Life can be so cruel, can't it? Been on this coaster since early 11/04, so I know I am still wet behind the ears. This is the hardest, most painful ordeal of my life - and I have had more than my fair share of CRAP.
WH (37) works with OW (19), has been almost a month since their last out of work physical contact, but they still see each other at work and continue to cell and IM. He swears his loss of "in love" feelings and his feelings towards her have nothing to do with one another. Even though he started out telling me how he felt about me, then a week later he was in this new "relationship" with her. Typical stuff, "it just happened", "I didn't plan this". Blah, Blah, Blah.
Almost since the begining he's been talking about leaving to see if it enlightens how he feels about me (we have 5 kids between us - 13B, 10G, 9B, 5B, 3B), but he can't "settle" in life and stay for the just the kids. It's not been anything I wanted him to follow through with, and he clearly knows it.
However, when I get emotional or strike a nerve with him, he pulls it out like emotional blackmail. Just wondering if I should just give him a date and tell him to go? I want to say that he'll be back when he realizes how great he has it, but there's definately the fear of him not returning. (he's told me on 3 different occasions, that he knows it's just lust, it's not going to last, and even that it began to "fizzle")
He still sings my priases and says I am near perfect. He loves and cares for me deeply, but those special "in love" feelings have been gone for years - even though I just learned about that fact) I would have " a lot to offer a normal guy". Well, jacka**, you were a normal guy until you let the wrong head start thinking!!!!

Any pearls of wisdom??? Is it possible he just wants a "break" from marriage for casual sex, or has he developed a pattern that destined to be repeated again and again??

Check these questions out:

1. Do his actions and words match?

2. Do your actions and words match?

Until both of you match your actions and words, this rollercoaster will continue to ride.

So what t/d? Take the time to put your mind and heart in sync. It appears your WS is stringing you along. He is still very much in the A with the OW regardless of what he is saying. He is babbling from the WS script almost to the letter. Scary isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So, if you feel you have done a good plan A, then take a look at plan B. Why? Because right now he is saying he wants his cake and to eat it to.....he is sitting on the fence...... The point is are you gonna keep giving him cake to eat and are you going to keep meeting his ENs so that he can stay on that fence? All this to the detriment of yourself and your family?

If not, consider plan B options. Remember plan B is NOT about him..... it is about removing his pain and maybe himself from being inflicted on your family. It is NOT to fix him. It is to remove you meeting his ENs. Whether this brings him to his senses is irrelevent right now..... Plan B is about how you will remove yourself from that triangle and all that babble.

Also you need to secure your finances. Expect that to take a big his or be held hostage while the WS scrambles to get you to continue to enable the A.

So the OW is only 6 years older than your oldest? eeewwwuuuu...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

L.

First let me say that it sounds as though you have a good foundation for saving your M and this place is a great resource for doing so.

Your H is what we fondly refer to around here as cake eating. Many a WS does this.

To answer some of your questions;
Yes it is important to set limits, including time limits, however it is also important not to give ultimatums to your WS. The limits are for you. Are you familiar with plan A and the other basic concepts? If not read up on those on the main portion of this site they are essential tools in your fight to save your M.

No it does not have to be a pattern with your H. Read affair proofing your M. Once again it can also be found on the main portion of this site.

Lastly, we as married people do not get "breaks" from M. That is NOT part of the program and is unacceptable behavior within the bounderies of M.

Best of luck to you and always remember that IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

MommyC,

Your boy sounds like a spoiled little brat that thinks he has the world on a string!!

What would happen if he came home AND YOU WERE GONE!!??? You leave a note saying that the pressure of his A and his actions have forced you to go off by yourself to meditate. And oh by the way you need to go to the grocery store to buy food for the FIVE(!) kids...and then fix them their dinner. I will try to contact you within the week.

Would exposing help stop the contact? Does the OW have a husband (19 probably not) or parents she is living with. Expose to the boss and get her fired?

One last thought..He is 37 and she is 19. One of them is calling the shots and directing the A and I would not think it would be the younger of the two.

Stay strong and take care of YOURSELF.

k

One very important point I left out... It is impairative that you make it clear that having OW in your M is unacceptable. Just try to avoid LBing and ultimatums when you do so.

Thank you all for promptly replying to my dilema. I will try to answer questions in turn.

Orchid:
His actions do not always match his words. He tells me he's dealing with it and he has feelings for her, but he knows it's wrong and should end. However, last night he had a 2 hour cell call with her. Monday night I hit an emotional pitfall and could not stop crying, he slept in the bed with me and held me. He too was crying, saying that it kills him to see the pain and hurt he's putting me through. Talk about mixed signals.
I feel pretty confident that so far my words and actions match, however, plan B will be soooo hard.
Securing the finances is a bigger issue. His mother lives with us and takes care of our 2 youngest boys, we have every imaginable combination of our names on any given debt. He also makes way more than I do, and can not afford our house without him.
Want to hear something worse about the OW? Before she started work for my H, she was our nanny!!! My boys love her to death and ask for her constantly. I think when they started to work together everyday that something started then. Makes me sick!!!

Krusht:
Yes, I think he is spoiled now....two of us giving him what he wants and needs. Plus, he started working out at the gym months ago, with bigger results now showing, so I always hear him saying crap like "all the ladies like that". He's flexes in the mirror all the time, and has grown quite the big head!
I can't and won't leave my boys. Just because Daddy lost his senses doesn't mean that Mommy will follow suit. Besides, since his mother lives with us, she'd be stuck with the brunt of it. He's the one that should go!
I want to desperately to expose her, and yes she does live with her parents. I know they all say this, but he told me if I start "making trouble" then any hopes of reconciliation are out the window. That scares me, right or wrong, if he makes a threat it is not idle.
He is her boss. The company is small, has no official policy. The owner is aware, and all he'll do it transfer her under someone else's leadership. They will still see each other daily, it's just a business technicality.
I have no idea who is really calling the shots in their A. I know she rings his cell constantly, and always has "away" posts on AOL that are directed at him. He's had weekends with me where he doesn't answer it at all, and when he does he tells me 15 messages or whatever. Then the work week rolls around again and it's back to him being a full participant.

Like I said, I am just so confused. I truly think he needs to get out and see how great life isn't without his wife, mother, and kids.

BTW - I already have HN/HN, people have told me I bought the wrong book first (although at first it was "I love you but I'm not in love with you"), I need to get HTSA.

Thanks, again!!

Oops! Forgot to include Mr.E, I am sooo sorry!!

I think we do have a great foundation for saving our M, just wish he saw that already.
I've set limits, don't allow cell calls in the house from OW. I make him take it on the road and out of my face. I never give him ultimatums, even before this I never tell him what to do. It's just not right. I let him know that I'm hurt and confused, he clearly see that through the fog.
I hope you're right that it's not a pattern. We've been friends for 15+ years, together for 9, and married the last 5. I would pray this is a one time occurance.
It just seems to me that he wants excitement, maybe our marriage got stale. I want so desparately to fix it, but until he wants that I can't make him see or feel anything.

Thanks for your input!!

MomC,

I can tell you the end result of this mess. The 19 year old OW will file sexual harrasment charges against the company and retire financially secure at the tender age of 21.

Your H is her boss and the owner of the company knows about it?!?!?! This is a disaster waiting to happen!! The owner of the company had better wake up and smell reality.

This is text book sexual harrasment fodder that will blow up in everyone's faces when things go sour between your H and the tart.

I want to desperately to expose her, and yes she does live with her parents. I know they all say this, but he told me if I start "making trouble" then any hopes of reconciliation are out the window. That scares me, right or wrong, if he makes a threat it is not idle.

So this scares you....sooo....what do you do??? Sounds like nothing! I think you need to do SOMETHING!

k

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MommyCBaby:
I want to desperately to expose her, and yes she does live with her parents. I know they all say this, but he told me if I start "making trouble" then any hopes of reconciliation are out the window. That scares me, right or wrong, if he makes a threat it is not idle.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you had a 19 year old daughter living at home, having an affair with a married man, would you appreciate being told about it?

Being "scared" is no excuse for avoiding the morally correct action.

Being "scared" to expose evil gives evil more power.

Pep

MomC,

I've set limits, don't allow cell calls in the house from OW. I make him take it on the road and out of my face. I never give him ultimatums, even before this I never tell him what to do. It's just not right.

LIMITS!!?? What kind of limit is that?

Maybe the time is coming soon when you will be giving him the ultimatum. Most cake eating fence sitters won't get off the fence untill forced. Why should they??

I let him know that I'm hurt and confused, he clearly see that through the fog.

Now YOU are speaking foggily. HE CANNOT SEE ANYTHING CLEARLY IN THE FOG.

While you are crying in bed and he is holding you, who is he thinking of??? Ask him.

when he does he tells me 15 messages or whatever.

So is he bragging to you? Does he shake his head and say.."that poor little thing, man does she have it BAAAAD for me! heh heh heh."

I think you have to start standing up for yourself. He is directing the drama here. And it sounds like he is enjoying it.

k

Just when I think I am dealing with things, you're all here to make me see things better. Thank you.
I actually should know all this stuff, my head and my heart aren't exactly on speaking terms these days.

After many talks with the mother-in-law and sister-in-law (each by the way survived the same mess), I am resolved to make his choice for him. Tonight I plan on telling him he has 1 week to pack and be gone. There will be minimal, if any, contact between us. His mother can be the go-between.

I'll post with updates. It's gonna be a rough road.

MCB, let me add two things here, if I may.

I know you have HNHN from your earlier thread. If not already, get SAA. I also recommend getting a copy of Torn Asunder. You need to become an expert on infidelity. It's a rotten job, but someone has to do it - if you are to save your M. If you cannot afford them, start with the articles on the main MB site. Shoot, I'll buy copies from Amazon used books and send them to you. That's how important I think this homework is.

Second, let me tell you a real life story about exposure. I'll keep it short. My first D-Day was six years ago. I found a ton of emails between W and OMM going back four years. W said the same foggy things you are hearing, including many that were (still are) really hurtful. After about three months of this misery I said I was going to talk to OMM. W had a fit, to put it mildly. Just like your H, she said if I did that it would end all hope of reconciliation and she would D me immediately.

She sounded very serious. So I caved. We continued through almost a year of MC/IC. She maintained throughout that it was just an inappropriate friendship, at most a tenuous EA. She swore through real tears it was over and she would never talk to him again.

Guess what? It never ended. She knew what fear-buttons to push on me. She played me (and MC) like a flute. The A went on and on and on for another six years because she maintained total control of the situation.

After D-Day 2 I did go see OMM without telling her. I asked him to choose. He cut and run. He said W never told him I knew six years ago. He said if he had known I knew back then he would have ended it immediately. She was controlling him also. (He was angry and said some pretty mean and provocative things about my W. But at the time I was hurting so bad I just let them bounce off me. I was numb through and through. Now I put it down to his anger at being played when he thought he was doing all the playing.)

The morals of this story are:

Expose, Expose, Expose. If I had exposed after D-Day 1 there would not have been a D-Day 2. One way or another, D or not, that would have been the end of it.

It does not matter what WS or OP say while in the fog. Ignore it. Follow your flight plan; you are flying on instruments at night in a storm. No matter what happens to your M, you will be better for it in the long run. It is the only way you, personally, will be able to land safely.

Where do you get your flight plan? From the texts listed above and from the good people here.
T

PS: Sexual harassment should be a big worry for your WH. OMM threatened it after his W found out. Even though the grounds were much less obvious than in your case, it would have ruined W's career. Strict NC is keeping his threatened retaliation at bay.

Thos,

Thanks so much. I already plan on getting SAA, I bought the other before the real truth was revealed.

My every instinct is to call her mother, after all she knows me because the little tart was our nanny for a year!! I know everyone can be convincing, but my WH never gives idle threats. I really fear that making that call will be the one thing that ruins any hopes of saving our M. WH is very prideful, right or wrong, when he makes a decision he sticks with it.

I've been so weak as to approach others to make the call for me. Obviously, no takers.

Instead of buying my research, wanna make a call? LOL

Thanks for the input.

Thos,

One more thing. Yes, owner of company knows and according to WH (I know, why should I beleive him), doesn't think there's grounds for sexual harassment case. Besides, and get this, owner had a fog of his own and is almost done "paying off" a former employee.

sigh

Sexual harassment can go both ways. OW can claim it against WH if she gets her nose out of joint. Or, WH and you can claim it against her (and include management of the company in a “either knew or should have know” suit). In fact, you can claim it on your own without WH participation. Even if you don’t win anything, the damage to the company is usually enough to get OW transferred or let go as part of damage control.

I am amazed that the owner would be so nonchalant after going through it himself already. I am leaning the same way you are. WH is not telling the truth about it. Owner of the company does not know anything, IMO.

I would make the call for you. But, it will be better by far for you to do it. Believe it or not, your WH will actually respect you for it in the long run. I mean I, too. That you stood up to him, for him, and for your M, is a big plus once the fog clears.

T

It's just so hard. Until this started in November, I thought we had a great marriage. I have never had to "go against his wishes" before. It's a very hard obsticle to overcome.

I am weak.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I am weak.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your husband is weak also.

This mutual weakness will collapse your marriage unless one of you is willing to change.

Pep