After WH confessed to “several” affairs over our 24years of marriage, he wants to fix our marriage. He is very embarrassed, remorseful and sorry. At home he is attentive, loving and seems to be genuinely trying. The problem is that we don’t know what to fix, WH states that each ONS had a different reason it happened. None had to do with problems in our marriage??
One happened because it was his first love, that they had never had sex and he wanted to know what it was like with her. Second happed because it was his high school sweetheart, he had old love feeling for her but was not in love with her and just wanted to know what sex would be like with her now. The other happened that he was at a friend’s house and was invited to join in a threesome. Again had not every been in a threesome and just wanted to know what it would be like. WH states all affairs were ONS and they were purely for sex, no attachments except for the “old” feelings for the former girlfriends”.
So how am I suppose to work on our marriage if he cannot give me what was lacking in our relationship for me/us to work on.

I have told him what my top EN is which is Affection and security. I have told him how I need him to show me affection. WH likes to flirt - with or without me around and I have told him that it is very painful and love bank withdrawals happen when he flirts with other women. I have asked him to flirt with me. Especially, in front of other women. That this makes me feel special and wanted. That flirting at home alone is nice, but when you take it out in the public you are making a statement to everyone around I love this woman. It makes me feel safe and wanted. While if he is flirting with another woman. This makes me feel unimportant and disrespected. Husband states there is nothing wrong with the way he acts. I have seen a small improvement in that he is not flirting as much, but what I would really like is for him to flirt with me in front of the women he had been flirting with previously. - Let them know that he is only interested in me and not in them.
As you can probable tell from my post I have very low self-esteem. So just a little commit can really make my lovebank go down or up depending on the commit and who it was directed to.


Over the last few years I have gotten to the point that I don’t want to go out with any other couples or female friends of mine because I know that If the female shows any interest in WH he will be all over it with the flirting. I had thought that after all we had been through over the last few months with the discovery and discussion of his affairs he was becoming more sensitive to my EN, So like a fool I fould out one of my best friends was going to be in Las Vegas while we going – so we decided to hook up on her last day there. Well that was a big mistake; Husband and Friend flirted all night. Started out: she had some leather pants on and had complained that she needs to go change them because they were so uncomfortable. WH says to her why change the look
Soooooo good on you. Now if WH had been complimenting me on how I looked sooooo good that night I probably won’t have thought much about it. But I did not get one compliment all night.

Next we were playing the slot machine and WH turns to my friend and says, “you want to pull my handle”

And while we were walking around enjoying the free shows WH keep very close to my friend, at times standing by her watching the shows and leaving me standing alone in front of them. At on show it was very crowed and getting out through the 2 doors it got kind of cramped. WH put his hand on my friend’s shoulder so not to loose her in the crowd. They made it out together and put their arms around each other and proceeded to walk half way across the casino until they remembered me. They stopped and stood there with their arms around each other waiting for me to get caught up to them… (Now my husband never puts his arm around me unless I make him, so this was very odd for him).
Anyway I felt like if anybody was watching they would have thought oh what a sweet couple. (WH and my Friend) Walking around with there hands all over each other. And how nice they brought a friend with them. (me) . There were several other small incidents along the same lines as above. But to say the least my love bank was completely empty by the end to the evening. WH made no attempt to make a deposit all evening it was all about my friend for him. I told my husband that especially with our recent history and the fact that I am trying to recover from one of the most devastating, horrific emotional injury I have every suffered, (brought on by his selfish behavior.) ( The Affairs) That he should have been overly attentive to me, flirting like mad and pretty much ingoring my friend.
But it was the complete opposite – my friend got the attention and I got ignored.


So tell me am I overreacting as he says I am? What is you opinion do we have a chance of reaching recovery in our marriage.


Men please share with us how you make you wife feel special, especially when you are out around other women. Or do you do anything?

I would like to walk into a room full of women with my husband and feel that there is not another women in this room he would rather be with. I would like him to flirt openly with me and show everybody in the room he is attracted and interested in his wife.


But he just does not get it. I guess its more fun and important to make the other women feel attractive. L

TAD, I can understand why you are saddened by this.

My FWW ( Squid!) has been a terrible flirt for years. I have come to believe that it is actually the FLIRTERS low self esteem. "Please like me , look I give away compliments so I must be likeable".

Now I had not been 'flity' with Squid for a while before her affair so I can sort of understand why she high-geared her flirting. OMs GF in my sitiation told me that OM couldn't believe her strong flirting, he too is a low-self esteem flirt, and they just bulsh1tted each other until they couldn't pull back I guess.

So...I think flirting with folks of the opposite sex while married is always bad and never harmless. I STILL complement female friends but do so in a deliberately non-sexual way now. No DEEP eye contact or innuando, and ususally a reference to my wife in there somewhere.

So back to your FWH, I think it is at least disrespectful to you for him to flirt with othe rwomen after his affair.

I KNOW that flirting is usually an ingrained behaviour but a truly repentant FWS would make personal changes that make their FBS feel safe, right ?

You are not overreacting IMO - the examples you give here are outrageous !

You can't stop him flirting but you CAN show him how it hurts you and how it makes you feel.

If he continues after that, well, you need to make some hard, hard decisions.

BTW I flirt TERRIBLY with my FWW now once more, and she feigns embarassment but loves it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All blessings TAD. Please do not be so desperate to stay married that you tolerate behaviour that is intolerable to you.

All blessings.

TAD,

First of all I would find a new friend. No friend of mine would put up with that type of behavior from my SO.

You are not over-reacting and it is no wonder your self-esteem is low.

What your WH is doing is cruel and you have every right to be upset.

I bet Ark, Orchid, Pep and Noodle could break this down for you and give you some behavior guidance of your own which might be effective in handling him when he acts like this.

If it had been me I would have left, but that is just me and probably why I am single.

I have no idea how I would react to this, my WH NEVER flirted with another woman in my presence the entire relationship, I would have gone ballistic. It is EXTREMELY disrespectful. I've never been the type of person to like flirty guys to begin with, I find it annoying. If I had been your friend I would have been firing back things at your FWH like "Ummm I think you need to have your wife pull your handle buddy, that's what got you in trouble in the first place!" So you're 'friend' is not a very good friend at all......she didn't even notice that this was bothering you? She needs to GO.

Are you two in MC?? I think that either the issues that caused him to cheat run deeper than he can wrap his head around, or he's a serial cheater. But he's not taking your feelings into account, and that's not good. I take my dogs feelings into account, and generally every human I come into contact with, certainly more so with my SO.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you, and I wish you the best of luck, but I don't think your husband is serious, or maybe he doesn't know how to be serious about this.

-Caren

Hi TAD.

Agree with weaver: some of the seasoned MB'ers will give you a lot more on what to do about your WH's behaviour, but, thought I'd chime in with a few opinions/abservations/questions.

When were these affairs that your WH husband had? (BTW, until he is out of the proverbial fog, he is wayward. But, get to that later.)

I'm a bit confused. Your first few sentences:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...he wants to fix our marriage. He is very embarrassed, remorseful and sorry. At home he is attentive, loving and seems to be genuinely trying.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, his ACTIONS are speaking volumes. I'm a little confused over how you both want to procede with your M.

Are you overreacting? ABSOLUTELY NOT! I think Bob pegged it pretty good: most overly flirtatious people have low-esteem themselves. Attention getters. In the way you describe him, however, it may be more than "just" self-esteem problems. It goes back to the question: What does your WH really want? 'Cause he's acting/acted like a single man; not a married man.

And, what do you want? I know you said you had low self-esteem issues--my W does too, and she has come a long way by being in IC. And my A obviously did not help this out. But you, IMHO, need to take a stand and let your WH know this is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE behaviour for a married man. You need, IMHO, to work on you feeling good about you--with or without your WH's help.

This is just a brief observation only by the info you gave. Hope this helps you a little. Prayers to ya!

Just wanted to add, in "answer" to your thread title:
If he is really dedicated to your M, it is HIS responsibility to make your M and give you a safe environment. He is obviously not doing this with his behaviour. "Flirting" is a big no-no after what he has shown, his own actions, what kind of situations they have lead into. So, is it normal? Yeah--for a single man.

Hello TAD,

Your WH's behavior goes way beyond just flirting,it's INAPPROPRIATE.Blatanly so.This is a no brainer and it's why I think so many couples are in trouble these days.We ALLOW more and more disrespectful,questionable and hurtful behavior because we second guess ourselves of what we know in our hearts isn't right but yet we don't want to risk losing our loved ones so we put up with more.

It is clear to me based on your post that your WH is severely messed up and needs counseling.Why he continues to act the way he does with his past of serial cheating should be a big eye opener that HE is the problem,has the problems.Yes you may have issues too but serial cheaters and openly flirtatious people are screaming for attention of the bad kind.A kind of acceptance that is superficial.Your WH states that he only wanted sex from these liasons.Avoiding any consequence of emotion by using these women as objects of pleasure.

And with all due respect to you,he is treating your very poorly STILL because you allow it.In the beginning it may have been different as you had come to realize that your WH was unfaithful and you had to deal with that pain to you but there comes a time when this continued bad behavior has to be stopped and you are the one being affected here.

Each and every person has the right to be respected and cared for in a relationship,and also deserves the time and attention.If the person/spouse you are with has trouble keeping his/her eyes on you,keeping his hands OFF other's and has a wandering eye and is flirtatious with other's while already involved then they have a problem.

We had a thread going about flirtation a while ago.I will try to find it and bring it up for you so you can read it.

O

<small>[ January 06, 2005, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Thank you all for the response, Its nice to know sombody cares <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> you have given me stuff to think about. I have to go to work now but I will be back tonight and answer your questions best I can. And yes please find the flirting thread I would like to read it. Thank you.

Run, run as fast as you can!

I'd say your hubby doesn't give a fig for what you care. I think flirting like that is despicable behavior. And this guy wants to save your marriage? No wonder your self-esteem is in the toilet. Some people are born to flirt. But he doesn't have to do it in such a protracted, malicious manner.

Zero tolerance. If he doesn't get it, you'll have to remove yourself from it.

And your so-called friend...where is she on the clue-meter? Hello! Walking arm-in-arm with another woman's husband while she right behind you! Was what she was wearing appropriate for visiting with an old friend? Was her behavior appropriate to visit a friend? Maybe you need to ask exactly whose friend she is? Grrrr!!!!!

My WW flirted. I never flirted. The flirting made me jealous. I felt terrible for being jealous and thought it was a huge character flaw with myself. WW promoted it as such. This continued to drag down my self esteem to a really low point.

In reality (since separation) I now see that she shouldn't have been flirting. I'm not a jealous person, her behaviour was wrong and destructive to our marriage, not mine. My reaction was normal considering the circumstances.

It makes me really angry to think of how bad she made me feel about this.

Miker

Miker,

My husband is also a flirter. He's a good-looking guy and he knows how to talk to women. Women feel comfortable around him. Add a couple of beers to the flirting mix and it turns into a big mess. I also feel jealous when he shows so much attention to other women. It makes me feel weird because I stand right there next to him when he flirts or compliments another woman. To say the truth, it hurts quite a bit. When I address this issue with him, he says that I'm jealous and insecure and he doesn't want to understand why it is such a big deal.

I really hate it when people (men or women) do this, especially when their partner is around. It is an aweful thing to do. I think though it lies in their insecurity about themselves. Wanting to be liked and admired all of the time.

I don't say this to him, but I think that if he were with another woman (not me), she would probably feel the same way that I do right now.

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Miker:
<strong> My WW flirted. I never flirted. The flirting made me jealous. I felt terrible for being jealous and thought it was a huge character flaw with myself. WW promoted it as such. This continued to drag down my self esteem to a really low point.

In reality (since separation) I now see that she shouldn't have been flirting. I'm not a jealous person, her behaviour was wrong and destructive to our marriage, not mine. My reaction was normal considering the circumstances.

It makes me really angry to think of how bad she made me feel about this.

Miker </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

When I was a bartender I ran into this quite a bit. I found it so upsetting that a man would flirt with me while his partner was with him. I would just totally ignore the guy from that point forward, talk only to his partner, look only at his partner and then he got the point. And if his partner wasn't there but I knew he had one, I could just let him know what a jerk he was and he would stop.

I can't bare to see anyone treated this way, and if it were me on the receiving end, I would remove myself from the situation. Period. It just seems so cruel and demeaning to the partner.

There was a time when I might have accepted this type of treatment when I was at a very low point in my opinion of myself, but not now. No way.

I put this right next to being lied to and then told I am crazy for questioning it.

This is where a boundary has got to be in place for your own sanity and self respect.

Yuck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kati:
<strong> Miker,

My husband is also a flirter. He's a good-looking guy and he knows how to talk to women. Women feel comfortable around him. Add a couple of beers to the flirting mix and it turns into a big mess. I also feel jealous when he shows so much attention to other women. It makes me feel weird because I stand right there next to him when he flirts or compliments another woman. To say the truth, it hurts quite a bit. When I address this issue with him, he says that I'm jealous and insecure and he doesn't want to understand why it is such a big deal.

I really hate it when people (men or women) do this, especially when their partner is around. It is an aweful thing to do. I think though it lies in their insecurity about themselves. Wanting to be liked and admired all of the time.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I used to be just like your husband. What was weird was I really wasn't aware that I was flirting to me I was just being nice. My wife finally told me that my behavior made her feel very unimportant.

I've mostly stopped this behavior. If I feel that a conversation is getting flirty, I try to redirect it to a better place. I'll also try to touch my wife, hold her hand, or something like that. It really makes her feel wanted and it lets others know that we are together.

Good for you CN. I think everyone would be a lot happier if all spouses would recognize and change like you have.

Was that all it took was your wife saying it bothered her? Or did it need to become a spoken enforceable boundary first?

(QUOTE]Originally posted by Comfortably Numb:
[/QUOTE]I used to be just like your husband. What was weird was I really wasn't aware that I was flirting to me I was just being nice. My wife finally told me that my behavior made her feel very unimportant.

I've mostly stopped this behavior. If I feel that a conversation is getting flirty, I try to redirect it to a better place. I'll also try to touch my wife, hold her hand, or something like that. It really makes her feel wanted and it lets others know that we are together. [/QB][/QUOTE]


I'm glad that you were able to recognize that this behavior bothered and hurt your wife. My husband is a nice guy as well and sometimes I do not even think that he realizes how he comes across. The other day, we were @ a party and when we were leaving, he said good-bye to one of my friends and he took her hand and kissed it. She felt very uncomfortable and so did her BF and I just about wanted to die. My husband is very impulsive and he does these things.

kati, you really hit on how flirting makes me feel unimportant. My WH has been much better about showing me affection in public, esp. when a good looking woman is around. My husband is very much a outgoing friendly guy, he will talk to anyone, but he talks to woman differently, lower voice, more smiling, eye contact, standing closer, but I really don't think he knows he is doing these things. But in Las vegas he definently knew he was flirting, altho he denies it. He states he was just being friendly. I see some improvemt and really think he wants to improve our relationship but one large block is that he keeps saying he did nothing wrong while in las vegas. I told him wether he thinks it was wrong or not his actions and behavor hurt me and that should mean something to him. I worry that since he thinks he did nothing wrong it will happen again. How do I get him to understand that if his actions were hurtful to me they were wrong?

TAD,

Read up/review on the POJA regarding your WH and his continued flirting.Maybe he will take this into account.

Also,I have been trying to find that thread about flirting.So far I am not having much luck and I really thought it would be an interesting read for you( I posted on it was well).I will keep at it though.

O