Today I spoke with the Pastor that married my wife and I nearly 6 years ago. I hadn't seen him since our wedding. We spoke for an hour or so and I filled him in on my wife's and my problems and the pending divorce. As you would expect he sees the importance of the family unit and marriage. Where he does believe that there are some situations that divorce is the right decision, he does think our problem is "workoutable". He told me to think about everything we spoke about and that he'd be happy to speak with my wife if I thought it would be of benefit. Question: Would my wife resent me for bringing a Pastor into our situation? I think it would be hard for her to tell him that she didn't care to meet and speak with him. He is a very kind, warm and gentle man that I personally would have trouble saying no to. Your thoughts????<P>Thanks ahead of time.<P>Rhooks4<p>[This message has been edited by rhooks4 (edited August 14, 1999).]

Of course your pastor is perfect if he is warm and gentle. Would he try to contact her or would she have to call him?<P>Did he give you new insights? Is there something he made you see differently that you could share with your wife so she wouldn't think the two of you were ganging up on her? <P>She might initially resent you, but remember if she sees you consistantly being warm, loving and caring, she will eventually believe you are sincere.<P>In our marriage ceremony the whole church and guests pledge to support our marriage. Certainly it is the pastor's duty to try to make a positive impact.<P>I can not stress enough surrounding yourself with people that support marriage. Being a member of a church is not just about showing up for a little talk on Sunday, it is being part of a community of like minded people who both hold you accountable and support you throughout the trial of life.<P>You are really trying. I respect you for that.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I went to church service this morning at the church in my neighborhood. It actually meets at the elementary school. How ironic is it that today's sermon was on parenting and the need for strong marriages to build strong children. I see that as a sign that I was intended to go to church this morning.<P>This afternoon the Church is beginning a workshop on parenting. I told my wife about it and invited her to come along. She politely declined. Oh well, I will go alone then.<P>My wife went out yesterday evening with some friends of hers. I drove to wear her car was parked and left a note on her car that read "We Love You and Miss You Very Much! Love, Husband and Son". She told me this morning that she got the note. She called me relentless. Don't know if that is good or bad.<P>The Pastor that I spoke with did shed some light on marriage in general to me. He made me see how much I took things for granted in my marriage. He also made me realize that my controlling nature and strive for perfection is a result of my low self-esteem. He is a very kind man. I think I will ask him to call my wife and setup a time they can speak. He gave us pre-marriage counseling. I think it would be quite appropriate then for him to give us pre-divorce counseling as well.<P>rhooks4<P> <p>[This message has been edited by rhooks4 (edited August 15, 1999).]

Glad you went to church and was touched by the message.<P>Your wife must be seeing changes. She was probibly found your note unsettling. She may act irritated, but I bet it touched her more than she would admit to. I would think her friends would think it showed love on your part, too.<P>Hope it works out with your pastor. Whatever changes you make within yourself, don't give up no matter what your wife does. If, God forbid, your family does not get back together, your son needs a strong father with integrity and character. It will be even more important that he respect and want to emulate you.<P>Perhaps as a guidepost you can think of modeling your life to be what you would like your son to live one day. If you want him to be of strong character, be of strong character yourself. If you want him to treat others with kindness and compassion, do that yourself. Hold yourself to the highest standards and expectations that you would like for your son.<P>I am so sick of hearing...I just want my child to be happy. Of course we all want that, but it takes more than a magic wand or encouraging them to act on their feelings. If you encourage inner strength, the Golden Rule, academic standards and acting according to their values instead of their emotions when things get rough, I think they will have a much greater chance at happiness.<P>OK...off my soapbox.<P>Hope all goes well with your pastor. Would her mother and sisters encourage that?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I don't think her mother or sister's are doing much encouraging anymore. I think they have given up on her changing her mind. I don't know why I haven't - the writing is on the wall. I refuse to think it is over. I see her and I just know there is so much more we should experience in life. I have a lot of love left in me that I would like to show her. Thanks for your words!<P>rhooks4<P>

I sent my wife an email that had the link for the marriagebuilders forum. Here is her reply to me:<P>"I appreciate the information, but am NOT interested in checking any of these things out. It's just not where I am right now. All I've done for almost all of 1999 is worry and stress about the marriage and only now have I found solace, simply because I've made a decision for myself without looking to anyone else for approval. Your solace comes from a different place because you are feeling remorseful...right now, I just<BR>don't care to read about what others are going through and how they've fixed it. Been there, done that. Trying to solve my problems through me. <P>P.S. The flowers are beautiful. Thanks."

Just logged on. Read back over your thread. You need to keep on keeping on. You have to realize you can't force your W. No matter how bad you want things to work out, she needs time to want it too. You keep proving to her that you want your marriage to work. Don't be turned off by her reaction or lack of. She just doesn't have any trust and you've got to realize that is her right at this point. The Pastor won't change his mind. He will be there when she is ready. My word to you is to pray for God to soften her heart and to make her willing to try. You can't force something that only God can do. Know that it IS God's will for you two to be reconciled. He doesn't want your son to be a part of a fractured family.

Thank you Taj. I have never been a church goer even though my father is a Baptist preacher. Many people have been encouraging me to pray and find God. I am making that effort. I pray her heart does soften. I love her so much. <P>I am just so terrified. I see my life crumbling before my eyes and it is tearing me apart. I feel so out of control, helpless to do anything.<P>Thanks for the encouragement.<P>rhooks4

Fear can be paralyzing, I know. You need to have your wits about you. Maybe you need to talk to your Pastor alone for awhile and get some encouragement. If you are strong and assured of your desire to reconcile then your W will see that and find some assurance herself in your determination. Your Pastor is right, control in any form is not a turn on but strength and determination is. Its tough to prove that with words but time and actions do! As far as your relationship with God its pretty simple, just talk to Him. God is in the business of revealing Himself to us. Maybe this is His way of showing you He can work things out for your good. You want your W to trust you, why don't you start by trusting God to intervene in your circumstances.

Although Taj makes some good points, I know you feel you need to act because of the impending divorce. I don't think the pastor who married you calling her is inappropriate. In fact, now he knows, I can't imagine him not intervening.<P>You were 100% correct about her response to MB. Still she was polite.<P>If you ask me I don't think she wants a divorce as much as an end to her problem. Sad thing is she is not really ending her problem. She will be connected to you for life and if you are sincere, there is much less of a chance she will be hurt again by you than she would be starting all over.<P>Eventually she will still have to work through all the pain she seems to have put "on hold" but declared to be "over". <P>If you are sending notes, flowers and showing consistant love and commitment, I really think there is hope. Don't know if you will see an improvement before the D, she does seem like a freight train, but if you do not give up your unpressured loving approach, I think she will come around.<P>Either way you are making these changes for yourself and your son, so don't give up the positive things you are doing even if you believe your situation at some points is hopeless with wife. Think about it, if you are only willing to make these changes for wife, it is kind of a show, anyway. You need to want to change for yourself and your son regardless of outcome. <P>No matter what you will have grown in faith and character.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

"10 years is a lot of time, but I'm not willing or able to give us any more years. This will be a learning experience for both of us. But please understand that I am getting out of this marriage. I am not<BR>wanting to stay and work on it. Please work on yourself and quit trying to want this marriage for both of us because you're wasting time and energy trying to convince me to stay. Please concentrate on helping you."<P>My wife's latest email. These emails are killing me. Every day she seems to be growing more distant. How are we supposed to raise our son if we become more distant?<P>I will make changes in my life regardless of the outcome of my marriage. I will better myself for my son and for me. But I sure would like to do it for my wife as well.<P>I wonder if my wife will decline my Pastor's invitation to meet with him. If she does I guess that just shows how unwilling she is to deal with the problem at hand. I hope he can persuade her to listen.<P>He told me that I need to stop beating myself over what I did. How can I stop? I feel so guilty. I feel like I deserve to suffer more.<P>rhooks4<p>[This message has been edited by rhooks4 (edited August 16, 1999).]

rhooks4...you do need to stop beating yourself up. However, you are reaping the consequenses of your actions. That's different than being punished.<P>I agree that you wife does seem like a freight train right now. That does not mean she will always feel that way.<P>Obviously when you were about to have and having your affair you only thought about yourself. That is apparently where your wife is now, so you can kind of understand how nothing or no one can stop her, right now.<P>But you changed directions. She could, too. It may take months, maybe more than a year, but if you are really serious about the vow you took and about raising your son in a two parent family, then committing to a year or two of waiting for your wife regardless of what she does (unless of course she marries) does not seem unreasonable.<P>If you treated her badly (or if that's what she is remembering) in other ways besides the affair, then she will need overwelming evidence that your changes are for real and forever. <P>She does seem to be distancing, but that doesn't mean you have to change courses.<P>Just be sure you are not being controlling or manipulative. Just consistantly loving, caring and patient.<P>You're up to it!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

You are correct, when I was having the affair, I was thinking only about myself. However, I did rationalize it. I told myself that my son needs happy parents whether or not we are together. What a crock! I was out of my mind at the time. I consider it almost being temporarily insane. No one could have told me to break it off, so I do understand where my wife is at. I really do. It is just hard to sit on your hands when you see that someone isn't looking at the whole picture or isn't thinking rationally. Part of my controlling nature is to show them that they aren't seeing the whole picture.<P>I guess I haven't forgiven myself for my sin. I know I can't take it back, and I know how sorry I am. Does that mean I should forgive myself. I know God will fogive me, and has forgiven me. Does this mean I should forgive myself?<P>Thank you!<P>rhooks4<p>[This message has been edited by rhooks4 (edited August 16, 1999).]

rhooks4,<P>YES you must forgive yourself! You and I sound a lot alike. I'm a bit of a controler too. You must let go of the need to control. People who like to control are trying to prove something to someone else. It's a symptom of low self image as is beating yourself up. Stop it! Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. In the big picture, you must live with yourself. No way to divorce yourself now is there? Don't make it worse by hurting yourself with these thoughts. Say to yourself that you are a worthy person, that you will do the best you can in every thing you do given the gifts God gave you. That's all any of us can do. Go easy on yourself.

Yes you must forgive yourself. Easier said than done.<P>This is something to talk through a Christian couselor or a Pastor with.<P>There are also some good Christian Books on the subject. I have the Forgiveness Workbook by Carter and Minirth. It is more from the perspective of forgiving other people, but it could help you sort out was forgiveness is and what it is not.<P>Maybe you should keep up on couseling sessions with old pastor, too...or the church you attended may have excellent resourses.<P>You need peace regardless of the outcome of your situation<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13