Patriot:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thank you for your input, but I don't see "stop reading the other book" as a constructive remark. I don't believe you to be a "Harley Lackey", but it is quite possible that I have read somethings in that book that have served me well up to now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fair enough about the book you're reading. Point taken. I have no idea what a "Harley Lackey" is, but assume it has something to do with being a "backer" of sorts. Truth is; Steve Harley has made some decent money from me during my situation. And it was money well spent. Was not able to save my M; but certainly helped me understand my role in the debacle. Other than that; I have no other tie to him or any member of his family. This site is owned by the Harleys and from what I've read and understood from church-members & friends; their system is the best for saving marriages.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I discussed this situation with the VP of HR and we talked about me resigning or staying. I did cover the initial reason for the meeting, which was to ensure OW knew she had 0 reason to contact me and that this boundary was not to be crossed. Over the morning, I have begun to lean more towards just quit and deal with that. So our discussion(the VP and I) dealt with that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I say that I am lost because of this simple reason.

I see the case for staying and working

I see the case for quiting.

both scenarios come with good and bad. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What compounds the issue is the deployment... if for nothing more than Afghanistan is not exactly South Padre. People are dying there. I am going there. I will serve my country and be proud to do it... but I am human. I have concerns, if not fears, about coming back in a much worse physical condition than when I left. ....notwithstanding the whole never comeback idea. I wear a POW bracelet for a man that never came back. If I had my 'druthers... I would rather stay off someones wrist in the future </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand and agree with all of your concerns which are all valid. War is intimidating, unfair at times, confusing, rewarding, etc. It's the same with life; as you're finding out at a young age. If I may be so bold as to predict the future for a moment. When you're in Afghanistan; you are going to miss Froz like you could never imagine in your wildest dreams. Your memories of her & you and your desire to come home and be with her will sustain you through some unspeakable times. Think about what memories you want to leave with her and take with you in 60 days. I realize that I'm probably twice your age; which really means nothing except this: I've "been there, done that"! I know what regret smells like and it ain't rosy! I know what "what if" really means. Respectfully; you do not yet. Unbelievably; Froz has offered you the most unselfish act that a married person could offer to their mate. If you only knew what I know; this would be the simplest, easiest, most rewarding decision you will ever make in your life. Good Luck P!

FR

I'm in just as difficult a situation as you are in but different. I am the WW, I had the affair, I want my H back, he doesn't want me (well I'm unsure of that) his actions and words are sometimes different or maybe its just my hope and interpretation of them.

Listen to what EVERYONE has posted here on your thread. It is important no matter the cost if you want to save your marriage. Those bills will still be there, those creditors will still be there, you can repair that alot easier later then the end of a marriage.

She has given you a chance, I would give anything to be in your shoes, I have been, I was in "the fog". Now I lost him. Don't screw up on the MOST IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN! There are so many of us that would give anything to be where you are!

DON'T SCREW THIS UP! She loves you enough to stay with you and forgive you, do the right thing before it's to late.

If you go to Afghanastan like fishracer said, what do want to leave her with. Not that we want this to happen but what if you don't get the chance to come back?

God has blessed you with an awesome chance, don't blow it!

SG

Fish - I have a meeting with my boss right now about this very issue but I wanted to address something.

"Harley Lackey" was meant as a somewhat joking remark. I in no way mean to insult anything about Dr. Harley or you. The joke was specifically about your statement read as though the only thin that would fix my marriage is to subscribe to all that is Harley. I didn't believe that is what you meant and I tried to make light of it. Maybe a poor choice.

Hi, patriot92.

I think that you should strongly consider leaving your job immediately, with your wife's approval (of course).

Maybe you have something of value that you can sell that you won't need for a couple of years, and use that money to live on in the interim.

If your affair was for 1.5 years, regardless of the exchange of emotional banter, there is a strong connection between you and the other cheater.

Given time away, your disgust for the other woman will likely take on a more specific nature. Again, right now, your connection to the other woman is still strong, whether you see it or not.

In my opinion, regardless of what you have to do, or what it costs, put substantial distance between you and the other woman immediately.

As for your experience, as long as you can substantiate past projects, it will keep.

Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fish - I have a meeting with my boss right now about this very issue but I wanted to address something.

"Harley Lackey" was meant as a somewhat joking remark. I in no way mean to insult anything about Dr. Harley or you. The joke was specifically about your statement read as though the only thin that would fix my marriage is to subscribe to all that is Harley. I didn't believe that is what you meant and I tried to make light of it. Maybe a poor choice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No prob & no offense taken. Have a good meeting!

FR

well... what a day.

I went to work. Nightmare. Hated the entire day. I did walk around like a covert op guy trying to mot be seen. By anyone. Hide in my cube. Had a meeting with the HR VP. Helpful and defined the NC boundary.... but was referred back to my immediate supervisor on discussions of resignation.

Scheduled that meeting and had it at 3pm. Called froz during lunch to inform her of this and missed telling her it was at 3 specifically, although it was scheduled while I was on the phone with her at lunch and I thought she over heard and that I did tell her. Spent the next 3 hours plastered in my cube while froz was now at work. She called during the meeting(that I was sure she knew about) and I didn't answer my cell. Didn't have it on me. During the lunch call I was outside, freezing to death for 20+ minutes on the phone. Carried it up to my cube and set it on the desk and forgot about it. Stupid. Called her back immediately after the meeting and she was upset. Were have you been? Had that to deal with when we went to our session with C. During that session we talked about my deployment and how we felt about that. Talked about the "were have you been" issue. froz was angry and defensive. I understood and felt terrible.

By the end of the session, the C told us he didn't think he was helping us and told us he would not charge us for the session and that before scheduling another, we should think on it.

So... I went to work and hated it. I tried to stay accountable and failed. Went to MC and he "broke up" with us.

the positive: I did not see OW today nor did I desire to. At all.

now... processing all this whilst I eat dinner and talk to froz.

Patriot:

How goes it today?

FR

I no longer work in the "lion's den". I made my choice and resigned. Maybe a little bittersweet for froz because I did go to work yesterday, but it is done now. There were some things I had not figured out, but I have figured them out now.

So, now to deal with the impact of that. both the good ones and the bad ones.

Thank you to everyone who posted in reference to our situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I no longer work in the "lion's den". I made my choice and resigned. Maybe a little bittersweet for froz because I did go to work yesterday, but it is done now. There were some things I had not figured out, but I have figured them out now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember this date - for it may be the day that you made the best decision of your long life! Congrat's. Froz will respond favorably to this!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, now to deal with the impact of that. both the good ones and the bad ones.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes; deal with the good and bad - "TOGETHER!"

Please stay in touch! Good Luck!

FR

Good Decision~

I wish you BOTH the best of luck. You made the right decision.

{{Hugs to You}}
SG

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by patriot92:
<strong> I no longer work in the "lion's den". I made my choice and resigned. Maybe a little bittersweet for froz because I did go to work yesterday, but it is done now. There were some things I had not figured out, but I have figured them out now.

So, now to deal with the impact of that. both the good ones and the bad ones.

Thank you to everyone who posted in reference to our situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good move.

What you do now is to swallow your pride, and do what you have to in order to provide for your family before you deploy. If that means work at MacDs, then that is what you do.

Right now, there is no more important thing in the world than showing your wife the man she married - the real one. That is the gutsy but vulnerable one.

Be an open book to her. That doesn't mean doormat, but it does mean that if you get hurt in an exchange, you don't get to clam up, you get to say "ouch". If she asks, you answer - honestly.

You can't 'make up' for what you have done. What you can do is make it dead to you and your marriage. That means that whatever parts of you allowed for such behavior, need to be summarily addressed, then extracted so that you can't do it again.

You two can get by all this. It is going to take time. Impatience will only make it harder.

You screwed up soldier. Clean up your mess and don't do it again.

God Bless,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by patriot92:
<strong> I no longer work in the "lion's den". I made my choice and resigned. Maybe a little bittersweet for froz because I did go to work yesterday, but it is done now. There were some things I had not figured out, but I have figured them out now.

So, now to deal with the impact of that. both the good ones and the bad ones.

Thank you to everyone who posted in reference to our situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yesssssssssssssssssss

You 'da MAN !!!!

Pep

Cna i make a suggestion?

How about registering with a Temp Agency? They have ones specifically dedicated to different careers...engineers, IT, other computer thingies, medical personell, etc etc.

Seems like this would be ideal for you right now.

If I may, I would like to 'publicly' thank you for your choice. It makes me feel hopeful, valued, and important. It also eases my pain a bit. Thank you for that. I admire the strength that I know it took. I love you.

Your wife

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I may, I would like to 'publicly' thank you for your choice. It makes me feel hopeful, valued, and important. It also eases my pain a bit. Thank you for that. I admire the strength that I know it took. I love you.

Your wife
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW, what a wonderful thing to do and say! Good for you & good for Patriot! Take Care!

FR

welcome. And thank you for the opportunity. It means everything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">welcome. And thank you for the opportunity. It means everything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, Now you two are getting downright sappy!!!

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Patriot,
I am new here and just spent the last 20 minutes reading through this old post you have under "My Story". I have no idea where you are now in your relationship (it is February 16th today, and this post ends in January), but I will continue reading.

My husband betrayed me in late November 2004 by asking to meet with a woman for a sexual encounter. She posts naked pictures of herself on a porn site. She declined as she says she is “happily married”. He has since said he never meant to meet her, only wanted to experience the thrill of getting a response. She is also about 20 years older than he is (he is 36yrs old). There are 2 problems here: his fetish for older women, and his desire to sleep with someone else other than his wife. He says that he never intended to sleep with her and that it is not a fetish. He says that he just finds many types of women attractive. I don't understand this phenomenon, but I think there is something he is not telling me. He also, on the same night and on the same porn site, asked a younger woman in the UK that if he were to purchase and send her some sexy lingerie, would she take pics and post them on the site for him to enjoy. I found out about the Internet fiasco on November 30th, 2004 while I was on holiday in Europe visiting family. I found out by accident as he had forwarded me the e-mail in error. We married in February 2004 and have a 7 month old daughter. We dated for 1 ½ years before we married.

He was distraught. He found Marriage Builders. He begged me to forgive him. He talked about Radical Honesty. Those 2 words are what kept me here. For the first time, he was finally going to be honest with me. I was scared to find out what he had to say, but even though I was furious and wanted out, I also wanted to hear. For the last 2 1/2 years, I have been with a very secretive man. He made me doubt my instincts by trying to make me feel that my "gut feelings" had no basis. Finally, he was going to be honest with me! I so wanted that because I have been trying to "guess" things for so long. Anyway, his past still has some holes, but he has opened up a bit since his indiscretion.

I think he has used the Internet to find women for at least 4 years in the past (at least since 1998 - 2002...possibly longer). My husband and I met through a dating service on the net in April 2002. We met in person on August of 2002. He said it was love at first sight for him. I believe him.

Before me, he used the Internet to date and also to have illicit, sexual chats with women. He has met women on the net just for sex. He uses the net to surf for porn. He communicates with these women. He said what happened in November was a habit of his single days. He says it will never happen again. He also told me that he has slept with 3 much older women in the past. (Maybe more...I don't know if he is telling me the truth). I have also come to learn that in his past, he had slept with at least 18 women before me, (that is if he is telling me the truth). I thought it was only about 6....and even that was too many!!! I was disgusted and so angry and so hurt. He told me he had lied because he feared I would not date him any longer. I am not sure that is the case. I would have been so turned off true, and afraid of diseases and concerned about his ability to be committed and whether he would compare me to all those women. I may have left him....but I am not sure. Had he told me the truth, coupled with the fact that I loved the way he loved me and the way he made me feel, I am not sure I would have left. Instead, he chose to lie and cheated me out of making an informed decision. I have only been with 1 other person, and I had married him in 1993. We divorced in 1998. I remarried my current husband in 2004. I am 39yrs old. I have had opportunities to sleep with other men, but I just don't give myself away so cheaply. Although he had slept with at least 18 women before me, he only had 1 long-term relationship....they lived together for 2 1/2 years. I really don't understand his choices. I called him a slut. I called him lots of names. I hated what he did to me, he lied about so much and now he betrayed me. I have spent so much time thinking what else he has done. Is he still lying to me?

Anyway, there is more to this story, but basically, even before I married him, my gut was telling me there were things he wasn't telling me. Since I found out about what he did, he has come clean about some things in the past.

As I was so angry, I did not want to even look at Marriage Builders. I was ANGRY. Hurt. Devastated. I wanted out. I asked him to leave for a while. He almost did, but then I let him stay. I realized I still loved him.

By then, (only about 1 month later really) so much had happened. I had called him every name in the book. We had horrible fights. Issues with respect to what he did to me this past year came up often - (I was pregnant and we live in the same house with his brother who lives on another floor...his brother basically bossed and bullied us around...my husband did not stand up to him even when I was pregnant, dying of heat, needed air conditioning...that the house has installed...but his brother did not want to turn on because to him, it was not that hot yet and he didn't want to wear socks in the middle of summer. My husband asked me to put up with the heat...even though the doctor warned him that I had pre-toxemia...needed sleep...and I need it to be cool to sleep...get the picture????...he chose his brother over me....he betrayed me then too). …(let me also say that it was hot enough outside, that many of my co-workers and even my parents, who are environmentally conscious and wise with their money…...HAD ALREADY TURNED ON THE AIR CONDITIONNERS…while my brother’s husband refused to). …again….(my husband told me to not be so spoiled and put up with the heat…after all…he could handle the heat….HE WAS NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)…

…can you hear my pain?…this STILL hurts so much….I really felt betrayed….

It was not just about the air conditioner….so many other instances he chose not to confront his brother, but asked me to put up with things. …this is a source of much conflict….and he still hasn’t “gotten it”….that our marriage has boundaries……and he has allowed his brother to cross over. So basically…I am now the “bad one”….the hated one in the family…the reason my husband and his brother have strained relations. They like him. They hate me. His brother has now been able to turn my in-laws against me too. My husband blurted out to his mother in anger what he did to me….as he thought I was going to divorce him. He regrets it now, we both do, but his parents now know. My mother-in-law told me privately that she and her husband were disgusted by what their son did…she wanted details. I told her nothing. I told her that it was up to her son to tell her, if he wanted to. She felt bad for me…but soon in the conversation she had the gall to ask me what I did to cause her son to “communicate” with other women …she accused me of being controlling…or so that is what she “heard”. See why I hate the brother?….he has been such a thorn in our marriage. We were so happy before we moved here. I know he really is not to blame as my husband allowed him to bully us. Nonetheless, he caused much stress and represents so much pain. I can’t get my head around it……maybe one day….I don’t know when…but not now.

Well....all this crap and pain resurfaced after I found out about his Internet solicitation for sex. I brought up the past, his family, his lies, and his sluttish behavior. All of it. Now he is worn out too. He is no longer addicted to Marriage Builders. He no longer has sleepless nights. He no longer walks around like he is dying. He was so terrified of loosing me, now I am not sure what he feels. Look how the tables have turned in less than 3 months - I finally realized I still loved him and am now the one addicted to Marriage Builders while he sleeps soundly. He no longer speaks of Radical Honesty. He does offer to go on Marriage Builders once in a while to read through the concepts with me and he still says he loves me (although it no longer sounds the same as it did when he was afraid of loosing me), and he says he wants to stay with me forever.

Why have I just written all this to you?

Well, I really only wanted to tell you 1 thing:
I feel such a connection to you....and Froz....your wife.

You remind me of my husband....or at least the husband I had about 2 1/2 months ago. He was saying the things you say. He too felt awful - he even went to confession. He cried. He wrote me long e-mails. He was desperate to keep me. But why has he stopped? Or has he?

As for Froz, I know what it feels like to isolate yourself from certain friends because you know that their advice would be to leave the marriage. I have had to do this with my best friend. It has been the most painful thing in the world. I never, ever, ever thought I would choose a husband over my best friend - she is like a sister to me. Not only have I chosen a husband over her, I have chosen a Wayward Husband over her. If he only knew what a sacrifice this is for me. It is unbearable to be separated from her - she got me through the pain of my first marriage and she has made me the person I am today....the person my current husband fell in love with. Yet, in all this, he still has the gall to doubt in my love for him.

Anyway....I am going to follow your story. I wish my husband would post here too. I wish he understood Radical Honesty the way you do. I wish he could understand the pain he caused me the way you seem to understand the pain you caused your wife. I truly believe he did feel sorrow and remorse for what he did and that he no longer wants to do that again (although I am not sure I trust in his ability not to...yet)....BUT....he does not feel my pain the way you feel your wife's pain. You truly know what you have done to your wife, you feel her pain.

My husband feels remorse, but not my pain.

Perhaps all my name calling and put downs and swearing and anger has not helped, but I could not help myself....I had not read the posts on Marriage Builders. I have stopped now, and have promised myself to not do that again, no matter what happens....but....I feel it has affected him...like he feels...."why should I fight to keep her when she has no respect for me...does not trust me....hates my brother....hates and can't get over what I did in my past before I met her...is always looking over her shoulder...and mine....".

..and so on...

Well, I have started to work on me. I no longer pray for God to fix him, I pray for God to fix me. I pray for God to help me be the woman he needs. I know he still wants me...but I know he is afraid of all the fighting and mistrust.

I have read on here and I agree, that the betrayer should take the lead to heal the marriage. You seem to have done this well. Froz? Do you agree? I have been waiting for my husband to be strong for both of us too. I wish he too would take the lead. Sometimes it feels like he is trying, but he is not as motivated as before....or is he? I have no idea, but my gut says he isn't...and my gut is rarely wrong.

In any event, I now pray for strength myself. I pray to become what he needs. To be strong for both of us. To show him that he is safe with me....so that he can learn to show me....that I am safe with him. To remind him of what he had with me - a loving, loyal woman. He always told me I was the perfect woman for him, I want him to remember that. I need to be who I was before I met him....happy.

I know that no matter what happens to me and my daughter, the stronger I am, the happier I am, the better we will be.

So I don't look at loving a betrayer as martyrdom, I look at it as a road towards peace.

Thank you soooooooooo much for posting your story....I will continue reading and I will read Froz's posts too.

All the best,
seeking truth

Thank you for reading my story and taking the time to publish yours. As I read your story, I found a lot of Froz in it, if that makes sense. I will try to talk longer on things you wrote later, but for now I have my head wrapped around an issue or two and I am really exploring some ideas right now. Also, being at work doesn't help much. Again, thank you for your reply.