Katie, what is your real reason to stay M at all?

Weakness is not good enough...

Actually, I don’t understand why to stay in that M…
H is sweet but not beloved, NO KIDS (H even doesn’t want?), no attraction, just 'as old buddies'?, no love…
On the other hand OM belongs to his family…

Why not just leave both of them?

katie

I'm a FWW too so I know all about the fears you are facing, I still face them to this day in some ways.

You have been given so much great advice from JL & pepper and Mortarman and just everyone.

THERE IS NO EASY WAY OUT.

It really is that simple.

You do need to tell your H and like my H he really does have the right to decide if he wants to stay M to you.

If he does there is a lot of work to do.

YOU have some absolutly basic needs to have children, and yes though I know he said he didn't want kids before you were M the truth is how many women truly believe such a statement when so young??? Don't think I'm giving you an excuse here, I just saying its probably not realistic to expect a young women to truly understand the long term impact of such an agreement.
That said, if he does not want kids EVER, you have a decison to make as well, maybe not right away but not too far down the track either, it would not be fair to your H to let him think he can save the M if its a non negotiable emotional need for you.

I really do recommend you get professional pro M counselling on this.

Listen to what has been said and follow he recommendations, ther really is no other way if you want out of this mess.

Katie,

Are you serious? For real.. or are you hear just trying to feel a bit better for the crap [censored] of a wife you've been?

If your serious, and you really mean it... tell the OM's wife! That pretty much will take care of it for you. Then, you can deal with the emotions of getting dumped too!

Then tell your husband, or vice versa.. tell you husband and follow it up with a phone call to the OM's wife.

Anything but an admission from the beginning of recovery is a fake attempt at recovering. Quit lying to yourself. (I say this because how many time have you told yourself already.. it's over, no more, not again... and even told him the same thing.. and ended up right where you are...) Tell his wife. I'm guessing she will definitely help you out on the no contact department.

Katie,

Hi again. i really need to read the entire thread but i wanted to say Hi again. JL is right, i can relate very much with you and i would like to help, which is why i posted to you yesterday. but i couldn't post much more than a HI because of what was going on with me.

JL, boy did you get a laugh out of me when i read your post. i do appreciate your vote of confidence but i laughed cuz of what my week has been like. i've been struggling the last few weeks, long story but the bottomline is i was back slidding BIG time. not to the point of doing anything horrible, but back sliding just the same.. and i have not even been able to post much. i almost did late last night. but didn't. then this morning i did something shocking, i talked directly to my H about it. even before getting any urging from here. and the good news is, i talked to H cuz i wanted to, 100% on my own. ok, i am probably being too vague here to be making ANY sense and this is Katie's thread. if i open a new thread, you can comment more then.

i've gained a lot from this forumn and i want to be able to give back to others now. although i am not sure i am capable of giving back yet, when i read your topic, i thought it was time to try to give back some.

Katie,

The first and best way for you to be able to stop the addiction is telling your husband. Why? Because the secret will be out. And secrecy is the main ingredient behind affairs.

The next reason? After you see the utter pain in your husband's eyes...it will forever taint the feelings you have for OM. So, when you get that feeling that you want to be with him, all you have to do is remember your husband's reaction to your betrayal to help put a "cold shower" on those feelings.

While having other friends are nice, the best help you can get is your husband and the OMW. Until you get those two in the loop and get this out in the open, the pain and guilt are going to eat you alive. As well as the addiction.

So, keep pushing it off...and keep causing yourself a lot of pain. You are not sparing your husband pain by not telling him. You are prolonging it, because he KNOWS something isnt right. And you go off on that vacation, and he has in his mind how things were...and then comes back to you telling him of the A...that vacation will be a sham to him!! He will regret ever to have gone with you. But, you tell him now, and use that trip as a chance to have time to work thru some things (pain, guilt, withdrawal, etc)...then this trip could be the beginning of your new marriage.

But, until you do the right thing...the pain is mounting on him...and you. Dont you think you have inflicted enough on each other for a lifetime? Well, stop it now. Do the right thing NOW. And while there will be pain because of past events...there wont be any new pain being heaped on the two of you.

Time to stop talking about it and just do it. There isnt going to be a better time...just a worse one.

In His arms.

(((Katie)))
You are going through withdrawal, and it is indeed hard. You just need to expect it to be hard for a little while. But it's going to get better. Trust that.
Pepperband had some good suggestions. Speaking to your doctor about some anti-anxiety or anti-depressant medication would not be inappropriate right now. Medication can blunt the worst effects of withdrawal, which can help you GET THROUGH IT instead of re-initiating contact in order to alleviate the symptoms.
I won't address when you should tell your husband. You have the arguments for doing it now. Certainly, if your husband knows, you'll have a much better chance of maintaining no contact.
But aside from that, it is important that you try to take good care of yourself physically right now. Get your rest, take your vitamins, and don't forget to eat. You're vulnerable to becoming sick from stress, and being sick will just make things harder.
Do what you can to stay away from your means of communicating with OM. Lock your cellphone in a drawer. Change your personal email account. Whatever.
Do something nice for your husband. If nothing else, this expresses a faith in your future.
As Pepperband said, stay away from all sappy romantic/heartbreak stuff: movies, music, books. I just read a book that is freaking hilarious: The Stupidest Angel: A Heartwarming Tale of Christmas Terror by Christopher Moore. Something like that is good for keeping your mind off OM. And it gives you something to talk about with your husband.
I know this is a hard time. But I know you can do this. Please don't let the withdrawal symptoms scare you into making contact again. If you can maintain no contact, you will be making the first steps to recovery and you will have so much to be thankful at that point.

(((Katie)))

katie, i just read the entire thread now. you have been given good advice. and the key truely is honesty. it took me a while to get there. i know there are many here saying tell him right NOW!!! in my case, i think it helped that i had some time after ending the A. last time i was with OM was in nov 2003, i found MB in dec, 2003. i did not confess about that A until Mar 2004 and then in oct i confessed about other men i had been with during 2001-2003 (all from the internet except for one guy who WAS a "good" friend of ours) as well as an A that occured while we were engaged with a fellow college student and then 5yrs into the marriage with a co-worker. so as you can see, you are not alone here nor are you the worst person in the world (not that i am trying to say i am either!)

to me it seems like the first order is to get you un-addicted. that is NOT going to be easy. i know, i attempted NC for a long time. we had so many "break ups" each one hurt so much. the amount of pain i put myself thru is ridiculous however it was obviously necessary.

you say OM's response to you trying to stop is intense. one way to keep what he says from getting to you is to NOT COMMUNICATE WITH HIM.

the OM in my case didn't try to force me to stay but he did not stop letting me know he was there anytime i wanted and then i would get weak and want... the last time he called, july 2004, i told if he called again, it would be my husband that would be returning the call, that i had confessed. that sure did the trick.

of course by then i HAD told my H. i also went home that day and told my H about the contact and what i had just told the OM. H was upset because he didn't expect any farther contact to occur, but we got passed it and OM has not attempted contact again. of course i also blocked his email address, because changing my address was not an option, and i changed my cell phone number. so as you can see. confessing to your H can help you.

however i do think it would also help you if you stuck around here for a while and got stronger. at least i think that helped me. and in turn that has helped my H.

for me, reading and posting here kept me from connecting with the OM. and eventually i was even able to confess. although sometimes i feel everything would of been ok if i had just forgotten it all and worked on the marraige without confessing but i 100% know that that plan is unrealistic. if you truely want a close/intimate relationship with this man, your H, you have to be honest with him.

keep posting here!!!

Thank you all! I am having a hard day, and after I posted this morning the OM sent me an email (we both sell on Ebay and he sent me a link he wanted me to "check out"... thanks dude.) I've been out and about trying to keep my mind off of him and as soon as I got home I decided I might just die if I didn't call him, but then I read your posts and I'm not going to do it... thank you FinallyLearningT2M... I don't know how ready I am to rock my H's world or the OM's family's world... he has 5 kids, 2 of his own and 3 step kids... I work with kids and the thought of this just KILLS me... it also kills me that his 2nd W raised all these kids and I've intruded on something that should be beautiful... I'll keep reading and posting, and hoping I get the courage to do the right thing at some point, I just look in my H's eyes and don't have the nuts to have him see me for the person I really am...

katie,

i'm glad the posts helped you.

can't you change your email address????

he is NOT being a friend to you Katie, do you see that? you say, leave me alone, this relationship is bringing me pain and he sends you an ebay link?? if you cannot change your email address you can certainly put his email address on the blocked list.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't have the nuts to have him see me for the person I really am... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Katie, you are a person made by God and God does NOT make junk! you have to first believe that you are beautiful before you will ever be able to believe that your husband can see beauty in you. there is beauty in all of us.

stay strong, keep reading here, keep learning, keep growing and you will be able to open yourself up to your H so he can see the person you really are. if you don't live in a way that allows you and he to be that intimate, what kind of marriage do you really have? what kind of marriage do you want?

The OM is actually on my blocked list which is a crazy story... the last time we broke up I disabled my personal account that I used with him and if he emails me at all, it's at my work address (where I put him on my blocked list but guess what? When you put someone on that list it creates a "blocked list" folder, and whenever he emails me I am notified that I have a new message there! Isn't that nuts??) I know the OM is not a friend, he is an addict who is looking for a fix by talking to me, as I am looking for a fix by responding... he is not respecting me by agreeing to my wishes and I am not respecting myself by talking to him after I've asked him to leave me alone... it's insane.

It's embarassing for me to say what I really want in a marriage because I am not taking the steps necessary to create it (in fact I am back stepping, although I think being here and educating myself helps.) Thank you for saying there is beauty in me... I know I'm a good person in many areas of my life but this isn't one of them... it makes me feel good to be supported by people who understand what I'm going through, and let me know what I need to hear in order to heal... thank you all!

Katie,
I understand you're afraid of your husbands reactions...as well you should be. But, give his love a chance to prove itself (himself). Fear is not something of God, it's something Satan is feeding you with... so, do the opposite, follow the Lord.

Sorry to go all Churchy on you..but, just a part of me. Think back on your life, look at choices you made...which was the path you took, the easy road or the hard road? Was the hard road the one you should have taken looking back? Take it now.

Quitting, not telling the truth, those are all the easy way outs...do you think you will ever really recover if you quit this without being honest? I bet not.

Okay, here's something else I've been struggling with... if I tell my H, not only is he going to be devistated but so is his family... if my H decides to stay and work on our M, how do I work on things with my inlaws? Has anyone had this experience? My H's brother's 1st W had an A and it was the family scandal... they got a D and five years later people still talk about it... are there steps you take to make things right with your inlaws?

That is a whole different issue, and hopefully a road that the two of you can cross together.

This is why it is important for people to marry people of the same faith and belief system. That way, when trouble comes, and it will, they both have a road map to follow. For my wife and I, bibically, it's simple, you leave your family to be with your spouse...if my family chooses to be unforgiving to my wife, I will simply cut them out of my life.... harsh, for sure, but my wife is my wife, and she comes before any other person on this planet.

Quit finding excuses for yourself. Worry about one thing only right now, how you can love your husband properly, in light of what you have done. Believe me, if you love him right, you can make it through this... (you, not necessarily your marriage, but you...)

It is a decision for later on...about your in laws...and welcome to the world of large sin, and huge area of impact. That is why they are so devastating, because the area of impact is so broad, soemthing so simple as your next door neighbor might have been having troubles...hears you had an affair, then in turn sees your marriage getting fixed, so she chooses to have her own, out of ignorance.... just sooo many twists we never even consider.

katie,

can't you turn off logging. that is what i did. any email gets deleted and i have no idea that it ever came. look into it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's embarassing for me to say what I really want in a marriage because I am not taking the steps necessary to create it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">start saying it. and we can help you get a plan to get there.

regarding the in-laws, i liked rook's response. and i also have to wonder. why do they even have to know?? my MIL and BIL were not told anything. my H has no intention of telling them either.

Katie,

Withdrawal is part of the recovery process. It is a sign that you are trying to do the right thing and your addiction doesn't like it. I know first hand what that withdrawal is like. It's fairly predictable that it will last 2-3 weeks. During that time there may be times that it seems like it's gone and other times it comes on suddenly and feels overwhelming. Obsession. That's the word for what is happening when our mind keeps making up excuses for us to call or email or go see somone and it seems we just can't seem to stop thinking about it. Here is what helped me when I've gone through withdrawal:

1. Turn to God to help you with this. Consider this from the SLAA book:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"To use the Biblical expression of the 'cup that runneth over,' we were like cups that had run over with obsession--with neediness, lust, and intrigue. Step 3 ("Made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we undersood God."), as a spiritual exercise, suggested that we could choose to tip our own cup over and let the sickness run out of it. We knew having done this, we could NOT refill the cup through our unaided will, because we had become convinced that any solitary attempt to do so would inevitably take on the obsessive/compulsive character of our personalities. We could not outwit our addictive natures. The enemy was US.

We could see that if we were ever to be as cups running over with redeemed, non-addictive lives, then some Power greater than ourselves would have to do the refilling. Such a Power would do that in His own time, according to His scheme of things, not our own.

What would our lives be like, we wondered, if we were really to empty our chalice of disease and refrain from refilling it again ourselves, and instead let it be filled EVENTUALLY through God's grace? We simply could not know. There were no guarantees. All we knew was that we did not want to go back into our active sex and love addiction again. The certain hopelessness of THAT condition, were we to go back, compelled us to move forward into the unknown. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Personally I conditioned myself to respond to the anxious emptiness of withdrawal by reminding myself that a wrong choice constituted refilling my cup and kept me from experiencing what God wanted to fill me with instead.

The other key piece for me was making phone calls. I would call other people in recovery and just let them know that I was obsessing or feeling empty. Just the ACT of making the call (even if I just reached someone's voice mail and left a message) helped me past the times of intense craving when the obsession seemed unbearable. I could not do this alone.

You know what the great thing is? When the obsession is lifted, the relief is enormous and you will really look back and wonder how you could've been so crazy! There are better days ahead!

Katie, you remind me of myself before I quit smoking.

I wanted to WANT to quit.

Think about it.
PM

hi katie, how you doing?? thinking of you.

Katie, please read this thread on withdrawal. I’m sure it will be of some extra help and insight to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,
Suzet

<small>[ January 13, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Katie,

I usually don't post in this forum, but I have an important question to ask you re: telling your H. You said in an earlier post that after an argument, your H physically forced you to have sex with him. It's not clear if you meant when you began dating, or at the beginning of your marriage (which wasn't that long ago).

Be honest with us...in addition to that event, is your H *ever* physically violent, or even physically threatening to you? Meaning, even if he doesn't hit you, does he throw things in your general direction, etc.?

If you've worked through that horrible event with your H, and you have reason to believe that he is not a physical threat to you in any manner, then telling him is certainly crucial to your recovery.

But he has been violent with you in the past when angry with you. And if you have *any* reason to think he may become violent if you reveal your affair, you must take necessary precautions.

I hope I'm worried over nothing. But noone has even mentioned that event since you posted about it. I think it must be considered, for your safety.

Respectfully,
Martes

Thank you for all of your support... I don't think I'm ready to be here yet, I just got back from spending the whole morning with the OM... you know, to talk about how I want to work things out with my H and we're over... needless to say we had sex and I don't think it's over eventhough I "want" it to be... like you said papermom, it's like quitting smoking (which I just did... one week smoke free!)... the three stages, I should quit, I want to quit, I'm going to quit... I definitely am in the "want" to stage but I don't know if I am really ready yet... I think I'll keep reading here... thank you for the thread on withdrawal, not like I used any of it this morning when I really needed it... it will be good for me to have when I'm really ready to use it. Also, thank you Martes for being concerned about my H reacting violently... that incident at the beginning of our relationship (10 years ago) was the only time he was that way... well, it's happened a couple of other times also (partially my fault because I let him get away with it... the last time it happened I didn't though and it hasn't happened since then) but it's more sexual dominance for control than physical violence... gosh, this sounds awful! Anyway, I have to go to work now... thanks again for your concern and advice (a big hug to you, FinallyLearning-T2M and XScoundrel) but I don't know if I'll be posting anymore until I finally do what in my heart I want to do... maybe I need to go back into IC... thank you again!