you said in another post that at one point your wife told you she just loved you like a friend, is this correct?

and then 4 months later, she is in love with you again ?

i ask because that is what i am hearing from my wife. she told me she can't remember the last time she knew without a doubt that she loved me like she should.

she has had NC since DD on oct 19 04.

i don't think this is about the affair anymore. according to her, it has been years since she loved me.

we have been going to MC, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HELPING.

thinking about calling MB phone counseling.

any ideas or input?

thanks for the help,

arjdad

Arjdad, yes thats exactly what Squid told me after d-day. Its been six months however, but it was around four months after d-day that Squid said she loved me again.

" Look, I love you like a brother - a friend. We've grown apart. I remember what love feels like with OM. I love you but I'm not in love with you. I've felt like this for years. Get over it".

Even after she decided to work on our M ( but was still calling OM every day) she would say " I'm sick of playing happy families, Bob, this might be a waste of time."

I stuck with meeting ENs, plan a'ing etc etc. three months after d-day, squid and I were in a pub near our holiday home with friends and we bumped into each other leaving the restrooms. Squid held me and kissed me like he rlife depended on it. Sh etold me that she's started to feel that way a week earleir but didn;t do anything in case it wasn;t a real feeling.

It took another coule of months before Squid could openly tell me " I love you, dearly, truly". But she does now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It worked for me like Harley predicted: keep filling her $LB without lovebusting andshe will trigger love sensations for me.

Now she says she always loved me but she got distracted...

I stopped physical ( sexual-type) affection with Squid after a couple of months, and also stopped " ILY". What does "ILY actually MEAN so soon after an affair?. I replaced it with " I care for you, I want you, you're a good person" etc.

No advice really, just that lovebank is a real construct. If you invest, changes can happen.

All blessings

BOB,

one difference in our situations is that she is no longer in any contact with OM.

it is 11 weeks since DD, am i expecting to much to fast?

i have been trying to meet her en"s, and have done no lb's since this started.

i printed the EN questionaire and asked her to fill it out, but i have not sen it yet, i just gave it to her last night.

can you be more specific on what you do in a "serious plan A"?

any input appreciated,
thanks,

arjdad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>
" Look, I love you like a brother - a friend. We've grown apart. I remember what love feels like with OM. I love you but I'm not in love with you. I've felt like this for years. Get over it".

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what my wife said to me, word for word. They must be sisters. Unbelievable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I guess there's hope Bob, I was starting to believe my wife. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well at least you were loved at one time. My STBX told me she didn't love me when we got married.

How do you tell what is actually the truth, when the stories keep changing. What is really the scary part is do the WS know what the truth is when they keep changing it. How many times can you rewrite history? And each time it changes it is a "new" truth.

I heard that too. "I love you like a sister." Personally I think thats a sick statement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I was never truly loved either!

My WW has always said that she loves me. Through this whole A she has said it over and over. That is what is so odd.

If you love someone, come home and work on this M. She has told me she was starting to fall for her OM, but she did not love him.

She says she loves me, and at times I wish she would stop saying it.. It would make this easier to deal with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tom Joad:
<strong> Well at least you were loved at one time. My STBX told me she didn't love me when we got married.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife later followed up with "I didn't love you when we got married, I thought it was the right thing to do." This after we were Living together for 8 years before we got married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Then later she said "I don't know why we ever got married, our personalities are so different, we were NOT meant for each other." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I said "You tell me this now after 28 years? Why didn't you tell me when we were trying to have our first child 12 years into the marriage?"

She said "I thought it was my wifely DUTY." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Total Idiot nonsense.

EDIT: I showed her a watch she gave me in 1987 (10 years into the relationship), a very expensive watch. Inscribed on the back it said "I will always Love You" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I showed it to her and she looked away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: TA ]</small>

I heard the exact same thing from my fww. It took the normal progression:

Immediately after D-Day:
I love you like a friend
After exposure to OMW:
I never loved you
Immediately after NC:
My feelings are coming back a little
Couple hours ago:
I never stopped loving you, I must have
been out of my mind.

Hang in there, it's still pretty early.

TA,
Well, my STBX and I never lived together, but we did date for seven years. You think maybe you'd know by then.

She told me lots of times she loved me, had the inscribed jewelry, but she told me she just said that because she didn't want to hurt me. She was so dang nice ... no wonder I wanted to marry her with morals and behavior like that. I mean who wouldn't want to be tricked and lied too?

We had broken it off a few times during that 7-year period. While we were separated she made some very bad, and damaging choices.

When she told me she didn't love me when we were married She said she wanted me to rescue her... I was the steady reliable fellow. Not the "soulmate" fellow.

I guess the soulmate isn't the guy who takes care of you? He is the one that uses you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tom Joad:
<strong> TA,
Well, my STBX and I never lived together, but we did date for seven years. You think maybe you'd know by then.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I blame you, never marry anyone until you have dated at least 28 years, like I did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ January 08, 2005, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: TA ]</small>

HH,

good to hear from you. it sounds like you two are making it.unfortunately, i am not feeling so lucky here. she says it has been "years" since she loved me like she thought she should.

is it time for me to throw in the towel and give up?

i try to stay strong, but i am weakening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

arjdad

also, i don't think this is about the affair anymore

arjdad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arjdad:
<strong> also, i don't think this is about the affair anymore

arjdad </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think it's ever about the affair.

Most WS fall into an affair when their needs are not being met.

My wife is dissatisfied with me whether she is in an affair or not. I need to change me.

Plan A means 2 things, Exposing the affair and Demonstrating change (In you) that's it, period. This is what Steve Harley told me the other day.

Right now I am working on myself so my wife may see me as a different person. I need to give her an Alternative reason not to be with someone else other than me. It's the hardest work I've ever done.

arj,

Sorry. You sound like you're having a rough time of it. I can't be of much help here, but I just wanted to offer you {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}.

CC

Arjdad asked can you be more specific on what you do in a "serious plan A"?
AD, Plan A has been documented wonderfully by Ark^^, Worthatry and others but let me lay out my take on it.

I interpreted plan A has having two purposes:
1. to make my behavious completely disarm Squids cr@p rationalization that she was justified in her affair, and that I was completely bad, and OM was completely wonderful.
2. For me to remind Squid what a lovable person I am.

These two things gently push a WS away from the affair and pull her back into the M if you are lucky and blessed.

I 'lost' Squid in my heart very early on after d-day so once I grieved, I could work on Plan A without being desperate so to do. This coupled with Squid's malevolent behaviour towards me for many weeks allows me to have a sense of detachment from the process. I bound to my kids but kept Squid at an emotional arms length. her barbs didn't hurt as much then and I started to get better night's sleeps.

It also allowed me to monitor what worked and what didn't. Early on I said " ILY" a lot with many pats and strokes. She HATED this as she hit withdrawal so I backed RIGHT off. I loved her but kept my affection displays in check until Squid showed me she would welcome it.

Detachment and treating plan a like a 'project' also gave me a slightly confident air which Squid tells me now was enigmatic but disturbing to her. She realised without my saying it that I obviously wantd her, 'cos I was plan A'ing so hard BUT I didn't need her and I was fully capable of stopping when I called time.

This frightened Squid.

She first detached from OM emotionally into a sort of 'nobody loves me' no-mans land. Then she started to have feelings for me again and she fel exposed that I wasn't desperate to have her back.

We have become really very intimate recently, but we still have some way to go.
I can't say if 11 weeks is long or not for you arj. Squid still didn't 'love' me at 11 weeks. That took another couple of months to manifest but you should keep meeting ENs and making your life a safe place for your FWS to unhinge.

Just remember that its unlikely that your FWS has the same understanding of affair dynamics as you do, and she just knows that she doesn't have her heart beat faster around you yet like it did with OM. she doesn;t know yet that such is fantasy lust, not a sustainable target for loving sensations.
Stay calm, invest in yourself, monitor your effort's success and change what doesn't work.

Maybe she won't love you again....but most WS do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love her, love yourself, love God and plan A your buns off.

All blessings

<small>[ January 09, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

TA, Bob Pure,--

thanks for the help. i am going to do my best to "demonstrate change" in myself and try to remind her "what a wonderful preson i am". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

although i think our problems go back years before the A, should i still just do a good plan A?

thanks,

arjdad

Arjdad, you said although i think our problems go back years before the A, should i still just do a good plan A?

I think ALL of our problems go back to before the A. Most affairs have a 'message' to them. you two must learn what the message is of your wifes affair.

Plan A is great to stop the affair. If your FWW is in NC, that plan A LIKE behaviours are still ver useful, in meeting ENs, avoiding LBs etc, but you start to become more dynamic in making your R what you want it to be. Eventually, as your W is able to assume more responsiility, you will be in recovery.

Read HN/HN, also i would recommend 'Torn Asunder' by Dave Carder.

And love her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> MOST marriages recover from infidelity AD. MOST.

{{{{AD}}}}

Bob,-

i am reading hn/hn right now.

all she can say right now is that she is willing to try. but i know that it is only because of the kids. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . she still says she doesn't know if she loves me. at least she doesn't say she "doesn't' LOVE ME.

I AM TRYING TO CHANGE MYSELF.

she started to fill out the EN'S questionaire, but has not finished it yet.our MC has asked her before what she thought her en's are/were and she says she doesn't know. itold her, thats why she needs to fill out the form, so we can see what she needs so i can try to meet them.

thanks for your input,

arjdad

This gives me hope. I'm about 2 months into the bombshell, H still has daily contact with OW. He changes his story, but has said "I love you but I'm not in love with you". He says the "in love" feelings have been gone for 2 years (together 9, married for 5).
After his fog lifts, I hope I get some of the results I've read in this string.