</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet if I tell her she is wrong about how she feels, that I seldom feel perfect and often wonder what to do next, she will feel like I'm putting her down.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not flinging anything, please don't take this wrong..I'm just offering up a woman's point of view.

My H was in the same boat as you, trying to convince me I was "wrong" about how I felt.

It took me FOREVER...and he still slips frequently...my FEELINGS are NEVER wrong...and neither are HIS, or YOURS or your W's.

A feeling, is an emotion, it's not to be judged right or wrong.

Try this.. and you'll see a different reaction...
trying agreeing with her..and VALIDATING her feeling. I know this sounds ridiculous..but it's the truth. Women seek validation for their feelings...with validation, and acceptance, they are more prone to look at the feeling from a different perspective because she's wasting less time trying to convince someone this is how she feels.

Acknowledge the feeling, and ask her what you can do to help her work through it. Ask her if there is something specific, sometimes it's not the words, it's the tone.

I know this all sounds like dribble..and it may very well be just that..dribble. I just wanted to tell you what a MBer would do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet if I tell her she is wrong about how she feels, that I seldom feel perfect and often wonder what to do next, she will feel like I'm putting her down.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not flinging anything, please don't take this wrong..I'm just offering up a woman's point of view.

My H was in the same boat as you, trying to convince me I was "wrong" about how I felt.

It took me FOREVER...and he still slips frequently...my FEELINGS are NEVER wrong...and neither are HIS, or YOURS or your W's.

A feeling, is an emotion, it's not to be judged right or wrong.

Try this.. and you'll see a different reaction...
trying agreeing with her..and VALIDATING her feeling. I know this sounds ridiculous..but it's the truth. Women seek validation for their feelings...with validation, and acceptance, they are more prone to look at the feeling from a different perspective because she's wasting less time trying to convince someone this is how she feels.

Acknowledge the feeling, and ask her what you can do to help her work through it. Ask her if there is something specific, sometimes it's not the words, it's the tone.

I know this all sounds like dribble..and it may very well be just that..dribble. I just wanted to tell you what a MBer would do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you are saying she should feel right about having an affair, about breaking up our family and the family of the other guy.

This is where I have a really hard time with the feelings are right thing.

She says, it was a mistake to get married.

So I validate, it must have felt awful to not feel loved.

I guess you don't understand, I do validate when I get a chance to speak with her.

I called her three times this week to verify two pickups of YD. I called Monday night and left a message, asking her to confirm the pickup.

No return call.

I called again Tuesday morning, again left a voice mail, no return call.

I called Thursday night confirming the Friday pickup, left voice mail. Again no return call.

So what is there to validate, she doesn't say a darn thing.

I'd be happy to listen to validate, to work with her. Just gotta get her off the phone with the OM and even looking my way.

So what does MB have to solve this issue?

TB

Bob,

No, my marriage did not recover. I firmly believe that following MB principles made it less likely to recover, and in addition resulted in my children and I being left in poverty.

Well I will tell you that MB helped save my M. But even if I ended up divorced I know that it was because my W failed the M not me or the MB principles. MB principles helped make me a better person.

I was a better person for either my W or the woman would have been the next Mrs. S&C.

So I'll say it again; if I ended up getting a D, then it was my W that failed the M.

Bless you.

S&C

Bob,

No, my marriage did not recover. I firmly believe that following MB principles made it less likely to recover, and in addition resulted in my children and I being left in poverty.


Nellie, I am sorry to hear that ? If it is not too traumatic to you, would it be possible to detail the ways in which MB helped finally end your M and cause financial hardship in your lives?

"negative" testomony can sometimes teach more than 'positive' words.

I completely understand if you cannot or will not talk about this though.

All blessings to you and your children.

I have admittedly not read all of this thread...

Bottom line is this: Principles don't make things work; people do.

The reason for why a marriage works or doesn't is the two people involved. Period.

HOWEVER, using the MB principles as a guide instead of continually running around without direction or hope or support in the dark gives one a whole better percentage of having that marriage work, dont you think?

"Give a man a fish and you have him eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life."

MB is a tool--a proven tool. But who are the users of this tool? The users are ultimately responsible for reading the instructions.

Nellie...in regards to your particualr sit...I am so sorry things didn't work out...really I am. I think what Bob asks is legitimate, but certainly I think most of us would understand if you didn't want to answer.

Blessings,
LINY

Nellie,
There are some repercussions of Plan A and Plan B that I believe are truly harmful, not only to the prospect of saving the marriage but also to the self-esteem and financial well-being of the BS.
What is harmful in these plans?

In retrospect, I suspect I would have been better off had I never stumbled upon this site 6 years ago.
And here you are, 6 years later posting...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ? Why?

java,
How do you protect someone from a mis-perception.
You can't. The only thing you can do is make clear what your meanings/intentions are and follow through with it (say what you mean, mean what you say).
How they choose to interpret or deal with this is up to them.
I don't think MB is perfect.
I don't think all marriages can/should be saved (using MB or anything else for that matter).

If the other person is not willing or able to do anything to save the marriage, the marriage will not be saved. Using MB, you cannot force them to do anything.
And this is one thing MB is designed for. To help you to change yourself (for the better, not simply to get your spouse back) and to help you realize that you cannot change how someone acts.

Yet if I tell her she is wrong about how she feels
Why is it okay for you to tell her how or what she feels is right or wrong?
Feelings are not right or wrong. They are good or bad or indifferent. You can feel good or bad about something because of information you have which may be correct or incorrect. But the feelings themselves are not right or wrong.

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

^bump^

119 Votes 76%(91) Yes, 24%(28) No

Chris,

I sometimes wonder why myself. You and I came to this board around the same time - as I recall, your wife left within a few days of when my husband did. I sometimes wonder why you are still here, as well, not that I have a problem with it, or that it's any of my business. One reason I am still here is that occasionally I have the opportunity to warn someone to protect their financial interests, which is often forgetten while trying to restore your marriage.

Bob,

I don't mind discussing my story, not that it is terribly interesting. My nephew was murdered, our eldest daughter left for college, we had to sell our business because it wasn't making enough to support us, my H sank into a rather deep depression, followed by an affair. Out of the blue, a few hours after we had offered on a new house, he announced he wanted a divorce. The next night he deserted me and our 6 kids, and moved into the OW's house (unbeknownst to me).

I don't know if I could have done it, but I would have been far better off financially had I divorced him immediately. I could have had a financial settlement that allowed us to live reasonably. I probably should have agreed to a divorce on the condition that he let us move out of state, so that we could actually afford to live. He managed to lose his job and stay unemployed for two and a half years, and since then has been earning a pittance.

Letting him know that I still loved him, and treating him decently, just allowed him to walk all over me. "Plan B" certainly did not make me lose my love for him - contrary to what MB claims, love is permanent.

It became obvious to me during the last six years that when your spouse leaves for an OP, by far the most important thing is to make sure you get the best financial settlement upfront you can, because guaranteed he will manage to leave his family destitute. Money may not be everything, but it is extremely important when you don't have any. Not having enough money to live on has ruined my children's childhoods, made it impossible for them to get the quality of college educations that they should have, and left them as well as I tens of thousands of dollars in debt. I have no idea how I am going to pay for college every year until 2018 when my youngest will graduate, even with the substantial need-based and merit scholarships that they qualify for.

Infidelity, at least on the part of men, is ALL about money and/or power. My H left when he found a rich woman to support him (he, according to his court documents, pays NO rent or utilities, and drives a car that is worth ten of mine), while rich men typically find younger, beautiful women. My H admitted that it was largely about money, that he couldn't separate his feelings about not having enough money from his feelings about me. After he left he blamed me for not having gone back to work sooner, and staying home to raise our six children, including a developmentally delayed toddler, instead. He had never mentioned previously that he wanted me to go back to work.

Lastly, reading here over a period of six years has made me realize that infidelity and desertion are not the aberrations I had thought they were. Over and over I read of cases where the WS physically attacks the BS, completely deserts the children like Chris' wife did, or steals huge sums of money from the family and spends it on the OW, drugs or alcohol. In many of these cases the BS is completely blindsided, the WS having previously been a good, caring father or mother.

It has become all too obvious that no one can be trusted as far as you can throw him/her. I suspect I would be a lot happier if I had never realized how much evil there was in the world - I will never forget how, right around the time of 9/11 my husband chose to demonstrate his love for his kids by announcing as they were driving home from dinner that he had married the OW, and then proceeding to completely ignore their tears. Or how he told them that they could not visit him if they "disturbed the atmosphere" in the OW's house. Or how he has called one child on her birthday exactly once in 6 years, and the others not at all on theirs. Up until the day he left, I would have sworn he loved his children with all his heart. It really doesn't help to read that other spouses are just as bad, and sometimes even worse. Nor does it help to realize that in almost every case when people remarry, even when no affair is involved, the new spouse would really prefer if the children were to disappear.

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Nellie2 ]</small>

Nellie
Thanks for taking the time to share your story. Its a very sad one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You said Letting him know that I still loved him, and treating him decently allowed your WH to walk all over you and take financial advantage of you.

That is sad and I can imagine the betrayal hurt very much. But I cannot see how MB caused that. If it does not cause you hurt, could you expand a little please ?

I have not counselled with Steve or Penny, I have only effected 'plan A' and exposure as studied in Harley's books and helped out MASSIVELY by some lifers on here ( Chris included!).

Plan A involved (in part) my behaving a supportive and reasonable way to my wife at a time when my instinct screamed for me to be UNreasonable but Plan A did not prevent me from protecting my own finances from further plundering.

How did MB expose you to the horrible actions of your WXH ?

Although it is true that continued to let him know that I loved him and treated him decently before I even heard of Marriage Builders, both of those are part of Plan A. The only way I could have protected my finances would have been to have immediately gone to "Plan D," which is hardly what MB recommends. Among the recommendations of MB are that if one spouse wants the divorce, you let him file. Although I am not sure that I could have filed for divorce with or without MB, the sensible thing would have been to follow the advice of all those people out there who recommend the "throw the bum out" method of dealing with infidelity.

"Plan B," on the other hand, makes no one happy but him. He is fine with having virtually no contact, even though that is not the best for the children. Counselors, school personnel, and even his lawyer have let him no repeatedly that he should discuss the children and occasionally other issues with me, but he has refused. Finally last year his lawyer made him call me on a couple of occasions, but in general he prefers to spend money on a lawyer rather than communicate with anyone. Even his lawyer thinks he is throwing his money away - at least that is what she has told me. I think Plan B is horrible for children and should be discouraged. I have not seen any evidence personally that would indicate that it causes you to lose your love. I believe that oneof the fundamental concepts of MB, that love can be "lost" is incorrect.

Nellie, you said both of those are part of Plan A. I am not sure they are.

Meeting ENs, avoiding LBs while being non judgmental and supportive aren't really the same as saying ILY and treating someone decently.

I am truly not trying to be mean, Nellie, just trying to understand.

Is there any reason you could share why you didn't protect your finances during your plan A ?

Maybe it was easier for me as I had control of our bank accounts and was the main earner.

Thanks for any more information you feel able to give.

I think avoiding LB's is a big part of treating him decently.

In retrospect, there are a number of things I should have done differently, many of which would have been huge LBs. Instead of taking our tax refund and applying it toward his credit card, as we had planned before he left, I should have applied it toward mine. I should have used our joint credit card to pay for household expenses and groceries rather than mine. If I had accepted his initial offer, he would have been paying almost 3.5 times as much child support as he does now. Unfortunately, he managed to lose his job before we went to court and consequently that made it easier for him to convince the magistrate that he couldn't afford more than a pittance. It is harder to get child support lowered than it is to have it set low to begin with. I should have tried to get him to agree to let us move to a cheaper state, and then remained a SAHM.

I should have hired a shark lawyer and tried to get all the equity in the house, especially since it was my money that provided our original downpayment anyway, and since it was his business that caused us to lose close to $100 thousand dollars.He convinced me to spend money on the business based on false information - he didn't bother to tell me that he wouldn't hesitate to desert his family as soon as he found a better financial deal.

In short, everything decision I made should have been based solely on what would result in the best financial outcome, and to h*** with whether it was an LB or even whether it was "fair."

I think avoiding LB's is a big part of treating him decently.

In retrospect, there are a number of things I should have done differently, many of which would have been huge LBs. Instead of taking our tax refund and applying it toward his credit card, as we had planned before he left, I should have applied it toward mine. I should have used our joint credit card to pay for household expenses and groceries rather than mine. If I had accepted his initial offer, he would have been paying almost 3.5 times as much child support as he does now. Unfortunately, he managed to lose his job before we went to court and consequently that made it easier for him to convince the magistrate that he couldn't afford more than a pittance. It is harder to get child support lowered than it is to have it set low to begin with. I should have tried to get him to agree to let us move to a cheaper state, and then remained a SAHM.

I should have hired a shark lawyer and tried to get all the equity in the house, especially since it was my money that provided our original downpayment anyway, and since it was his business that caused us to lose close to $100 thousand dollars.He convinced me to spend money on the business based on false information - he didn't bother to tell me that he wouldn't hesitate to desert his family as soon as he found a better financial deal.

In short, everything decision I made should have been based solely on what would result in the best financial outcome, and to h*** with whether it was an LB or even whether it was "fair."

^bump^ 124 Votes 77%(96) Yes 23%(28) No

9 more days before this poll is closed

bump

^bump^ 127 Votes 77%(98) Yes 23%(29) No

Last chance .... ^bump^ 128 Votes 77%(99) Yes 23%(29) No

Last chance.

I can't Vote yet. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm happy for all of you who did save your Marriage.

Adultery Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi all,

Here is the final result

130 voted, 78% (101) yes, 22% (29) no.

Regardless how you want to read this as ... one thing is clear that MB gives a 'lil better edge than w/o it.

Thanks all for participating and thanks for reading this.

May this simple poll bring a glimse of hope to you that are still fighting for your M. If you voted, yes, I hope you have a sucessful recovering your M and transformed it to fulfilin M. If you voted, no, I hope you are at peace with yourself and moving on w/ the opportunity that has given to us.

-rh-

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>