Hey, im not the only one on this site who rammed her h's car or ruined his clothes, but i guess i am the only one that im aware of who did BOTH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . And after all, when my H suspected i was dating, he tried to ram MY car. So you see nothing is hopeless, maybe get some anti depressants before you try plan a again? They may help you get thru some of this a little bit easier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shelly_3:
<strong> Susu, I guess the easiest way for me to describe why i did what i did was i really lost my mind for awhile. I have never in my entire life been thru so much pain that i still feel everyday from the time i get up until i go to sleep. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I forgot to ask you, how do you avoid making your H feel guilty for the pain he caused you? Or, how does he react? This is my biggest infraction. I don't know how to hide my pain and anger. It all comes boiling out.

Well, for me i did a better plan a when i pretended we were dating again.its kind of a silly thing to be dating your own H, but it really worked for me. As for hiding the pain, i didnt really. i worked my behind off at the health club! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You'd be surprised at how much aggression and pain can be worked off with a personal trainer. And i brought my dd with me and it became a family thing. Avoid making him feel guilty? I guess I dont avoid it. He has to deal with his guilt his own way just as i had to deal with my agony in my own way. Try reading Orchid's reverse babble techniques, they will cut thru your H's fog a lot better than stuff like "how can you do this to me and our children?" or " do you know what you've done to this family ?"kind of things.

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: shelly_3 ]</small>

Thanks Shelly,

Maybe I will go out and shovel snow and work off some anger. Also, the dating again scenario sounds like a good idea. Except when WH and I were dating, OW wasn't sticking her ugly mug into the picture on an everyday basis. I have got to get that THING out of my head.

I think I am going to try to sleep. Thanks Shelly, I don't feel so alone right now.

Suzanne

Hi Suzanne,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I forgot to ask you, how do you avoid making your H feel guilty for the pain he caused you? Or, how does he react? This is my biggest infraction. I don't know how to hide my pain and anger. It all comes boiling out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shelly hit the nail on the head with her reply... I just wanted to reinforce what she's already said...

YOU are NOT responsible for your H's guilt or pain. Your H's guilt and pain is a direct result of his own actions.

It is NOT healthy for you to "hide" your pain and anger... However, you should learn some ways to deal with your anger in a positive, godly manner... working out at the gym is a great stress reliever...

Also, try to use "I feel..." statement with your H. "I feel so angry and hurt when say that you will call us and then don't follow through" You are being honest with your H by letting him know that his actions hurt you.... without accusing him of anything.

The goal here is not to "win" the argument, the goal is to convey your true feelings to your H in an honest, non-threatening way...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Suzanne, (one of my favorites names!)
I just wanted to add my support as well. Your story touched me deeply. The pain is tremendous isn't it? Its really surprising to me as I always considered myself to be a very strong person. I never knew I could cry so many tears...to the point that the saltiness of the tears burned my cheeks.

Caren's post about being weepy and clingy really hit home for me too as I have always been so independent. I have to fix ME. Thats all anyone can do.

You're right about the tremendous amount of infidelity. It was a major shock for me as well.

Please know you are in my prayers.

Dear RIF,

Thaks for the insight. My problem is that my WH is an avoider. I make him feel guilty when I am showing pain; therefore, he wants to run away from me (ie, the pain I feel). I would love to appear happy and self-confident, but let's face it, I will never be in the running for an Academy Award. Not by a long shot. I am resolved to do my best to become happy and self-confident so I don't have to act. Your suggestions will help me a lot to do that I think.

TNBelle,

Thank you for your compassion and support. It is very encouraging to know that others understand the pain one is going through. Especially when the people closest to you just don't seem to "get it." Thanks again.

Suzanne

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SuSutimes2:
.... My problem is that my WH is an avoider. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no, that's HIS problem. you're problem is that you feel that HIS problem is yours when it's not, it's all his. that's called codependence.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I make him feel guilty when I am showing pain; therefore, he wants to run away from me (ie, the pain I feel). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no again, you don't make him feel anything. he feels what he feels including the guilt as a natural consequence of his actions. your pain is not the problem. you pain is part of the natural consequence of his actions impacting you. you trusted him and that trust was betrayed and that created pain. don't invalidate your own pain in your own mind. your pain is real, accept it. he wants to run because he doesn't want to face the consequences of his actions or accept that his actions have consequences. don't deny him those consequences. you hurt because your trust was betrayed, that is the fact, that is the reality. own it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I would love to appear happy and self-confident, but let's face it, I will never be in the running for an Academy Award. Not by a long shot. I am resolved to do my best to become happy and self-confident so I don't have to act. Your suggestions will help me a lot to do that I think. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i don't think you are acting nor is an acting award your goal. remember i said you don't have to smile when you cry. it's healtheir that you cry when you're hurt than that you pretend you're not hurt.

....... Especially when the people closest to you just don't seem to "get it." ....

Suzanne [/QUOTE]

what if they get it but they don't want to accept reality. what if they would rather deny reality that their actions have consequences?

how is your gratitude list coming?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kasey1:
<strong> how is your gratitude list coming? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Kasey,

Thank you for coming back. My gratitude list includes the following:

I am grateful for my children and that they are healthy. I am grateful for my brother who has taken me in and cared for me consistently. I am grateful for this website for the support it offers. I am grateful for the ability to seek out help (some people don't) I am grateful for a God who loves us. You are much more articulate than I am in this regard. I have so many things to be grateful for, I will continue working on this list. (I am grateful for you and your helping me to deal with this)

Thank you again.

Hi Suzanne,

I don't know what to tell you, but I want you to know I'm thinking of you.

Oh, I know!

So many WS seem to be avoiders. I've seen enough here to say they are more threatening to marriages than even philandering narcissists that are the cartoon version of adulterers (the "once a cheater, always a cheater" types).

My WW is an avoider too.

There are different kinds of avoider... the most common sort, I think, is the kind who gives people what they want because he feels this is somehow his duty, but he doesn't do so graciously. He stuffs his bad feelings and stores up resentments in a big psychological landfill that eventually gets too full.

Sleep well, Suzanne, in beautiful, cold, snowy Montana. I'm in the snow business, did you know? My job is to be the foremost authority on how much snow there is everywhere (and I really mean everywhere) in the lower 48.

Nighty night,

GC

Hi GC,

Thank you for thinking of me. I appreciate that more than you can imagine.

Your definition of an avoider describes my WH to a T. He doesn't like to say "No" to people but yet resents that he says, "Yes". His brother told me that he feels that WH has said yes to people his whole life when he really didn't want to and now he has blown up to release one BIG NO.

Unfortunately, we are part of his rebellion. He wants no responsibility and a wife and two children is a lot of responsibility. OW doesn't ask ANYTHING from him. She has no children, is financially independent, and "smiles all the time." Oh, and according to my WH ( I asked him to tell me one good thing about her) she is "clean." All I could think of is "What?!!!!!" I am an exremely fastidious person. I had some health problems about five years ago that did not allow me to clean my house as well as I would have liked to, but give me a break. You could eat off of my floors and I take great care to keep myself physically clean also. So, I guess that was the only good thing about her he could think of at the moment. Although I did ask him if cleanliness of spirit meant anything to him (I'm thinking of the white sepulchres Jesus compared the Pharisees to in the gospels). He just replies that, "nobody's perfect." Aughhhhh!!!!!

Anyway, I wondered where you got your screen name. So is your official title meteorologist or something else. That is very interesting!

And I am planning to get to sleep pretty soon. So Nighty night to you too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SuSutimes2:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kasey1:
<strong> how is your gratitude list coming? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Kasey,

Thank you for coming back. My gratitude list includes the following:

I am grateful for my children and that they are healthy. I am grateful for my brother who has taken me in and cared for me consistently. I am grateful for this website for the support it offers. I am grateful for the ability to seek out help (some people don't) I am grateful for a God who loves us. You are much more articulate than I am in this regard. I have so many things to be grateful for, I will continue working on this list. (I am grateful for you and your helping me to deal with this)

Thank you again. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that's a great start susu...

now make that list the start of your prayer and end the prayer with...."God please show me what you want me to do today and bless me with the willingness to do it."

don't worry about being articulate, God hears your heart and that's what he wants most.

. [/qb][/QUOTE]that's a great start susu...

now make that list the start of your prayer and end the prayer with...."God please show me what you want me to do today and bless me with the willingness to do it."

don't worry about being articulate, God hears your heart and that's what he wants most. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Thanks Kasey,

I appreciate you "checking on me." I am still listing things that I am grateful for. And oddly enough I have actually been praying almost word for word what you mentioned on a daily basis. I know the Lord hears us, but sometimes I feel so dense or deaf, that I don't seem to hear His reply. I want desperately to be within God's will for my life. I just become so confused as to what exactly that is. I can only think of Genesis 12, where God instructs Abraham to "go to a land which I will show you." Why was it so clear to Abraham what God was saying to him. Does God speak as clearly to us today? If so, why do we have so much difficulty HEARING Him. I do know he speaks to us, just not as clearly. Although I have had an experience that to me was a miraculous example of God communicatihg with me.

Shortly after d-day my WH served me with DV papers (which he later canceled). It destroyed me emotionally. I had a breakdown and my mother took me to the ER. The doctor gave me some drugs to help me sleep. I spent most of the next day asleep. My son was watching the then 4 year old and my 12 year old was at school. Around 2:00 pm I woke up (crying as usual) I just began praying to God. I felt that He had been giving me verses in the Bible that were reassuring me that my marriage would be restored and be better than it had ever been. My problem was that I doubted my perception. I told myself that I was reading only what I wanted to read into it. So I prayed and flat out asked the Lord, "Are you going to restore my marriage. I am dense, please show me in black and white, please." I remember that prayer so vividly. My son had gone to pick up my daughter from school and walked in about 10 minutes after I prayed that prayer. My daughter came into my bedroom and said, "Oh, Mama, this is for you." It was a little booklet called "A Miracle for your Marriage" written by John Osteen of the Lakewood Church in Texas. It had been given to my daughter by a busdriver at her school that I knew (she was OW's neighbor and knew the situation). However, the busdriver had the booklet with her all week and had seen me numerous times but did not feel compelled to give it to me. Anyway, I opened the booklet and on the second page it said, "God established the home first, before He created the Church. And the devil knows if he can destroy the family unit that he can destroy much more beyond that. But aren't you glad God is in the restoration business? He is going to restore your home and your marriage and give a miracle to husbands and wives everywhere."

I laughed and cried and was so overwhelmed. I feel that God provided the answer --in black and white--at the precisely correct time that it would do the most good.

God truly is a great and awesome God. And I find when I try to do things under my own power instead of trusting Him, I fail miserably. The most unfortunate thing about me is that I too frequently continue to try to work this out in my own power. That's like trying to light the Las Vegas Strip with one AAA battery. It just can't be done. No way, no how. So I am trying very hard to just hand everything over to our Lord and Savior and trust that He will keep His promise. God is the only One faithful to do all He says. Also Matthew 19:26 says that "with God all things are possible." I just have to keep that in mind when I want to try try try again by myself.

Sorry to go on and on. But again, thanks Kasey for unction to continue to look to God and trust in His good intentions for my life.

Suzanne

Hi SS- You remind me alot of myself when I was separated from my WH. I too did a pathetic Plan A- it only lasted a few weeks since my H was deterimined to run off with OW. Like your H's OW this one had no kids, financially well off, lived to please him. I knew her personally and that made it harder as well to get rid of the mental images of them together. And she told my H she was eager to become my kids step-mom- amazing since I had been a SAHM with them their whole lives and moved 5 times for H's promotions over the years. Have you read "Love Must be Tough"? That book was helpful for me to understand Plan B. I didn't get too much time to do Plan B because OW pressured my H to divorce me to be with her so he had me served with papers. It was shortly after that he awoke from his mid-life crisis. Like your H my H is a huge conflict avoider- it made it so hard to be close to each other emotionally during the years and during our problems. Now that we are in recovery I see the same pattern of lack of closeness. I often felt like recovery was up to me and that he avoided having to deal with all the anger and sadness he caused. He did go to counseling with me but he is not in touch with his feelings and he can't get over his guilt enough to truly understand how to help me.I am now considering asking him to go back to a new counselor with me. I wish I had this board to turn to when I was going thru the worst of things. I didn't find it till later on. Take care- you are not alone. lifeismessy

Hi LIM,

It truly is scary how similar our situations are. Even to the OW pressuring WH to file for divorce. The paralegal who did the paperwork gave my WH her card and asked him to have me call her so she could "help" me with any paperwork I had to file. When I called her, she told me that she had been a paralegal for 12 years and that most of the men she spoke to didn't really want a divorce. She proceeded to tell me that my husband was no exception and that the OW was the one who made the appointment. When they came in for the appointment, my WH was not prepared to move forward, had no money, etc. OW whipped out her checkbook and paid for it. Paralegal went on to tell me that after I was served OW is the one who was calling constantly to find out "What do we do next?" The paralegal told me that she felt compelled to let me know because she saw very strongly that my WH did not want the divorce. She had nothing to gain, and probably a lot to lose. I'm not sure how ethical that looks. But three months later WH canceled the divorce. Still was seeing OW but not proceeding with D. Classic cake-eater I guess.

Well, night before last I told him point blank to just go file for divorce. If he wanted to continue with OW, divorce me, marry her and stop making her the whore she is. It blew him apart. He went to a friend's house in tears, told him what I said, and said, "But I don't want a divorce." The friend laid into him and told him to "stop playing stupid games. It's been more than two years. If you don't want Suzanne, divorce her and let her move on with her life." He swore he was going to take a couple of days and figure out what exactly to say to OW and break it off with her. Yeah, I know how that's going to go. "Oh, OW, I love you so much, but Suzanne has my kids and I can't live without them, so I'm stuck going back to her. But if you want to continue to meet me in parking lots for 10 minutes per morning and 20 minutes per afternoon, you're welcome to do that. Suzanne will never know." Then he will continue to shut me out and never get into or past withdrawal. Been there, done that. Who needs that? Not me!!!

Sorry, kind of got carried away there.

Anyway, at least I was able to type all that without feeling blinding rage--a big improvement.

Thanks for the reply. Hope your recovery continues to go well. And that you find a new counselor that will help both of you. Do you crave closeness with your H? I sure do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, night before last I told him point blank to just go file for divorce. If he wanted to continue with OW, divorce me, marry her and stop making her the whore she is. It blew him apart. He went to a friend's house in tears, told him what I said, and said, "But I don't want a divorce." The friend laid into him and told him to "stop playing stupid games. It's been more than two years. If you don't want Suzanne, divorce her and let her move on with her life." He swore he was going to take a couple of days and figure out what exactly to say to OW and break it off with her. Yeah, I know how that's going to go. "Oh, OW, I love you so much, but Suzanne has my kids and I can't live without them, so I'm stuck going back to her. But if you want to continue to meet me in parking lots for 10 minutes per morning and 20 minutes per afternoon, you're welcome to do that. Suzanne will never know." Then he will continue to shut me out and never get into or past withdrawal. Been there, done that. Who needs that? Not me!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OUCH! I have been slow to read your thread. Sorry!

Suzanne, you are stornger than you think you are. You are right to think more of yourself than to think that you deserve half of a man, half of a marriage.

The confusion of a fog is amazingly poweful! I am often astounded at my WH comments. He conflicts himself so much that everyone is confused!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry, kind of got carried away there.

Anyway, at least I was able to type all that without feeling blinding rage--a big improvement.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not ever apologize for your feelings. This board is a safe environment for exactly this purpose! All my good wishes are for you!
Tina