OK MS, I'm going home for the weekend and I usually don't post since I choose to spend my time with my family so i rarely log in. I will check in on monday. Please consider my suggestion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Oh honey, I really love you and want to stay married to you and raise a family...BUT...I have these natural urges to have casual sex with other women too." Sorry, that won't fly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that is going to remain your truth, then it would be unfair to remain married to your wife. I believe you would also be potential health risk for her for which she would have no choice.

Maybe Annie would be a better choice since she may even agree to an open relationship indefinitely.

I believe your wife has a right to know the husband you truly are...or are not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:

<strong> There are some very raw emotions running in this thread. Please come to SYMCINC.com ... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Sorry mindsink, I won't post it here. I can PROMISE you won't endure another thread like this. But it's up to you. Another alternative is if you have yahoo messenger we can chat a bit. I have much to offer you trust me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that's just down right disrespectful! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I can imagine that the good folks at SYMC (i.e. Cerri) would not appreciate you coming to MB and dissin' one of our threads. A courteous invitation could have been offered w/o any disrespect to MB or it's members that have contributed to this thread.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the good old fashioned 2x4 approach of some of the posters that may or may not have "raw emotions" as you put it. It has it's purpose, which mindsink will eventually come to realize.

Also, I think the last thing mindsink needs right now is to private chat with anyone without the knowledge of his W, especially if you are female, regardless of your "trust me" motives.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mindsink:
<strong> Liny, you misunderstood the context of my statement. I was saying that I would appreciate discussing this in a rational adult manner, which SOME of you have failed to do. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I'm really confused. Until you are accountable for what you have done, you, my friend, are not acting like an adult. No name calling or "accusations". Experience, my friend.

SISF-have to agree with ba--it's one thing to offer to email or IM or start a new thread, but that was quite disrespectful, IMHO. Hopefully, you *do* have something that will help MS. Question is, not sure why you can't do it here. Personal choice, I *can* respect that.

mindsink,

I give you credit for wanting to stay in M. Now, do you realize in order to reach fullfilin M you have to do Radical Honesty ?.

Yes, you may be able to keep you M if you shut up about your mistake. However could you trust yourself not to do it again ?. Do you want the old M or take a chance to build fulfillin M ?.

It is your choice.

-rh-

Mindsink,
You have quite a problem here. If you don't tell your wife, YOU still know. The FWS's here would probably tell you, that the secret is always there between you. YOU have to live with the feeling that you are married to someone who absolutely does not want to be with you. You are relying on a false sense of security here thinking that since she does not know, you will be able to go on and everything will be as before. All is changed now and YOU know it is.

Guilt does eat at many WS's before d-day but IMHO the feeling of living with a spouse who does not want to be married to the real you has also got to be a huge part of the torment the WS feels. I wonder if it's not just feelings for an OP but also a defense mechanism from feeling unwanted that contributes to the WS starting to pick apart their spouse and look for flaws. (Your wife isn't home now so you may not have found yourself yet looking for the things she does wrong and the things that aren't so great about her, but that time will come if the lies continue.)

I think the WS that comes clean and finds that their partner is willing to stay with them to work through their problems and rebuild a NEW marriage is most often shocked. They have spent the entire time in the A convinced that their spouse would leave them, they have invested huge amounts of energy developing lie after lie to hide what they've done, and often they've become much more involved with the OP than they ever dreamed. Some even find the OP isn't so great after all but they're already involved and at least the OP does want to be with them so it continues. What a mess! That staying in an A could happen just because it becomes easier than not being in it. Lies lead to more lies. Again, the spouse may never find out but look what it has done to the WS. Their belief in themselves and their marriage becomes shattered and nowhere is totally comfortable or even real.

Tell your wife for selfish reasons. (Oh sure, I believe she has every right to decide whether or not she wants to be in this M.) Tell her so that in the future if you are still married, you know that she wants to be with you, the real you.

Now, there is a lot of work to be done. There is a lot for you to learn about marriage and about rebuilding a marriage. I strongly suggest you take up Hopeful on his offer regarding SYMC. The reclamation board there is strictly for wandering spouses. You can talk there without us BS. It is a place you can avoid some of what you ran into here. I wouldn't expect anyone to tell you to continue on the same path but since those there have been in shoes similar in style to the ones you see when you look down at your feet now, you may find a more comfortable fit there. Not to mention some great advice. (If it is possible to get any greater advice than what Noodle's already posted.)

Just my 2 cents,
MM

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: SleeplessInSF ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ba109:
<strong> [QUOTE] Now that's just down right disrespectful! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I can imagine that the good folks at SYMC (i.e. Cerri) would not appreciate you coming to MB and dissin' one of our threads. A courteous invitation could have been offered w/o any disrespect to MB or it's members that have contributed to this thread.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the good old fashioned 2x4 approach of some of the posters that may or may not have "raw emotions" as you put it. It has it's purpose, which mindsink will eventually come to realize.

Also, I think the last thing mindsink needs right now is to private chat with anyone without the knowledge of his W, especially if you are female, regardless of your "trust me" motives. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry BA if you saw any disrespect in my post. I certainly didn't mean any disrespect. I thought my post WAS a polite invite without disrespect. I re-read it and see no disrespect. I simply said there are some raw emotions.

I do understand the intended "purpose" of the "good old 2x4 aproach" but it usually ends in the poster leaving the boards. I believe that is true 10 fold if the poster is still involved in the A.

I ask you not to dismiss the FACT that a person in mindsinks situation could benefit MUCH more from a 2x4 free environment to discuss his very REAL emotions that are being dismissed as either fake or crazy as some have said in this thread! I'm sure "Cerri" can appreciate the benefit of 2x4 free environment. The reclamation board exists for a reason.

I am male and I'm sure his wife would someday be very happy we chatted in private. What are you imagining is going to take place in our chat? I'm confused there... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I also wanted to apologize to any others who saw my post as disrespectful.

Can you really be falling in love with a woman who would do with others what she does with you (have sex without knowing them)?

I don't think you are falling in love with her. You are falling in love with how she makes you feel.

It sounds like a road to nowhere good.

Your inability to stop seeing the prostitute shows the addiction you have to that feeling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by picklesaresour:
<strong>
I don't think you are falling in love with her. You are falling in love with how she makes you feel.

Your inability to stop seeing the prostitute shows the addiction you have to that feeling. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very insightful and I bet 100% on target!

There seems to be a big missing chunk in all of these posts to mindsink: what on earth is your wife doing away from you for months at a time?

How many of these trips does she make? Why? Any chance you can do them together?

How do you feel about being a bachelor so much of your married life? Are you resentful?

I know for sure the Harleys would not recommend this. It is an invitation to adultery.

A.M. has cut to the chase. Gone for 5 months at a time. No marriage can remain healthy in that type of enviroment. I work in the automotive sector and it is very common for engineers and the like to be gone for months at a time to launch new vehicles throughout the country and the World. I can tell you with almost certainty which marriages survive, it is the ones who's spouses travel together, the others, forget about it! Why are such long separations allowed to occur? I suggest that the answer to that question is a necessary part of any plan to fix this broken marriage.

Mr. G

I was wondering about these long absences too. Never good for any M.

FWW's A started while on a business trip to SE Asia. Continued with many subsequent business trips, also. And some of my own greatest temptations (never succumbed though) occurred while on trips of my own or while she was away for a long time.

Mindsink, she’s a hooker, for cry’n out loud. With all due respect, are you foggy or what?

Run to your wife. Hold onto her as if she was your only life preserver.

T

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SleeplessInSF:
<strong>
I ask you not to dismiss the FACT that a person in mindsinks situation could benefit MUCH more from a 2x4 free environment to discuss his very REAL emotions that are being dismissed as either fake or crazy as some have said in this thread! I'm sure "Cerri" can appreciate the benefit of 2x4 free environment. The reclamation board exists for a reason. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SYMC's reclamation board is intended for those who are actively involved in, or have recently ended an A and are seeking to restore the M. This is not mindsinks situation. Mindsink desires sex with women (plural) other than his W. This desire takes him to places like the massage parlor that he visited where he just happened to become emotionally attached to a prostitute.

Your opinion regarding the 2x4 approach is respected as just that...your opinion, not FACT.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What are you imagining is going to take place in our chat? I'm confused there... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a question best answered by your coach. It is not a good practice for many reasons.

Ok, it's Monday. Here's an update on my situation:

On Saturday, I went to see "Annie" one last time...not to have sex, but to say goodbye. I gave her some last words of advice (because in a way, I feel like a "big-brother" to her), and wished her luck.

Since that day, I feel SO MUCH better. I have renewed feelings for my wife that I haven't felt since we were dating, and I can't WAIT to see her! Thinking long a hard at the past few years of our marriage, I've realized that things have become very passive and routine. Sex became a once-a-month thing, even when she WAS here. I feel like she's become less and less affectionate to me, and perhaps in some way, that led my mind to wander. Perhaps the reason I lust after other women is because she's not meeting an emotional need that I desire. What that is exactly I have yet to pinpoint, but I'm trying. I've read quite a few articles on marriagebuilders.com and they've been quite insightful. I've even ordered one of the books that is recommended (hehehe).

For those wondering if she's gone all the time, the answer is: not really. She has gone away on business trips, but usually for a week at a time, and it would be once every few months. This is the first time she's been away this long.

I'm going to address the comments about my wife loving "the real me". She does love the real me. A few visits to a massage parlor does not define who I am. I have rationalized it in my mind as something that's not a big deal. It was something that was necessary in my life for me to "wake up" to what's going on in my marriage. Call me psychopathic. Perhaps I am. I don't care. It's what I've decided. It's a decision that will keep our marriage together, and myself sane.

Thanks for those who have contributed positively to this thread. Your words of advice will carry with me for the rest of my life.

Mindsink...
Sorry for jumping down your throat in the beginning. I just got so mad at the thought of what you were doing. I guess I have alot of my own anger over what's going on with me and my WH.

I just wanted to say that I've been keeping up with your posts. I think it's a great step that you said good-bye to "Annie". I do encourage you to tell your wife. You can never truly heal until you do. Please just consider it ok?
YOU CAN save your marrigae!!! I wish my WH was as commited to fixing the problem as you seem to be with yours.

I do wish you the best of luck!

Sorry.....double post

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: TreeReich ]</small>

A few visits to a massage parlor does not define who I am. I have rationalized it in my mind as something that's not a big deal. It was something that was necessary in my life for me to "wake up" to what's going on in my marriage. Call me psychopathic. Perhaps I am. I don't care. It's what I've decided. It's a decision that will keep our marriage together, and myself sane.



THE FOG SPEAKS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK

MS, glad to hear the events over the weekend. HOWEVER, your journey has just begun.

Best wishes to you.

Edited to add: Don't think it was too fair for a hit and run post, seasoned with sarcasm.

MS, you are taking steps in the right direction--there's a glimmer of light there. But, please don't say you are not nonchalant and then post something like your last paragraph. STOP RATIONALIZING WHAT YOU DID. YOU WERE WRONG. Until you can admit that to yourself, let alone your wife who is completely clueless and innocent of your actions while she is away, why bother staying married? We are still waiting to hear that popping sound.

Oh, and as a side night, I really do hope you get yourself checked before you have sex with your wife. It's bad enough you are taking her marriage in your hands, but it's another thing jeopardizing her life.

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>