2long,

Why u endure such a treatment ?

-rh-

rh:

Well, if you noticed, most of my feelings were my fault for not continuing the convo, or asking that we pick it up later.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> rh:

Well, if you noticed, most of my feelings were my fault for not continuing the convo, or asking that we pick it up later.

-ol' 2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">U R 2 predictable ... you can't always blame yourself. Where is hers ?. It isn't time for her to take actions too ?

We get the treatment that we allow other done on us.

-rh-

rh:

You're right.

I'm going 2 delete that post now. I don't really feel comfortable with it there for long.

-ol' 2long

2long,

Our sitchs are more alike than either of us realized. Arrrgh.

T

PS: Penny has been waving her 2x4 at me last coupel days, too...

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Thos ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>I don't really feel comfortable with it there for long.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, why didn't u feel comfi. about it ?. Those are your real supressed feelings and emotions ... why u denied yourself even a vent in here ?.

If unrepentant xWW (mrs long this is not to offend u but my point of view) read it ... so be it. Don't you have to hear her about OM during withdrawal ?. Your takers start to show up ... which is very natural instinct of self preservation.

Listen, you both are in a circular causality ... one of you have to make a move to break this cycle. Ending A is not the goal in here ... even NC w/ OM is not the goal in here ... working on M is the goal here such that both of you could reap the benefit of fullfilin M.

This is 2x4.

What to do with unrepentant xWW ?. Be open and honest about your feeling and give her a chance to be a repentant xWW to earned W position again. Set at time limit to stop the enablement to stop denying yourself. You, for all people, know that if 4 rules of recovery are not implemented right after A ended ... it would create resentment from BS and xWS !. The longer both of u wait the slimer the prognosis. U could snaped at any time now ... u could say u won't cheat but you might just Dv in a rush and not look back to clear the legality if there is a gal that above W in all catagories. xWW could call OM back ... the condition of M before A has not been changed, A seems like an escapade.

You need to end this to give choice to your unrepentant xWW. She knows what she need to do ... she is capable of doing it ... let her make a choice. Stop the cycle and you need to let it go. If she won't, both of you could agree how to end this M. It is a misery for you and it is a misery for her ... let her go.

"if you love someone let 'em go"

You are not quiting you are ending the misery for both of you.

-rh-

rh:

"Again, why didn't u feel comfi. about it ?. Those are your real supressed feelings and emotions ... why u denied yourself even a vent in here ?."

Because she wouldn't like our personal life 2 be talked about at that level here. And, because I sent it 2 Penny via email (though she hasn't responded yet).

"If unrepentant xWW (mrs long this is not to offend u but my point of view) read it ... so be it. Don't you have to hear her about OM during withdrawal ?."

Nope. She NEVER talks about OM, even when I knew they were still in contact. Not until I'd asked her about contact (and usually after I had discovered it on my own). I know she's probably experiencing withdrawl, but she won't talk 2 me about it.

"Your takers start to show up ... which is very natural instinct of self preservation."

You bet.

"Listen, you both are in a circular causality ... one of you have to make a move to break this cycle. Ending A is not the goal in here ... even NC w/ OM is not the goal in here ... working on M is the goal here such that both of you could reap the benefit of fullfilin M."

Very good point. One that I know, but tend 2 forget every few months!

"This is 2x4.

What to do with unrepentant xWW ?. Be open and honest about your feeling and give her a chance to be a repentant xWW to earned W position again. Set at time limit to stop the enablement to stop denying yourself. You, for all people, know that if 4 rules of recovery are not implemented right after A ended ... it would create resentment from BS and xWS !. The longer both of u wait the slimer the prognosis. U could snaped at any time now ... u could say u won't cheat but you might just Dv in a rush and not look back to clear the legality if there is a gal that above W in all catagories. xWW could call OM back ... the condition of M before A has not been changed, A seems like an escapade."

This is true.

"You need to end this to give choice to your unrepentant xWW. She knows what she need to do ... she is capable of doing it ... let her make a choice. Stop the cycle and you need to let it go. If she won't, both of you could agree how to end this M. It is a misery for you and it is a misery for her ... let her go.

"if you love someone let 'em go"

You are not quiting you are ending the misery for both of you."

Also true.

Once again, much of what I posted I'd rather not leave here, but the gist was my asking, playfully, for SF.

W: "I still don't feel safe with you."
Me: "I don't feel safe either. What can I do 2 help you 2 feel safer?"
W: "I don't know."

What I can't put in a post is the tone, or how we're getting along. We're working 2gether on our house and preparations for our D's wedding in March. Usually, we're cheerful 2gether, but obviously there are unresolved issues that we must get over our CA and address. I think I did a decent, if not thorough, job of breaking the ice with that convo. My W was happier in our interactions the rest of the day through this morning when I left for work. I KNOW I need 2 pick the ball up again and run with it. But you all need 2 realize just how stifling our CA has been, and for how long - probably way more than 14 years.

I have a lot of my life invested in our 29=yr M and family. *WE* need professional help, but my W is unwilling at this time. I think she believes it will take care of itself or it won't - she's pretty fatalistic in that regard. *I* still sometimes want 2 just RUN AWAY (probably why she doesn't feel safe - though I haven't vocalized that in nearly a year now, when I DID run away for a 2ple of weeks). I also want very much 2 do this "right". I'm just struggling with how 2 go about it.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>I also want very much 2 do this "right". I'm just struggling with how 2 go about it.

-ol' 2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2long, There is no right and wrong way to go about it ... only make sure you choose the one the you could live with. However stats go pretty much against you if you drag this way 2long. Staying put is not an option, you just going around in this circular causality.

Hang in there -rh-

Penny never waves 2x4s. She opposes such violent images quite strongly.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Emerson, Lake and Palmer, "Trilogy"

"I've tried to mend
The love that ended
Long ago although we still pretend
Our love is surely coming to an end
Don't waste the time you've got to love again

We tried to lie
But you and I
Know better than to let each other lie
The thought of lying to you makes me cry
Counting up the time that's passed us by

I've sent this letter hoping it will reach your hand
And if it does I hope that you will understand

That I must leave in a while
And though I smile
You know the smile is only there to hide
What I'm really feeling deep inside
Just a face where I can hang my pride

Goodbye...
Goodbye...

We'll talk of places that we went
And times that we have spent
Together penniless and free

You'll see the day another way
And they could put the sunshine
for a nighttime where you lay

You're love began I don't know when
But if you do I know that
you'll be happy in the end"

in a bad mood 2day. Vent song.

-ol' 2long

OK. I stand corrected. it just felt like one.

I'm am still reeling, trying to come up with an answer for her.

T

Thos:

What was the 2uestion? Or would you rather not air it?

-ol' 2long

2long, the way the figure keeps changing in your thread title is cracking me up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

I sucked this out of Just_J's google thread, as it gets more specific and appropriate 2 this thread:

I was ac2ally amazed 2 find just how common a name "2long" is (967 hits). I knew that my other moniker, "Qfwfq" is well-known, because of the character in Italo Calvino's short stories (7670 hits).

When I did a search for 2long, I got an MB hit on the first page, because I'd recently posted it. Qfwfq, I gave up looking after about the 5th page.

It would be far easier for someone that knows me 2 log in 2 MB forums (if they know I come here, even OM could do this), and look for posts with titles that might ring familiar 2 them. And you guys know how criptic my titles can be! But that would definitely be the easiest way 2 find me.

Does it bother me? I will have 2 think about that. I think any such hypothetical 2long-searcher would have 2 know who I am, find my posts, and then accidentally find Faith's photo thread (which isn't often on page 1 of GQII, after all), in order 2 see what I look like (and maybe confirm that it's me), but if they went 2 that much trouble, they'd probably be pretty sure it was me before they found the pic2re.

Again, does it bother me? I guess the corrollary Q is what would the searcher gain by looking my stuff up? For most of my tenure here, I've not been hard on my W, though even little things cause her 2 take serious offense, even now (like that I was coaching with Penny!). Over the past 3 years, particularly since we stopped going 2 MC 2gether in June of 2002, I've given more "ground" 2 my W's wishes than I've taken. The few times I've snooped, even, feel now like they served more 2 drive contact further underground than helped our M. I suspect contact has resumed after all, or it never stopped.

So, over the weekend, I ac2ally seriously considered the possibility of printing out every one of my threads, and organizing them by date, and then print out every thread I've contributed 2, and organizing them by date, and handing them (probably in a very large number of heavy boxes) 2 my W 2 peruse at her leisure.

Every thing I say or do for/with my W, I run the risk of OM hearing about or otherwise knowing about. I could paranoize myself in2 the nuthouse worrying about that. And frankly, I've done nothing that, taken as a whole, I would be ashamed of.

And it might just be the best way for me 2 get past the CA hurdle I face and choke on every single day. My W almost never reads anything I give her 2 read, with the exception of a very small part of "Passionate Marriage", and part or all of "Why We Love" (which was ac2ally suggested 2 her by Penny during one convo they had last summer). If she didn't want 2 read what *I* wrote, it might pretty drammatically show me that my efforts over the past 3 years are utterly wasted, at least so far as saving my M is concerned.

-ol' 2long

Okay, 2Long, I'll not pretend to have read all the stuff about your situation, but let me tell you this.

I keep seeing this stuff about you retiring, calling it quits, not posting, etc.

Let me just say that I've found your insight meaningful over there on my eternal thread. If you leave, there will be others in the future who will miss out on your fresh perspective.

So, I vote thumbs down on you leaving.

Georgia

gg:

Thanks for the vote!

Sometimes, though, my "fresh perspective" feels rather stale.

but that's because I find myself expecting something 2 change in a big way, and it never reallly has in the past 3 years.

The corrollary 2 that, of course, is that I'm usually more content when my expectations aren't so high! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Just keep in mind that your perspective is always fresh to those who haven't heard it before. You don't have to say something unique to each person, just stick with what you have to say.

GG

The corrollary 2 that, of course, is that I'm usually more content when my expectations aren't so high! [Wink] [Eek!] [Big Grin]

Keep your expectations high. People usually rise to our expectations, as high or as low as they are.

I see resentment in this thread 2long. Becomming more and more evident that you need to do something. Or you my cosmos friend run the risk of ending your own marriage.

You want more passion, then be more passionate. You want her to read a book?... then take off all your clothes and stand naked in front of her and start reading the book to her. GET her attention. Show her who you are, what you desire, what you need. BE vulnerable.

Step out of your comfort zone and make it happen.

I am the last person to give marriage advice, as I have never managed to maintain a romantic relationship longer than 3 years, but I HATE to see a longterm marriage with children fail. It takes away from my hope, and my faith.

Hang in there old man. You can do this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please don't let resentment build anymore than I read it building here.

And I only call you "old man" to get your attention. I (and Merlin) know that you are actually getting younger every year.

Now if I can step out of my comfort zone and post like this to someone of your caliber, then so can you step out of your comfort zone and get your wife's attention.