I don't want anyone to think that I absolve my WH for anything he's done, I don't. He actually did articulate his needs to me over and over and over again, but since it wasn't important to me, I deemed it unimportant. If something bothered him and it didn't bother me, then I let it go.

I also don't want to appear that I'm shouldering all the blame for the state of my marriage, I am absolutely not, but I acknowledge that I am not a blameless little innocent flower that was trampled on by this uncaring clod.

Did I deserve all this? NO Can I ever forget that it happened? NO Can I forgive my husband and try to be a better person ABSOLUTELY.

Maybe it's just me, but a few of the posts sounded like the people are only doing this for the sake of their children, and they're making something they don't want work out anyway....this does not describe my feelings at all, I am very hurt by my WH's choice, but I love him more than life itself and I'll do anything I have to do to win him back.

People throw the word love around like it's nothing, they profess to love their SO and say that they would do anything in the world for them....but the proof is in the puddin'.

I have been weighed
I have been measured
And I have been found wanting
(all the weighing and measuring was done by me)

-Caren

Caren,

It's true that by the time an A is actually found out,the WS is long gone and has a very hard time coming back(to the marriage) from what they did.They have so convinced themselves that what they are doing is the right thing.Even the "sake of the children" is hardly a reason for a WS to come back home to the marriage(as we have heard).They are so self absorbed and soaked in infatuation chemicals that it seems any other alternative to Infidelity is avoided at all costs.Certainly they don't want to do anything toward the marriage or to make it work,that's usually the last thing on their minds.

Of course no one who admits to repeatedly ignoring their spouses feelings and needs is lauded here either but more often than not,the BS is unaware that the WS is making these choices to cheat and keep it secret until a huge amount of damage is done.I have also always said (and other's agreed) that even in the cases of abuse,seeking companionship and support in the arms of another is not the answer and can even be more dangerous if the BS finds out.Again,no justifiable reason to seek fulfillment in the arms of another until you are single.

I am still trying to find out information/statistics as to why this choice is still applied in our society and even encouraged in some ways as "fun" or exciting for "dull" marriages or even acceptable on some level.Why.If we put people behind bars for stealing a coat,why do we not have stronger deterrents for adultery? Aren't our marriages and families,the very fabric of our societies, even more precious and in need of protection and support?

Anyway,I'll get off my sopa box now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

O

There is no doubt I could have changed for the better without this horrible affair. But, the same can be said for her.

Our marriage was very stressed due to events that were beyond the control of both of us. That caused us to neglect each others EN's. But, those events are over with and we could have focused on each other again. Alas, my WW chose to get her needs met by the OM.

Having an affair because of marital problems is like burning down the house to get rid of the termites. It works, but......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do any of you feel that you would have changed without this life crushing blow? Without an event that shakes your very values, do you think that you would have honored your vows of "love, honor and cherish" your spouse in the manner you should?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no doubt that we would have just gone on the way we were until the kids were grown and gone. My H's affair really woke me up. We'd been treating each other terribly and it was just getting worse as the years went on. We had so many anger issues. I'm not saying that I consider his affair a blessing in disguise, but I have to say that now we will either work this out with a lot of counseling over the next few months, or we will realize that it is time to part ways. Even if we split up, I will at least know that we did give it an honest try.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> nvtro,

I understand your quest to analyze what your role in this mess is.However,I take umbrage that some of us here are not taking inventory of our own lives.if anything,we are examples of doing just that,in a very intimate and painful way.We are baring our souls here,to other's,who we do not know other than as log in names.We are trying desperately to repair our marriages and become even more educated about a sinful and extremely destructive choice made by someone who was supposed to love and protect us,through vows and God.[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed. I am not asserting that the other members are not reflecting upon their pasts and not trying to change themselves. I merely wanted to discuss how this type of tragedy has forced others to reflect on their actions and beliefs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A very common misconception in this society is that a marriage is supposed to be this or that or even "perfect".It doesn't take any work and will just drive itself,etc.So,when we figure out that our spouses are not perfect,have flaws,have issues,don't know how quite to be everything we fantasize about(with much media influence IMO) we start saying to ourselves,"I am missing out", "My BS isn't X",or "My BS isn't Y".We look to other's to start filling voids and to be people that they just cannot be.We think that the answer lies elswhere and this leads into the Grass is Greener attitude.How do we know this is a false measure of standing? Because second marriages have a 75-80 failure rate.Marriages born from adultery have an abysmal success rate(less than 3%).There are reasons to believe that adultery is as horrible and sordid as it truly is.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perception is ones own but when we are talking about adultery,the reality to that is it is WRONG and there is no other reality even if the WW perceives this abominable choice as appropriate at the time.They are misguided and selfish in that choice.If it weren't the case,we would not have so many people in pain and so many families/marriages destroyed by his act,etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed. I have foolishly attempted to explain this issue with WS. Now that I have clarity of my actions and how they were wrong and hurtful, the fact that I did commit them is not justification for her present actions...the basic concept of "two wrongs don't make a right". Unfortunately, this has been rebutted with a "Why not?" The convoluted thought process that governs rationalizing immoral acts is almost as sad as the actions they are meant to justify. But they are intertwined.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[b]YOU are still partly blaming yourself for your WW's CHOICE to committ adultery IMO.We can debate this all day but you are not responsible for the actions of another and even influence is not a reason.I try to influence my patients to live better but that doesn't always stop them from going out for that next cigarette.THEIR choice.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While I do NOT blame myself for her CHOICE, I do blame myself for the actions that I KNOW I committed during our marriage, things that I fully believe contributed to her movement away from our marriage. If we don't influence others, then why do you waste your time trying to influence your patients to quit smoking? You do because it can influence people's actions.

I for one did change....because I did not find out about my XW's affair until after our marriage died a 5 year slow painful death after her affair. In fact I found out when she decided she wanted to try and reconcile after our divorce!

I changed because I had to. I have compared myseelf to TA many times...that was my personality...type A. Strong willed. I did not listen to my wife. All the signs were there and I ignored them. Oh sure she lied but my own arrogance was to blame too.

How did I change? I addressed my anger issues that stemmed from my childhood. I addressed how I dealt with conflict. And mostly how I dealt with stress....
After the anger was gone for her she noticed...as did others...Besides the physical changes I made (I lost about 50 pounds due to the divorce) she noticed my behavior...and that she could not "push my buttons"

I am very different today...what WAS important to me 5 years ago (and for my whole life for that matter) seem trivial today....

Thanks for the replies. Concerning this topic, are their any who have experienced or fear that if reconciliation occurs, that WS will consider the affair as justified, even if only slightly, as it was the straw which broke us?

WS has babbled the rhetoric that I "forced her to have this affair" and other nonsensical rants, so I wonder if -granted we reconcile and enter recovery -she will rationalize her affair as necessary for my change. I worry how I could take the babble going from "you made me do this" to "well you wouldn't have changed if I hadn't done it".

nvtro, it gave me great satisfaction to be in what I considered to be a good marriage. If my wife had suddenly told me she did not consider it to be so good, and that she needed things to change, there's no doubt at all that I'd have been sufficiently shaken just by that. Things absolutely would have changed.

Hopefully she would have changed some of her own behavior as well. I wasn't the only one who made our M vulnerable to my W's affair!

GC

I can't honestly say if I would've made all of the changes needed, at the right time. But the saddest part, and perhaps the most hurtful was the fact that WW never gave me the opportunity.

Not once did she hint that she was that unhappy, there were subtle hints, but like most men, I needed to be hit with a 2 x 4. and once D-Day happened, WW had no interset whatsoever in working on the M.

I'm still hopeful, although, if you know my sitch, you will see that it looks bleak at this point in time.

Interesting. Sounds like there is a preponderance of "No, I wouldn't have changed with the affair, but I sure wish I had" out there.

I feel that way too. I don't think I would have. It seems it did take a shock to the system, something to wake me up to the fact the marriage wasn't okay, in order to realize my contribution to the A. The A isn't excusable, it shouldn't be, but I've done my own share of hurtful things that I've been forgiven for.

If this was the only way I was ever going to take her complaints seriously then I'm glad it happened. Whether this works out for me or not, I realize I did some things really stupid. Respect for other's opinions, listening, treating with kind words rather than criticism and anger, are traits that are worth having. I didn't have those things and I now want to be a good man and have them. It doesn't matter if it saves my marriage. There are other relationships that will benefit from being a better person, such as the ones with my kids, siblings, or friends.

nvtro,

Forgot the second part of your question....
"Concerning this topic, are their any who have experienced or fear that if reconciliation occurs, that WS will consider the affair as justified, even if only slightly, as it was the straw which broke us?"

By then I'll be a better man and it won't matter whether she believes that or not. I can only change me...not her. That's her job if she cares to take it on.

I can't honestly say if I would've made all of the changes needed, at the right time. But the saddest part, and perhaps the most hurtful was the fact that WW never gave me the opportunity.

Not once did she hint that she was that unhappy, there were subtle hints, but like most men, I needed to be hit with a 2 x 4. and once D-Day happened, WW had no interset whatsoever in working on the M.

I'm still hopeful, although, if you know my sitch, you will see that it looks bleak at this point in time.