i have read and posted to katie, a new person seeking help. she is trying to establish NC and perhaps in the future confess although right now she doesn't see herself confessing ever. it seems like for right now, her need is support to get firmly into NC. i think the posts are helping her. i want to continue to post to her.

i have read and posted to trojan, a new person seeking help. he had a ONS and has established NC but is not thinking confessing is a good idea. i am not sure what he is looking for here, so far he has only posted to the more sarcastic responses. i don't think he is recieving any help yet but i hope, if he is sincere, that might change. that will be up to him. i'll post more to him if he responds with more depth.

then there is Jen's thread about bumping into OM and then telling rob about it. I am glad that went well, but i could not help but be impacted by Bob's reaction. you will see why in a minute.

so here is what has been happening to me. H and i are doing very well considering. i am more and more amazed each day how wonderful he is. i feel more love for him than i have ever felt in my life and i enjoy showing him with my actions. he has taught me so much about being a strong, committed person. i do struggle with fighting off thoughts of strong disappointment in myself.

having intense loving feelings towards him (when i think about how wonderful he has been) can trigger intense disappointing feelings about myself. i go from wanting to cry with joy to wanting to cry from remorse.

last night we played backgammon. it means so much to me that he has learned to enjoy playing with me. when we went to bed (after losing to him!!! and therefore owing him a backrub) i wanted to tell him how much that meant to me (even though i lost!!) and how much i loved him, next thing i know my thoughts spiral down to how terrible of a wife i have been and the tears of happiness turned into a larger number of tears of sadness.

anyone else have this happen to them. how do i fight off this pattern?

then there is another thing...

christmas at my brother's house was VERY hard on me. this was the first time i have seen him since i have worked with IC about the stuff that occured between he and i when i was in 7th grade. (minor but very impacting sexual abuse). i TOTALLY broke down and it took a long time to re-gain composure. it was very ackward and uncomfortable. not just for me, but even worse, for my kids, they were there, H was not (which was OK with me). i really didn't think i would have that kind of reaction. i have not seen IC since this has happened yet. with the holidays, it's been a while. next session is tommorow. i thought about scheduling something last week but i must admit i am so tired of this part of me really wants to STOP dealing with it. when can i just say i'm done dealing with this and live happily ever after. well i know that i am not there yet and although i never set up an appt for last week, i have also NOT cancelled the appt for tommorow (which i have been tempted to do).

on the job front, things are going ok. i'm on a slightly stressful project, time-line wise, but i am happy with how well i am learning the new project, hardware and software. of course i could find things to complain about but i am really focusing on the good stuff. i like my boss now, i am in a safer area (if any safe area really exists) and i am performing fairly well.

so things are going well but there is still a lot on my mind, and a lot of healing that still must occur for my husband, and myself, and hopefully forgiveness will occur. i think about our 20th wedding anniversary and hope that by then (1 1/2 years) he will once again be wearing his wedding ring.

OM has crept into my head some and yesterday i went to a link that had pictures of him. and it was not good. thoughts of wondering how he is and if he is wondering how i am occured. i want no thoughts like that to occur!! i want only indifference. why should i care if he wishes me well? i don't even want to waste energy on feeling anger towards him. why do i want to hang on to remembering the feeling of being cared for that i felt at times. IT WAS FAKE. i 100% know this and truth be told i knew it even then, in my head. but somehow the feelings of it being real still occured. and those feelings were pleasant. i don't want ANYTHING pleasant to remain!!!!! I want 100% indifference.

(i do have anger about the OM that was our "friend" although i don't think about that ever, at this point i just know i will always think VERY poorly of that person).

but the bottomline is, he got into my head some, i looked at his picture and i felt like i had to tell H about it ASAP. i have promised to protect my H, emotionally, physically. i finally get that. and there is no way i am going to EVER fail!!! so i shared with him this morning. and it was not fun for him to hear.

he asked about my intent. my intent was to protect him by always being 100% honest. i have lost too much by not being honest. i have hurt him too much by not being honest. i think it went fairly well, he was very offended that i would even have any thoughts at all, i apologized. he told me OM could care less about me, he was just using me. i agreed. he said we are back to where we were before. i dis-agreed. before i would never have told him this. we are no where like we once were. i am now protecting him. yes it would be better if i had no thoughts occur, but i protected him by telling him about it. it was the right thing to do. i know this!!

but i still feel bad that i hurt him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ok, i think that about covers it... is anyone really still reading???

FL,

Yes, I'm still reading. I was just about to get off and saw your new thread! Anyway, I wanted to tell you that something similar happens to me from time to time, the latest being aroudn New Year's. I got to thinking about how wonderful RH has been to me through all of this, and I started to cry, I mean really broke down. I told him it was because the more good I see in him, the uglier I feel.
I am still where you are regarding OM....wonder how he is, alternating between not giving a sh#@ , hating him, not hating him, blaming him, not blaming him. ....and I HATE it. I run the risk of seeing him "in passing" every stinking single day. It's a lot harder to get to that point of indifference in that situation. I certainly DO NOT want to start anything with him or even talk to him. If someone tells me he was just "using" me and it was all "fake", that doesn't make me feel any better, and I think something's wrong with me that it doesn't.
Most of the time I am able to focus on what I have right here, right now. Just once in a while.....AAARRRGHHHHH!

FL,
Don't let your head spin. These other situations although similar to YOU... are NOT your situations.

In this case... 2+2..does NOT equal 4.

Now..on to better things.

I'm SO sorry that you're having these...let's call them "break throughs"...because that's really what they are. You've done such hard work, and come so far...you're really OWNING what happened now. This is a sign of healing. Think back...didn't you live in a time that you just wanted to forget the whole thing happened ?

Now you are moving into a new phase...you know you can't forget, you have to deal with that elephant...but now you're better equipped !!

You can NOT control your thoughts... I commend you for trying ! If you find THAT secret pill...you gotta share !!! You CAN control your actions... and you ARE doing that.

Give yourself some time, some patience, and some healing ....and your head will spin less and less.

FL, and NOW,

Has it occured to you two that perhaps when you feel unworthy of your H's, that this is connected to you thinking of the OM? I sense that there is a connection and I sense that you two have not made the connection.

Could it be that you two are subconsciously thinking: "I am not worthy of my H, but a know a man who is low enough to be on my level."

I would like to strongly urge you both to talk to your H's when you feel like this. FL said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">having intense loving feelings towards him (when i think about how wonderful he has been) can trigger intense disappointing feelings about myself. i go from wanting to cry with joy to wanting to cry from remorse.

last night we played backgammon. it means so much to me that he has learned to enjoy playing with me. when we went to bed (after losing to him!!! and therefore owing him a backrub) i wanted to tell him how much that meant to me (even though i lost!!) and how much i loved him, next thing i know my thoughts spiral down to how terrible of a wife i have been and the tears of happiness turned into a larger number of tears of sadness. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to tell him when you have your feelings of intense love for him. I am serious he needs to know and you need to verbalize it.

Just another thought for you both. Has it occured to you that what you have been is not nearly as important as what you are not and who/what you will be in the future? Your H's think that way. They are betting that way. They are betting their life and happiness on the fact that you two are not and will not be "terrible" wives to them.

So if they are willing to stake so much on this, then you need to realize that both of you can and do bring them happiness. That your smiles warm their hearts, that your presence graces their lives. Because...all of the above is true or they would NOT be their.

Consider the issue of trust, it is not about trusting the past, it is about trusting in the future. What do they want to trust??? That you will be the wives and people they KNOW you are now and can be in the future.

So please stop and think about this carefully. The people most able to assess your contributions to them are those closest to you, and all have assessed that you two are worthy of their love and effort.

Time for a perspective change ladies. You two are finer people and women that you seem to realize.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you very much for those thoughts/observations. I had not made any connection to OM when I feel this way. Let me think about that some more! Interesting. Although I was just telling someone else why I thought her FWH was going to a friend's frequently, one who enabled his A. Ok, I DO see what you're saying!

BTW, I have told my husband how I was feeling, that I deeply appreciate his "love" towards me, the Love that is a verb and not a feeling....and just today he "overheard" me on another thread, saying that very thing!

Thanks again for the beautiful post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL,

I do understand where you are coming from. As much as I want to help, some days I cannot answer another post as a FWS. Some days it is easier for me to answer as a BS or not answer at all. My H, like yours is being so loving now. I too have intense feelings of love toward him lately. I called him the other morning and told him what a good job of he is doing of making me feel loved. He really seemed to appreciate that. FL, have you forgiven yourself yet? I have finally accepted God's forgiveness and that is helping me along the road to forgiving myself. I am showing my H through my actions that I am worthy of his love and trust. I try so hard to be patient. Some days I just want to scream, so I come here instead. Helps alot to do that.

Not sure if this is helpfull to you. I have occasional thoughts about FOM too, but mostly regretful thoughts of how much damage and hurt I caused my H. FOM was never the type of man I would have chose as a spouse so I puzzle over the attractions sometimes. I heard his name said at work yesterday (we used to work together)and I was suprised at how guilty I felt just hearing his name.

Anyway, FL. I am here and listening.

Hey FL, FF, & NOW,

Your H's are all wonderful, special guys... They've all made the hard decision and they've decided to fight for YOU and for your M. I don't think that they would be willing to fight so hard for you or for the M if they didn't see the potential that each of you have.

Society and basic instincts will tell them to run away, but they have all chosen to stand by you because they know that your past actions don't define who you are right now and who you are learning and working to be...

There are going to be days where your H's don't seem so "wonderful".... days where you'll start drifting off and wondering why you've even bothered with trying to rebuild your M.

Don't listen to those feelings... focus on the ACTIONs of your H have already displayed. They've each made the commitment to rebuild the M with you because they BELIEVE in you. They haven't run away. They've had the courage to stand up and fight for their M.

So when those "bad" days/times pop up, or when you thoughts start drifting off towards the OM... refocus your thoughts on your H's and know that THEY BELIEVE in you and need your reassurance that you are just as commited to the M as they are...

I'd be willing to bet that none of your H's are mind readers.... so like JL said, verbalize your love for your H... We BH's need lots of reassurance that we've made the "right choice"...

Each time my W tells me that she loves me, I know that I made the right choice...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Bless you, RIF. Your wife must adore you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

thanks everyone. i don't have too much post right now. but i wanted to thank you all for posting. i have told H how much i love and appreciate him. i hope he hears that msg. i know he needs lots of re-assurance. i also know sometimes i fall short <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i know there is more to respond to but i don't want to stay online. i must admit i am very tired!!!! i hate it when i cry to much in a day!!! son and i did a little jogging because the weather here in IL decided to pretend it was spring. that was fun, but also tiring too. i certainly should sleep well tonight.

thanks again

FL-T2M, I am very sorry if my responses to Jen caused you unhappiness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Such is never my intention. I fear that my PORH causes me to be more forthright than is healthy sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I spoke only as I felt - I would be GUTTED If my Squiddy wanted OM to be alright after , say ,a year in recovery.

I can't invest all I have to invest if she uses care cycles on that sh1tbag. Unreasonable? Probably but thats how I feel right now.

Only you know what is appropriate in your sitch.

Sorry again.

{{{{fl-T2m}}}}

Hey FL - How are you doing this morning?

please don't apologize. actually, your post has been EXTREMELY helpful in openning my eyes in yet another way. this is always a very good thing.

Hi RIF,

I did not see your post until just now. I came back to respond to bob again, so i will do that first...


(this is an expanded post from idiotville!!)

bob, please do NOT apologize for your posting!!! it has actually had a big benefit for me. just like you say reading the posts of FWSs help you. reading posts of BHs really help me. YOU are not the cause of anyone else's pain here. you did not go off and try to purposely say hurtful things to be mean. you were showing your perspective and that is why it is so helpful.

i certainly will not sit here and tell you there was NO pleasure of any type ever during all of this. thre was emotional and physical pleasure at times, i think for me the benefit i really wanted was on the emotional end. however, i had to work hard to ignore the "ugly" facts in order to get the pleasure and it became more and more impossible as time went on and events continued to unfold.

for me, as i got to hating myself more and more for what i was doing (mostly because my H was holding on so tight and really showing me what his love was and is all about) and yet feeling so very trapped in the addictivness part of it, i started to let OM treat me worse and worse. the best way i can describe it is to say i encouraged him to treat me as an object. because that is all i felt like at that point.

people do do things to cause pain to themselves. when emotional pain gets too intense in my head, i will dig my nails into my skin or scratch my arm till it bleeds. (actually i USED to do those things, not anymore!!!)

finally, i wanted to elaborate the "openning of my eyes" comment. i really did not appreciate just how gut wrenching the idea of me even allowing myself the luxury of even thinking about the OM in any way shape or form is so hurtful not to mention looking at his picture.

my H really wanted an answer as to why i would still have a bookmark to any web page that was associated with OM on my work computer. especially after having him find the old bookmark on my computer at home and having to see how much that hurt and offended him. i have been reflecting on this alot. just what did i gain and what might i be subconcisouly hanging on to.

the strongest benefit i got was a feeling of being safe. at that point in my time i was such a mess. i didn't want to go back to feeling suicidal, i needed a safe haven and that is what OM gave me. and he understood that is what i needed. he would let me cry till i ran out of tears and he would literally say to me that i was safe with him. that it was just he and i and i was safe, that i could relax for a time. that stmt was huge. "karen, you are safe here, it's just you and me here now". it's not like we talked, i didn't vent about my concerns, i didn't need nor want to talk, i needed to be allowed to cry and then i needed to be allowed to be ok for a time and relax.

so what triggered me to go to that website and look at his picture? what is causing thoughts of him to be in my mind right now? and how do i address and understand my needs so i can fullfill them in a healthy way.

1. the holidays are over, will my H's kid gloves (because he really has been extremely kind to me) come off? will he finally now tell me i'm a b*tch and a basketcase and completely unsalvagable? that he wants nothing more to do with me?

2. it is very clear to me that i cannot NOT talk to my brother about all this stuff. i'm going to have to deal with it directly. will my relationships with my siblings get blown into a million pieces now? for that matter did i really ever have a true relationship with any of them? i have always in my heart ADORED my siblings, warts and all. they are my siblings and i love them. i love them, not for any reason other than i have choosen to love them for better or for worse. i would die for any one of them. that decision has been a huge defining thing in me. what happens if that gets blown to pieces.

will there be any safty in my life?

of course i do know the answer now. the saftey is found in Jesus and God. i will be ok no matter what. that truth has always been there, i just could not claim it.

and although typing that last stmt cleared up the tears that have been streaming down my face as i have been typing all the rest, i can't deny i feel scared anyway.

well this turned out to be much much longer than anticipated. i've been to IC today... can you tell??

RIF, did i answer your question now too??? thanks for asking about my by the way.

FL, no matter what is down the road for you, you are a wonderfully and beautifully made soul and God loves you unconditionally. Try to see yourself through the eyes of our Lord. Did you read what I wrote to you a few pages back in Iville? Of course now I can't quote it but basically said that you are perfect in the eyes of God.

{{FL}}

thanks faithful, no i did not see it, nor can i go to find it now. time to dash and pick up my cute boy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> thanks.

^ bump