This hit me out of the blue. I was on a messageboard and someone referred to another poster as "babycakes" and it set me off! That was one pet name that my FOW called me. It made me stop and just break down crying. Just when I think things are safer and more balanced... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm off to bed.

CC

buttercup,-

i am off to work, but just on for a minute first.

i am sorry you had a bad night, i hope it will be better for you today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

things are safer and more balanced for you now, just think of how far you have come.

you have been a major supporter of mine, and have helped me alot, and i hate to see you down. like you tell me, you are doing fine, just relax.

i know you will have a better day!

arjdad

CC-I am sorry you are feeling this way. Those triggers will come like that! when you least expect them. Thats part of this process! They will bother you less and less as time goes by. Try not to think too much about your pain,your loss, thats part of the PAST. Try to concentrate on today, your husband and kids, and especially YOU...

TTYL--- Myrta

arj & Myrta,

Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I went to IC and that helped a bit. The whole convo didn't revolve around "her", amazingly enough.

CC

I wish you could stop sentimentalizing about your OW.
You allow yourself to give into your thought/obsession to such a degree that it inhibits your recovery. I understand you've experienced great pain...but you seem to perpetuate the pain by allowing yourself to stay there wallowing in the muck and mire. I think the hardest thing that you've had to overcome is that she was done with you and blamed you and you feel such injustice in it all. ie: having been the one dumped. It hurts the ego...big time. Forgive her those qualities and actions that you can't change and will never have the answers for. Release her to her H and children in your heart. Close that door on your life and try not to look back anymore.

Respect your H and his ability to forgive you all this and learn to live in the moment of your life.
Many aren't as blessed as you have been to be loved as much as you have been.

<small>[ January 04, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

I was telling my wife Myrta that CC's husband must be a very special man. He is hanging in there knowing that CC craves the other relationship. I know a lot of women who would kill for a husband like that.

So the question is:

What is going to happen? The symptoms of deep love for OW are still there despite NC. How long is this going to take? Could it be that NC is different when it is initiated by the other party? IN other words NC imposed by the OP may be harder to accept than self imposed NC?

Trix:
Thank you for those words of wisdom. I do find myself trying hard, daily, to overcome what I did and what I lost. You're right--I suffered a huge ego-blow! Had it ended differently, I wouldn't have nearly as much to obsess over. Keep in mind that I've changed a LOT and I'm not obsessing over her daily like I was. I am much more able to live in the moment with my H, children, friends, etc. The more time goes by, the further apart my obsessive thoughts are.

Stanley:
I just talked to my therapist today about her being the one who initiated NC. She agreed, that it's hard to be on the other end of that. I had no control, after being in a deep relationship with her for 3 years. Had I been the one to end it, I'd be much further along!

My H isn't aware of my wanting the relationship with my FOW to survive. He rarely even talks about it. In his eyes it's over.

As far as my feelings for the FOW being that of "deep love", I don't know if that's how I feel. While I admit that there were very deep feelings all throughout the relationship with her, I don't know that I'd even say that I was in love with her anymore. How could I be when she was so very cruel to me at the end of it all? I know that I will always have a place in my heart for her, and I love her, but I won't even bother to wonder if I'm in love with her or with the very thought of her anymore. Does me no good to go there!

CC

CC:

I have said this to my wife a 100 times. If I fell in love the way you did or my wife did there is no way in hell I could come back to the marriage. God knows what he is doing! I simply cannot see me backpedaling into a very old mundane relationship after climbing Mount Everest and experiencing the highest orgasmic plateaus . This is my mind set and that is why I don’t dare to have an affair. If another woman hooks me up with her charms I simply would not be able to go back. The reason is simple, I need to be true to what I feel. I would never, not in a million years know how to turn my love off and to go in a different direction.

In your case I am not sure you would have been able to turn your love off and drift back to your H on your own. The fact that the OW put you on NC pretty much forced your hand and now you are back home. So maybe you and I have something in common--- who knows?

As for Myrta: I have no clue as to where she gets the courage. She dumped OM and I believe she is in NC. That is why OM is stalking the family------------- he is desperate and I can see why there is desperation when the NC comes from the other side.

I am pessimistic and I hope time will diminish all this lust and deep emotional attachment to OM. It is not that I think OM is competition; but Myrta elected him. She is probably the one out of a thousand that we talked about the other day. In any event for my own sake I always let her know that she can still go back to OM any day she wants him and I will let go instantly. I simply cannot accept a woman who comes back home with a broken heart for OM

I suspect you will always love this woman and there is nothing you can do about it. I also suspect that your H is major conflict avoider or that maybe he thinks it was OK that your OP was a woman. He certainly feels that OP is not a threat anymore. But, my question is: Where are you heading with this? How do you see the end of this trip?

Stanley,

Ahh, good points and questions! I haven't thought this much about her or about the A in a long time! Just when I think I'm so past it, it hits me!! Anyway, I'll answer your questions...

I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but falling in love with my OW was eerily similar to the feelings I had when I fell for my H. My OW said something similar about us and her H. She said, "I never would have thought that lightening would strike twice for me, but it did!". That's how we both felt. So, it wasn't like a competition, or that her love was greater than my H's, or even the sex with her was greater. I KNOW that I've been blessed enough to have a very good relationship with my H and then have something similar, but new, with her!

So, I'm not moping around, thinking that it was SO wonderful with her, and I never experienced that with my H. It's just that my experiences with him were a while ago, and they've faded. With her, it was all new and exciting and great, like it was at the beginning with him. Had it gone on for 20 more years, I'd probably be at a similar point with her where I am with my H right now. Who knows!

Yes, it was hard coming from that relationship and re-entering my M. Gone were the new, high feelings of love and friendship. It was a tough change. I hate to even whine about it when the A was all my own doing! Sounds selfish...

I can tell you that the "lust and deep emotional attachment" to the OW (as with the OM in Myrta's case) definitely diminishes in time. My deep yearning for her is replaced with sadness. I had such an emptiness during the fog, and so many unanswered questions. That was replaced with guilt and misgivings. Yes, I still miss her and wish dearly that we could have salvaged the friendship because it WAS the best friendship I ever had, and she said the same thing. We both made many mistakes! I regret a lot!

YOu said: I suspect you will always love this woman and there is nothing you can do about it. I also suspect that your H is major conflict avoider or that maybe he thinks it was OK that your OP was a woman. He certainly feels that OP is not a threat anymore. But, my question is: Where are you heading with this? How do you see the end of this trip?

My answer: Yes, I think I will always love the OW. I think that my H *is* a major conflict avoider-that's how we never argued in our 20+ years of marriage. Well, that, and the fact that we simply didn't have much to argue or disagree about! When he felt strongly enough about something, I knew his feelings, but if it was something simple, he'd avoid conflict. He knew how to "handle" me!

I do think that he somewhat accepted my A because it was with a woman. It's not as "serious" because in his eyes (as he's said), "it's not REAL sex anyway". We definitely had the EA and PA, that was just like that of any hetero A, so I don't agree, but I'm happy he thinks that way!

YOu asked where am I headed with this? I'm still trying (and my H is too) to make our M work, even better than before. He's trying very hard to change those things that needed to be changed. He's trying hard not to enable me or the kids. He's trying to speak up when he has an opinion, even if it means conflict. He can't try any harder than that! I'm trying too. I'm trying to be patient until I could find a piece of something for myself--either working or volunteering my time somewhere. Right now I'm in limbo because of my daughter and her whole situation, so I'm trying to make the best of it. I've had a renewed interest in making my house a home again, and in cooking for my family and in spending time with them and with my H. All very different from how it was a year ago! I SO still have that little void though, and I know I'm in dangerous territory until it's filled, so I'm being very careful. We'll see where life takes us all.

Thanks for your input. Very interesting!

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's just that my experiences with him were a while ago, and they've faded. With her, it was all new and exciting and great, like it was at the beginning with him. Had it gone on for 20 more years, I'd probably be at a similar point with her where I am with my H right now. Who knows!
Yes, it was hard coming from that relationship and re-entering my M. Gone were the new, high feelings of love and friendship. It was a tough change. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the dilemma. If the experience with OP was all positive it must be hard to come back. Sure the relationship was built on nothing but fantasy and deceit, but the experience was very positive and the SF was great. My wife never says SF with OM was better or worse, she always says------ different. Of course, I know that is the polite way to say it was better. She never had a major disagreement or disenchantment with OM. The affair had to stop it its peak------ at a point of high crescendo. I agree with you---- it must be awfully hard to comeback to the marriage. I often wonder if Myrta would have dumped OM if we were a childless couple with no family. I think everything is predicated by the children and the immediate family. What do you think? Let me ask you: If you had no children------ why would you stay with H?
Sure, love with OP would become mundane after several years, but so what? That is better than constantly mundane in the marriage!

Thank you for being so honest with your feelings

Stanley,
Gee, I was just about ready to go to bed and then I checked the MB board and just HAD to post a reply to you!

I didn't say that the experience I had with the OP was all positive. I think I've stated that we definitely had ups and downs. We attributed a lot of that to our distance and our both being married with children. It was mundane in many ways. She shared with me her worries, thoughts, etc., about her daily life, and I did the same with her. I knew when she was paying her bills, if she was worried about money, how she was feeling daily, almost hourly, etc.... And she knew the same about me. Our lives were SOOOO entwined! So, no, it was certainly NOT all dreamy-like and positive! We also got into nearly daily arguements and disagreements. She and I were very opposite, although in the beginning of our friendship we swore that we were "twins separated at birth" (you hear that a lot about people who meet on the internet!).

Sex with her certainly was NOT better than with H; just different. Sorry, but that's the truth! Sex with H had its merits, especially since we had been having great sex for SO many years. Strange that with the OW, sex was wonderful from the start. There was a definite connection, although not the years of commitment and safety that you get in a long-standing marriage!

I miss her attention and loving ways and friendship MUCH more than the sex, btw!!!

Our A certainly didn't stop at its peak. She ended the sex in July, 2003, and we stopped speaking in May, 2004. It had gone into a downward spiral after July, 2003, when we tried hard to salvage the friendship. Too many other feelings there to work everything out.

Lastly, regarding your question about children, the OW told me once that had she not had children, we would have been together (she said this in the height of our relationship). I believed it to be true. I felt the same way, although in the back of my mind, little things told me that it probably wouldn't have worked out. After all, she wasn't nearly as accomodating and doting as my H. She wasn't the breadwinner in that family. She wouldn't be able to take care of me the way he has. AND, she had mood swings and her own set of issues that stood apart from my H's! But in the height of the romance, yes, I could see that she and I would have tried a shot of being together, HAD WE NOT HAD ANY CHILDREN. Children are really the glue in many relationships. Not that I don't love and adore my H, but it would have been a tad easier to leave him if we didn't have any children or those other responsibilities. Please know that I DO take my marriage vows seriously, even though I overlooked them and had the A, but that's how much I cared for the OW. I could never see myself in the same position again! Live and learn!

Thanks for appreciating my honesty. Hope it doesn't trigger any bad feelings for you! I sometimes forget that you're the BS in your scenario! Take care and tell Myrta I said "hi". I'll catch up to her tomorrow! Nite! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

CC

CC:

Your affair ended when you were past the peak. IN fact the affair had cooled quite a bit and you had entered the world of mundane with arguments and everything else. Despite that-- you missed her.

In Myrta's case the affair was at its maximum---- and then suddenly it ended with no warning. I have to assume it must be brutal to end like that. The analogy I used to make was that it is hard to stop urinating midstream when the bladder is full and much easier to stop urinating once the bladder is empty. Myrta acts very loving around me and tries her best, but deep inside I know she is dying and still longs for OM.

Unlike many other BS in the board I have my wife and she claims she wants to be married, but I can tell she is not the same woman I knew before. She still wants OM and I hate to be in a marriage like that. I am not sure i can get over that and cannot predict how that will affect me in the future. It is a gut thing----- I simply know it is not the same woman and I have serious doubts if she will ever be the same. The marriage is changed forever and it is hard to accept.

CC--I cannot believe what my husband is posting to you here.
He says "I have my wife, and she claims she wants to stay married". But yet my husband reading things that are not there about me. I am so tired of this!!! CC, you and I talk quiet a bit online, have I ever express to you my desire to stay with OM???
He wants me to be just like before the affair. That is nt possible, I am not the same woman, I am different now. But that does not mean that I want out, that I am thinking about OM. I am here because I want to be here!!!
I swear. that if he was in other BS position, of me not talking or making love with him, he would be crazy, he would be a goner,like he likes to say!
I am here, I am loving, we make love, I talk to him, he comes home and I am waiting for him with open arms. We sit to watch TV,snuggling with each other, but yet I am thinking of OM!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

MYRTA

Hey Stanley

You said The marriage is changed forever and it is hard to accept.


Yes our marriages arechange forever but need that be BAD ?

My marriage pre affair was dutiful, unfulfilling, convenient, boring, frustrating for the most part. Yeah we had some nice times but we were both sort of waiting for the problems to magically resolve themselves, or that an opportunity to resolve them might make itself obvious to us.

Heres a surprise statement perhaps Stanley - my marriage is now not the source of my sadness ! It is already better than it has been for years. We discuss not avoid life ( non R) issues , intimate, spend time together, enjoy each others company, meet ENs better than in years etc etc.

It memory of her affair and frustration with recovery progress that make me sad or angry occasionally but my Marriage is stronger than ever with every potential for success.

YES I worry that Squid still wants OM YES I am mortally hurt that she was physically an demotionally intimate with another man,particularly such a scummy one BUT our M as a framework for managing life is better than for years.

Change has been good, the catalyst for change was brutal however.
Squid will not be the same again either it strue but much of her personality has been unhelpful in our M for years. We have both been forced to address our needs and our contributions to our marriage and come up wanting.

Do not fear a changed marriage Stanley. Embrace and control the changes you make together.

Most of me overwhelming wishes this whole crap had never happened but a tiny percentage of me is starting to see that it was BOUND to happen given the state of our marriage and both our character flaws, and we actually got away lightly compared to most folks on this board.

Don;t tell nyone though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm not saying her affair was a good thing, I'm just saying that our response to it, well MY response to it has delivered very positive results so far.

Bob:

Our marriage was dull when I was around your age and we found a way to make it better------ much better. We had a major romantic awakening and it was true love once again---- no different than at the onset. We really enjoyed rescuing our relationship about 14 years ago and had it real good afterwards. Because of that experience I was receptive to do something positive if we drifted into dullness.

The problem is that the marriage can become dull in such a slow and disguised manner that sometimes one needs to be very alert to do something about it. In any event--- because of prior experience I would have been more than happy to work on the marriage if Myrta had shown any interest. Instead she was not receptive to improvements and subconsciously embraced anything bad about the relationship to justify her love for OM. This Bob is commonly done by all WWs. They will only focus and magnify the bad to feel justified in their actions. However, at the time our marriage was an 8/10.

In fact when Myrta was just starting her relationship with OM I was actively working on spicing up our SF. I pretended to be a secret admirer that Myrta had met online. I established an Internet friendship with Myrta and she had no idea it was me with another identity.

Then I sent her erotic emails and she kept emailing her admirer. In her emails she stated she could not be unfaithful to me, but yet she was allowing this man to send erotic emails.

I discovered that I could get great sex if I sent her an erotic email in the evening just before she went to bed. So I would go into the computer and sent her a steamy email when she was in the shower at night. She would then read the email while I was in the shower getting ready to go to bed. I would get out of the bathroom go to bed and wait for her to come up to the bedroom. I knew she had read the lurid and steamy email and was ready for SF. The erotic emails really turned her on.

She would then tell her unknown admirer that the steamy emails were causing us to have a lot of SF. However, she was still receptive to hear all the steamy stuff the unknown admirer sent to her and never said a word to me about it. Then it came to a point where she was considering a meeting with the admirer and I suddenly stopped. I did not want to go through the embarrassment of confronting the fact that she was willing to meet this man (me).

Retrospectively I should have set up a meeting. I would have loved to see her face after finding out I was the one sending the lurid emails. However, it would have been awkward because we would have faced the issue that she was available for an extramarital relationship. So I avoided that and forgot the whole thing------ bad mistake! If I had confronted her willingness to have cybersex I might have prevented her torrid romance with OM.

BTW, I would love to post a photo of my wife, myself, and OM. Bob----- I am not kidding OM was a beast! However, a very smooth talker. I am always amazed at how women fall for smooth talkers.

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

double post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Buttercup:CC ]</small>

Morning, Stanley!

I'm shocked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> over some of the things you said here this morning! You talked about Myrta ending her A while in the depth of it all, which I can't imagine how hard that was for her to do! It's like cutting off your heroin supply! Kudos to her! But then you said, "but deep inside I know she is dying and still longs for OM." I want to know where you got this from or WHY you think that she is dying and longing for the OM????? Everything that Myrta says she does within the M now shows someone who is desperately trying to repair and rebuild it, NOT someone who is going through the motions and secretly longing for the OM. Don't you think that Myrta had many opportunities to talk to the OM by now? She hasn't done so, which proves her loyalty to you.

I have spoken with Myrta quite a bit over the past month or so, and she has never expressed any desire to be with the OM. She seems steadfast in her decision to make the M work. I'm really saddened to hear your doubts regarding that. She couldn't work any harder at the M than she already is! Please give her credit for that.

You're still mocking the OM, talking about his looks, etc., which leads me to believe that for some reason you're still feeling insecure about yourself. You have no reason to be insecure. Myrta chose you! While it seems illogical to you that Myrta had the A with someone who looked like the OM did, it didn't really matter. The A was all about getting extra needs of hers met by him. Don't lower yourself to talk about the OM, and his looks or his low-life behaviour. Myrta probably won't agree with you, and it makes you look insecure. Again, I don't think that you have any need to be insecure! Myrta's not sitting around speaking lovingly about the A and missing her OM.

Myrta, sorry if I divulged any info to Stanley here. I just had to defend you and what I know about you to be true! I hope that you two kids are behaving nicely today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

CC

CC:

Thanks for the encouraging words---- you are correct------ I am insecure. It is my problem and perhaps there is not much Myrta can do about it. I did not used to be this way. I have no idea I could ever be this way. Despite everything Myrta does I am always wondering about her true feelings.

I don’t expect Myrta to admit to you, me, or anyone else that she may have feelings for OM. No one will ever know if she has. She can be intensely private about her feelings and she is the kind of person that does not need to spill her guts about how she feels. She can keep everything inside quite well.

What I posted to you I have said to Myrta many times. The concept of returning to the marriage after suddenly stopping the affair is something we discussed from day one. This is old news, but I am still tormented by my own insecurity.

Perhaps OM is not such an ugly dude after all, but I see him with the eyes of a scorned man who looks for imperfections to magnify them. It is hard having to deal with this.

You talk about triggers:

I have lots of triggers everyday------ some are very dramatic. The hotel where they met is less than a quarter mile away and I see it ALL THE TIME—it is unavoidable.

I guess that I have no choice but to allow father time to move along.

Despite everything I trust that Myrta will not contact OM. To be honest she would have to be nuts to do so as she would be risking everything. So I have complete trust that she will never try to see OM. I am not worried about that! I am worried about spending the rest of my life with a woman that has a divided heart.

<small>[ January 05, 2005, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Stan-ley ]</small>

But Stanley, I don't believe that she has a "divided heart". She couldn't live with herself if she did. While you say that Myrta keeps her feelings guarded, she had many opportunities to open up to me and talk about the OM. I talked openly about my OW to her (but that's how I am!!). I honestly believe that she's filled with regret over the A, and she's not dreaming about it.

I can't imagine how hard it is for you to know the details of the A and be reminded of them. My H never asked about the details (I'm glad too, b/c we were intimate in MY own bedroom; one of the many places in her and my house!). Those reminders for you (and all people involved with an A) will fade. I no longer am reminded of every place that she and I had sex. I'm only triggered once in a while and I'm filled with shock, sadness and guilt. A far cry from being overcome with just sadness over missing her!

It's hard, but you should try not feeling so insecure. It seems to set Myrta off. She IS doing her best... Have faith in that!

CC

CC:

Thanks again for the encouraging words!

I have to say that you sound different. I perceive a change in your attitude towards the affair. You don’t post like you did several weeks ago--- something is changing within you. It looks good!