on? I know that I am smart, attractive and a good person. Why am I letting someone obviously devoid of any compassion for me make me feel so worthless? He wants more time and I am dying in the meantime. How do I cut loose, at least for another 30 days?

Seems kind of soon the be making that kind of decision. But this is your choice and only you know how much you can take, hon.

Maddy, I keep telling myself that over and over. Why would I want to get a divorce when he is asking for more time? I just need some kind of hope to cling to and he gives me zilch. Just ice cold "Go take a pill and I hope you get a good nights sleep". I just don't understand how anyone can be so clueless to what they want and I don't know if there is any hope that someone at my WH's stage can ever come back to love. Can they? It might seem like a short time, but he hasn't been expressing his love for me for a very long time, years before the EA I have been doubting his love for me and hoping that he would do something that showed me that I did mean something to him....instead he has an EA.

Anyone in recovery have a WS that never responded with any love just wake up one morning and go "God I love my wife, I better call her right now and tell her".

Don't file for divorce unless it is exactly what you want, and you've been feeling that same way for more than a few months.

If you feel right now that divorce would "solve the problem" ---> ask yourself "What problem is going to be solved by divorce?"

If you want a divorce "to end all this pain" ---> sorry*** wrong answer.

Divorce will not end all your pain and confusion. Divorce is NOT a way to avoid conflict and pain.

If you want a divorce because "This isn't going anywhere after 3 months." ---> sorry, wrong answer.

You do not divorce because you lack any vison of any other solution.

You choose divorce because it is THE BEST option available to you after long and careful consideration.

No impulse decision to divorce is a good decision.

Pep

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Hello, I’m a reformed FWS. You asked . . .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong> Anyone in recovery have a WS that never responded with any love just wake up one morning and go "God I love my wife, I better call her right now and tell her". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It really didn’t happen exactly that way with me, but I did have an epiphany and finally remembered that, at one time, I had tremendous feelings for my wife; that I loved her deeply when I married her, and that I truly wanted to feel that way about her again.

Marriage really is a lot of work and I think most of us or woefully unprepared for it. We hear that if you really love someone that is all that you need . . . what a bunch of bunk. Love really is a choice; it is a life-view. The butterflies and the lust one feels early in a relationship isn’t love. Love is more like holding your wife’s hair out of the way while she pukes and taking down the stocking from the shower curtain for the ten-thousandth time. Love, at least to me, is putting someone’s welfare and happiness, not necessarily above your own, but at least on the same level. (I don’t know why I’m tell you this, I guess I’m really speaking to myself here)

I guess I’m trying to say the feeling can come back, mine sure did. I am extremely blessed that she was there waiting for me. She had every reason to leave . . . I was behaving like a total pig. She is a professional and didn’t need me for financial reasons, she is very pretty, gets hit on all the time, and she could have easily replaced me. She didn’t. She loves me even after all the stuff I put her through. Now if that realization isn’t humbling, I don’t know what is. I have a lot to learn about love from my wife.

Comfortably... Do you think during your time away (if you were separated), that having no contact with her made it easier or harder to find those feelings? I don't want to force feed my WH anything, but I don't want to LB him either. I am so afraid that if I give him too much space he will perceive it as an OK to go on with his "finding himself", which would include other women.
I find my "addicted" to him just as most WS's are addicted the the OP. I try so had not to call him, but end up finding the most trivial reason to make contact. Problem is that he is less than pleasant some times and I keep getting hurt my his indifference. I keep beating my head against this cross I am carrying with the words "but I love him" carved in it.
How long did it take you to realize that love wasn't about the butterflies , and that another person wasn't the answer.

Anyone ele have experience with a emotional desert spouse? I know that I can't change him, and the hardest part about it is that he is a good man. Anyone know much about Narcissim?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am so afraid that if I give him too much space he will perceive it as an OK to go on with his "finding himself", which would include other women.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not aware of how controlling this sentence is, I'll bet.

You cannot NOT give him "space" ... because he owns himself. He is free to do what he wants irregardless if you hold him near to you.

Pep

PB...I know and I understand that. I have told him that I can't control him and he is going to do what ever he wants regardless. But I do not want to do something that he will perceive as contradictory to love. What I mean is that if I back off (give him space)will he think "well she must not really love me, so why do I even give her a second thought" God does that sound pathetic or what!!!
Sometime I don't realize how much I have let him determine my worth until I say something like that. And maybe thats part of the issue...I have become pathetic in his eyes as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone ele have experience with a emotional desert spouse? I know that I can't change him, and the hardest part about it is that he is a good man. Anyone know much about Narcissim?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi WWH,
You said you see similarities in our situations, and then ask about Narcissism.

That's scary stuff.

Yes, I have experience with a spouse that can be emotionally void (other than the anger that I've talked about).

I recognized a long time ago her inability to feel empathy.

Let's put it this way: what I've read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder hits too close to home.

Borrowed from mentalhealth . com:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Underneath it all is a serious self-esteem problem, and the prognosis is poor...

In describing some of my WW's behavior, a psychiatrist acquaintance of my family said "Run away from her as fast as you can. She will never change."

I'm still here, though...

Tqt...I too had my own IC say something like that.
So how are we supposed to do that?? The time and love we have invested? All for what? Growth?
My WH has been described by his own friends as "boring". He rarely lets lose. Doesn't want to mess his hair up ya know. He loves talking business and success. Gets down when he sees others succeeding more than himself. Never says I am sorry, or admits someone elses ideas might have some merit. Thinks my blue collar family is dysfunctional. I can't imagine that I...high school salutorian, attractive, good shape, active, great cook...could get sucked into letting someone else make me feel whether I am worthy or not. I realize this is my own self-esteem issue and I need to find a way to break the cycle quick. Sometimes I wish I would find someone to make me believe in myself and forget my WH..but that is just perpetuating the same problem. I need a mantra to hang on my wall.

All I can say is that at least my WH is getting IC. I just need to realize it may take a lot longer than I am willing to invest. I thought I was married for keeps, but now ask myself at what price. My WH has also decided on his own to go off his AD's, that scares me. But I need to keep telling myself ....I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM, I CAN NOT MAKE HIM CHANGE, FOCUS ON ME, FOCUS ON MYSELF !!!

I will hold your hand and give you encouragement if that will get you through. Spyder says to be a lighthouse for the WS. I think everyone here is my lighthouse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So how are we supposed to do that?? The time and love we have invested? All for what? Growth? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXCELLENT question.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't imagine that I...high school salutorian, attractive, good shape, active, great cook...could get sucked into letting someone else make me feel whether I am worthy or not. I realize this is my own self-esteem issue and I need to find a way to break the cycle quick. Sometimes I wish I would find someone to make me believe in myself and forget my WH..but that is just perpetuating the same problem. I need a mantra to hang on my wall.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as calling your WH and my WW "narcissists" -- let's not even go there.
But, let's say for a second that your WH and my WW exhibit some degree of narcissistic behavior. (We all do, but...)

Having said that... IMO, the spouse of a narcissist has to work overtime (emotionally) to compensate for the self-esteem-trashing behaviors of the narcissist. THEY need constant admiration, stroking of their egos, etc... but they are LOUSY at returning the favor.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will hold your hand and give you encouragement if that will get you through.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks... it's been about 10 months since I held hands with anyone... sorta forgot what it feels like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

tqt, I really want not to think of my WH as a Narcissist. But it helps me justify his behavior. I can not believe any rational healthy person would treat anyone the way he treats me.

One minute I think I am being a better, stronger person who is showing my spouse how much I love them and how much they mean to me, and the next minute I am wondering what type of idiot am I to continue with this degrading charade.

If my WH said tomorrow "I want a divorce" I think I could move on with my life. As you said this sitting and waiting with no movement is excruciating. But I have to remember the only place I have to go is to work and the gym. What is the hurry. It took us three years to decide to get married....I am going to regret this.....Maybe it is worth another 3 to stay together!!!! aAHHHHH. That was almost as bad as
being the kid with the apple on his head!!