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quote:
Originally posted by HelenWheels:
Kasey, you said...
I dared believe that because she seems to say the things that perhaps she understood what she was saying... [Teary]

Can you dare to believe that you are called to plant seeds and that it's God that causes the growth? That only God can open her understanding, not you or anyone else for that matter?

Can you dare to believe that God is a God of Restoration? In His time, not mine or yours?

Can you find some confidence in these things?

well, I can't make a livlihood doing it. but perhaps I can pacify myself for another 40 years thinking stuff like this.

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....perhaps I can pacify myself for another 40 years...(end quote)

Maybe I am just pacifying myself by thinking along the lines of my last post. It's possible. Oh well. But I find it a much more peaceful and less dangerous place for me to be in my own recovery and faith-walk. Just trying to help.

I guess the true test of all this will be when my mom dies, which isn't too far off, I think. [Teary]

Then I'm thinking my hope will die with her, but that's my problem. I'll not give up on her or God til then. And that's my choice. [Teary]

Yeah, the truth bites sometimes.

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helen, I'm sorry. I am glad you have hope. Just because mine is so tenuous don't abandon yours.

my wife tells me that she fears that I will get my wish. That after my parents die then they will be out of my life and then my addiction can have it's full way with me. I can finally be fully removed from all family. including her she says and including our son.

I don't know. While she may have a premonition she also may be off the mark. While i don't see good things with my own glasses I don't want to accept the doom of other's predictions. While i don't know what to hang my hope on, I want to hold hope for something better.

I guess I'd better get to that meeting now....

thankyou again for sharing recovery and keeping it real.

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ok I can't believe I actually watched Dr. Phil today but I did, it just worked out that way after lunch he was on and the subject of spousal abuse was on...

this led me to after the show check out his website and I found this interesting (to me) idea on a message board emotional blackmail

I'm sure I grew up with emotional blackmail. I just wish I had the feeling that it wasn't still an option for members of my family. Sadly I don't feel like it's safe to share my feelings with family. They don't honor vunerabily they use it. Some especially more than others but it's a factor. It's uncomfortable for me to even see this because as one of my sponsors was so fond of saying, perhaps he was emotionally blackmailing alot too....'if you spot it you got it'

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Hi Kasey,

What does 'recover' mean, in this case? Seriously.

Do you mean you'll never be sad about it? That it will have never affected you, or will never affect you in the future? Do you think it will completely solve your other issues? If they cried and apologized tomorrow, how would your life change?

Like I said earlier, the most serious offenders in my FOO are dead. Some things cant be 'resolved'. IMHO, I think you are putting too much weight on this. It wont be the magic cure you're looking for.

You often write of God and faith in your recovery. I think this (FOO focus) has become an obsession, that is taking you away from God. And your W. Could you be distracting yourself? We cant 'solve' every one of our issues. You have to live the best life you can. Today. Tomorrow. What answer could you find that would give you peace? - Dru

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Could it be that not accepting them you actually don't accept yourself (the way you see (know!) yourself), and that not liking them you run from knowing how little you like yourself? Or they remind you of what you'd like to be but you are not?
Is focus on your family 'old good comfort', as an excuse not to deal with other issues, for this one is 'so big' that you have no energy left for other (more) important things?

Yes, all of us have any sample of human beings in our families... but it's... childlish? to blame them for our own feelings of incompetency, sadness, 'inadequacy'...

This is first thread/posts of yours I've read... it's jmo.. would like if way off...

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Kasey,

I hope you will take the time to digest what I say to you and not just dismiss it of deflate it. That being said, please take the time, read what I write, and then PONDER IT A BIT.

First, as you know, I have known you and your lovely W for quite a while now. I know of some of your issues and I know of some of her issues, and in THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE I would like to suggest that Some of the deep, darkness of this issue--Some of the severity of how it has plunged you into pain and sorrow--Some of it may be due to the depression state that you're in. That is not to diminish or minimize your agony--just to understand Some of it.

Second, having been a child who had a childhood much like yours, I have a unique ability to not only understand, but also EMPATHIZE with what you're feeling and how you're feeling. Kasey, it is a gut-wrenching, life-changing moment when, as an adult, you realize that your own parents are incapable of loving you in a healthy way because they themselves are unhealthy. It strikes to the very core of your being...WHY don't my own parents love me??

It was VERY painful to accept that my mom loved me to the extent of her capability but in her untreated, unaddressed mental illness, she was not capable of mature, intimate, parental love involving sympathy, empathy or responsibility. The best she could do was provide food and shelter for me. The worst was raging, beating, abusing and torture as she struggled with her own inner demons (for that is surely what they are). As an adult survivor and PARENT now, it hurts me to think that it was more valuable to my mom to protect herself from being emotionally hurt than it was to protect me, her child, from being physically hurt. It goes against my "Mommy Creedo".

Likewise it was VERY painful to accept that my dad loved me to the extent of his capability but in his untreated, unaddressed alcoholism and "I don't know what", he was not capable of mature, intimate, parental love involving sympathy, empathy or responsibility. The best he could do was provide food and shelter for me. The worst was sexual abuse, abandonment, and yet another kind of torture as he struggled with his own inner demons (for that is surely what they are). As an adult survivor and PARENT now, it hurts me to think that it was more valuable to my dad to protect himself from having to face his alcoholism than it was to protect me, his child, from being physically hurt. It goes against my "Parent Creedo".

Kasey, I understand the concept of your faith that family is SOOOOOoooo important and that families and family members can be sealed together forever. I also understand that this is one of the highest attainments for which a human family can strive as a spritual unit. HOWEVER (and that is one darn, big HOWEVER)...HOWEVER, I believe this is a goal toward which God would have us strive and to which sometimes we, in our human fraility, do not meet the mark. Surely God would never intend for a parent to treat their child with such abuse, pain and torture as I was subjected to...surely not. His goal is for a parent to be emotionally and spiritually mature, and to act in that maturity to bring up a child in love and His law. This is not a goal which my parents hit. Period. I'm not being judgemental, just factual--they did not attain that goal.

Thus, I believe it would be cruelty to hold my feet to the fire because I did not want to be sealed forever to my abusive parents. Yes, because of what happened to me, I have become the wonderful, empathetic, gentle, lovely woman that I am today...and I am thankful for that. It has formed me and served me. Furthermore, I firmly believe in the verse that says, "In EVERYTHING give thanks, for this is the will of God..." and it does not say, "If it's good, give thanks, but if it's hard or hurts, you don't have to." It says IN EVERYTHING!!!! So I believe that God does HONOR our obedience when we thank him for our parents' imperfections and humanness.

But just as the believing spouse is released when the non-believeing spouse wants to go, chooses to go, and acts upon a divorce--so too, I believe God recognizes our humanness, our fraility, and our imperfection and allows us a release. Shoot, one of my favorite verses is "Guard your heart for it is a wellsring of life...", and that's because it is a reminder to me that MY HEART IS VALUABLE TO GOD. God finds no pleasure in my heart constantly and continuously being hurt! So He commands me to GUARD IT--protect it--keep watch.

Kasey, as children, it is our duty to HONOR our parents. Note that it does not say "love"...it says "HONOR":

--------------------------------------------------
Esteem due or paid to worth; high estimation; respect; consideration; reverence; veneration; manifestation of respect or reverence.
--------------------------------------------------
That which rightfully attracts esteem, respect, or consideration; self-respect; dignity; courage; fidelity; especially, excellence of character; high moral worth; virtue; nobleness; specif., in men, integrity; uprightness; trustworthness; in women, purity; chastity.
--------------------------------------------------
That to which esteem or consideration is paid; distinguished position; high rank.
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Fame; reputation; credit.
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To regard or treat with honor, esteem, or respect; to revere; to treat with deference and submission; when used of the Supreme Being, to reverence; to adore; to worship.
--------------------------------------------------
To dignify; to raise to distinction or notice; to bestow honor upon; to elevate in rank or station; to ennoble; to exalt; to glorify; hence, to do something to honor; to treat in a complimentary manner or with civility.


Look at these definitions a minute. They talk about stuff like offering esteem or respect to someone who behaves (manifests) respect. They talk about the kinds of characteristics and qualities that are considered honorable (respect, courage, morality, virtue, trustworthiness, purity). They talk about someone being honored for their high position. They talk about giving reverence to the Divine. And they talk about elevating or raising someone to a level of honor.

As a son, Kasey, this is your duty...to HONOR. But nowhere does it say that you have to keep openning yourself to repeated hurt and betrayal by your parents, nor does it say that you "have to" be all smooshy, lovey. In fact, there are quite clear instructions to PROTECT yourself from repeatedly being harmed! Our duty is to respect that our parents did the best that they could in their untreated states. Our duty is to see whatever qualities and virtues of honorability they do have. Our duty is to recognize they honor they deserve just for bringing us into this world and keeping us alive. Our duty is to elevate them and raise them by our example of healthy, spiritual, godly lives.

In the end, here is the conclusion I reached. I have accepted the past, because I can not change it. I have accepted my parents' inability/unwillingness to admit or address their illnesses, because I can not change them. I CAN however change the way that I open myself to their harmfulness to me, and THERE...there is where I have found courage to shield myself from their harm and wisely place an extremely firm, protective boundary. My mom must go to IC for a year, admit/make amends for the abuse, and be in treatment and medicated before I will speak to her--otherwise her inability to control her illness is too toxic and harmful for me. My dad likewise must go to AA for a year, admit/make amends for his alcoholic behaviors, and be in true recovery (not just dry drunk) before I will speak to him--otherwise the lure of his illness is too strong and too harmful to me.

Would I personally be "sealed" to my parents for eternity? Sadly, no. Would I be "sealed" to my children? OH YES!! Because whilst I am not perfect and they are not perfect, they cycle is ending with me, and they really are my soul family for eternity. Yep.

Ponder, my friend. I look forward to your reply.


CJ

[ January 18, 2005, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]

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my goodness I'm learning alot these days...

I've got a ways to go to dig myself out of this depression I guess I'm in here.

before I respond to the recent replies to me here which I think deserves my full attention individually. I want to repost my early morning share on my recovery fellowship board. just to keep current.

*************************************************

I dremt about my father last night and it was disquieting. he was trying to do yardwork but was too eccentric and too uncoordinated to do more than get himself in trouble and I was going from one mess to another trying to keep him from hurting himself. the yard was getting destroyed as he went from task to task.

then the second worst thing I dislike most of all is waking up to an empty bed. my wife has cronic insomnia and always gets up at about 4 am. I get to wake to an empty bed all the time...true to form she was gone as usual.

it seems like all the values I want all the joys I desire are pushed away from my be circumastances beyond my control and I am left always in the most uncomforted and uncomfortable positions.

we went and visited an elderly couple last night, the stories they told were of so many people's lives all of whom were tragic. it painted such a horrible picture of growing old to me I can't stand it. I need hope that happiness is possible. Their fiftieth anniversary was so unromantic. they were clearly two ships that pass in the night and that's what I'm afraid my marriage is becoming, not that we don't love each other but because life just pulls us apart like this.

what will we be like in another 30 years? God have mercy.
***********************************************

i started sharing my dreams because sometimes people can help me learn from them things I might not otherwise.

***********************************************

i'm still not really awake and it's still very early for me 5:35. I've got to go thru my morning hot tub ritual and soak the kinks out of my back. I'll try to get back as soon as i can.

until i'm back to digest these replies let me say thankyou to everyone especially to CJ. I've very open to your share and humbled by it too. The task before me is ominous to me but it is what it is. How would I face it if I did not have the empathetic support of a few kind others? It would crush me.

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quote:
Originally posted by Drucilla:

What does 'recover' mean, in this case? Seriously.

it's taken me two days of sitting with this question to begin to get a current status handle on it.

I think at least part of what means is to regain my personhood and autonomy. I've found myself in meetings lately listening to others and listening to my higher power teach me thru other people and what I've come to believe so far is that when I grew up I was completely subservient to my father's reality which was subject to change without notice but whatever that reality is or was I had to figure it out and submit to it immediately or face capital punishment. I was terrorized by his whims and lived in constant fear of the lash. Essentially I sacraficed my autonomy to be subservient to whatever he wanted, it was the only way to survive in that home. Now if I'm going to recover I have to get over the trauma I feel whenever I have to choose something for myself without him or some phantom of someone similar commanding me to do thus and such now. it's the stress I feel when I'm given a preferential choice about two or more things I would like (or dislike). When the choice is all up to me. when I don't have that dominating controlling person telling me what to do and when to do it and how to do it and why I should do it and how I should feel about everything all the time...well when all that's gone I find it hard to make my own choices. I find it hard to pick what to eat, what goals to prusue, what to consider highest priority, when to take action and when to not worry about it, all this as it relates to choosing my own path in life. That's what I struggle with. And including what it's ok for me to want or not want, do or not do. say or not say, think or not think, feel or not feel. hope or not hope. etc.

quote:
Do you mean you'll never be sad about it?
no
quote:
That it will have never affected you, or will never affect you in the future?
get serious
quote:
Do you think it will completely solve your other issues?
progress not perfection, any positive improvement will help other issues too. it's a system, improve any part of it and the whole benefits.

quote:
If they cried and apologized tomorrow, how would your life change?
It likely wouldn't change much because crying and apologizing isn't making amends and I still wouldn't have the option of feeling emotionally safe being emotionally honest with two people I've never felt safe being completely emotionally honest with my whole life. Not until they are changed people and can actually make amends would anything change for me really I don't think.

quote:
Like I said earlier, the most serious offenders in my FOO are dead. Some things cant be 'resolved'. IMHO, I think you are putting too much weight on this. It wont be the magic cure you're looking for.
you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not looking for magic cures. that's a pretty condescending dj on your part if you ask me. your resolutions may or may not take a different form whereas your family is passed away. but be that as it may I believe living in resignation is not good enough for me. it won't bring me peace to simply resign myself to 'the way things are' and give up. I don't think that's what surrender means.

quote:
You often write of God and faith in your recovery. I think this (FOO focus) has become an obsession, that is taking you away from God. And your W. Could you be distracting yourself?
quite honestly the last two days have been very good ones for me due in large part to that fact that I think I've been facing rather than trying to numb out the pain of my FOO stuff. I've been sharing about it in meetings and letting God help me with it. I've received more positive feedback from others including my wife and son lately because of my willingness to bring this pain to God in meetings and focus on it in recovery.

quote:
We cant 'solve' every one of our issues. You have to live the best life you can. Today. Tomorrow. What answer could you find that would give you peace? - Dru
i'm working on it. [Wink]

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quote:
Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
Could it be that not accepting them you actually don't accept yourself (the way you see (know!) yourself), and that not liking them you run from knowing how little you like yourself? Or they remind you of what you'd like to be but you are not?
Is focus on your family 'old good comfort', as an excuse not to deal with other issues, for this one is 'so big' that you have no energy left for other (more) important things?

Yes, all of us have any sample of human beings in our families... but it's... childlish? to blame them for our own feelings of incompetency, sadness, 'inadequacy'...

This is first thread/posts of yours I've read... it's jmo.. would like if way off...

fine, Then i'm childish. I guess that would fit me right in with the rest of humanity wouldn't it.

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quote:
fine, Then i'm childish. I guess that would fit me right in with the rest of humanity wouldn't it.

Yes, you are childish. Anytime a poster suggests that your issues are YOURS and not your FOO's you throw a hissy fit.

You can't change your FOO. You can only change and better yourself. Read back into this thread and many others you have started on this issue and you will see that the feedback is the same. You just don't want to hear it.

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quote:
Originally posted by FaithfulNewCJ:

I hope you will take the time to digest what I say to you and not just dismiss it of deflate it. That being said, please take the time, read what I write, and then PONDER IT A BIT.

I've given it two days. it's taken me that long to sit with it and see what comes up.

quote:
First, as you know, I have known you and your lovely W for quite a while now. I know of some of your issues and I know of some of her issues, and in THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE I would like to suggest that Some of the deep, darkness of this issue--Some of the severity of how it has plunged you into pain and sorrow--Some of it may be due to the depression state that you're in. That is not to diminish or minimize your agony--just to understand Some of it.
no doubt, I think it's getting better though. I've been allowed to vent alot in meetings lately and not felt as raging and conflicted inside as a result the past couple of days.

quote:
Second, having been a child who had a childhood much like yours, I have a unique ability to not only understand, but also EMPATHIZE with what you're feeling and how you're feeling. Kasey, it is a gut-wrenching, life-changing moment when, as an adult, you realize that your own parents are incapable of loving you in a healthy way because they themselves are unhealthy. It strikes to the very core of your being...WHY don't my own parents love me??

It was VERY painful to accept that my mom loved me to the extent of her capability but in her untreated, unaddressed mental illness, she was not capable of mature, intimate, parental love involving sympathy, empathy or responsibility. The best she could do was provide food and shelter for me. The worst was raging, beating, abusing and torture as she struggled with her own inner demons (for that is surely what they are). As an adult survivor and PARENT now, it hurts me to think that it was more valuable to my mom to protect herself from being emotionally hurt than it was to protect me, her child, from being physically hurt. It goes against my "Mommy Creedo".

Likewise it was VERY painful to accept that my dad loved me to the extent of his capability but in his untreated, unaddressed alcoholism and "I don't know what", he was not capable of mature, intimate, parental love involving sympathy, empathy or responsibility. The best he could do was provide food and shelter for me. The worst was sexual abuse, abandonment, and yet another kind of torture as he struggled with his own inner demons (for that is surely what they are). As an adult survivor and PARENT now, it hurts me to think that it was more valuable to my dad to protect himself from having to face his alcoholism than it was to protect me, his child, from being physically hurt. It goes against my "Parent Creedo".

I like the way you worded this. It's perhaps the most clear and accurate description of the reality of the situation I've ever heard. thankyou for sharing it.

quote:
Kasey, I understand the concept of your faith that family is SOOOOOoooo important and that families and family members can be sealed together forever. I also understand that this is one of the highest attainments for which a human family can strive as a spritual unit. HOWEVER (and that is one darn, big HOWEVER)...HOWEVER, I believe this is a goal toward which God would have us strive and to which sometimes we, in our human fraility, do not meet the mark. Surely God would never intend for a parent to treat their child with such abuse, pain and torture as I was subjected to...surely not.
someone reminded me recently of the line in the serenity prayer, "taking this world as it is, accepting hardships as the pathway to peace" I think God allows hardships surely so he does. I think his intention is that we grow and develop.

quote:
His goal is for a parent to be emotionally and spiritually mature, and to act in that maturity to bring up a child in love and His law.
generally speaking, yea, the idea has merit, it's an ideal.

quote:
This is not a goal which my parents hit. Period. I'm not being judgemental, just factual--they did not attain that goal.
my parents have fallen short of that too, I know they've tried, they've wanted to do that but they've also balked at certain parts of their own maturity/healing process. They're human.

quote:
Thus, I believe it would be cruelty to hold my feet to the fire because I did not want to be sealed forever to my abusive parents.
In my case I'm already sealed to my parents and grandparents. The challenge has been and continues to be to some extent how to LIVE with them in THIS life and how to let them be part of my life and part of my son's life without letting the triggering things they continue to do negatively impact me or my family. It's not easy to live with or let some people be a very active part of my life. The biggest conflict is in the lifestyle values they practice. I can't live like they do. I can't. And when they visit or get involved in holidays, well, i suppose what triggered all this was my mom needing more from me than I could give. I can't simply give them unlimited wish fulfillment whenever they want it from me. I just can't always be her savior whenever she falls apart and put her back together and make everything alright for her or for him for that matter. I'm not that almighty. I may WANT to make things alright for them but there are limits to what I can do. I have to accept sometimes that THEY can't accept my limits and take measures to protect myself from their imposition. If I can learn to do that without also despising that reality I'll have progressed. It doesn't seem right, yet it is what it is.

quote:
Yes, because of what happened to me, I have become the wonderful, empathetic, gentle, lovely woman that I am today...and I am thankful for that. It has formed me and served me.
I guess I've still got some rough edges in formation stage then.

quote:
Furthermore, I firmly believe in the verse that says, "In EVERYTHING give thanks, for this is the will of God..." and it does not say, "If it's good, give thanks, but if it's hard or hurts, you don't have to." It says IN EVERYTHING!!!! So I believe that God does HONOR our obedience when we thank him for our parents' imperfections and humanness.
he probably appreciates hearing that rather than the whining I can see the benefit on his end. Becoming grateful is important, like I said I'm still a work in progress.

quote:
But just as the believing spouse is released when the non-believeing spouse wants to go, chooses to go, and acts upon a divorce--so too, I believe God recognizes our humanness, our fraility, and our imperfection and allows us a release.
release nothin! my insanity goes with me wherever I go. I've been away from my parents for a couple decades now and still I have some of the sick crap in my head and it still punishes me with every bit as much merciless self justification as dad ever did when I was a kid. the release I need is from the voices in my head, the oh so very derogatory ones that never have anything good to say about myself. I need the release from the prision of the unreasonable expectations that drive me to feel guilty when I set appropriate limits. it's easy to move away it's not so easy to outgrow what I've learned to believe and learned to practice as a way of living.

quote:
Shoot, one of my favorite verses is "Guard your heart for it is a wellsring of life...", and that's because it is a reminder to me that MY HEART IS VALUABLE TO GOD. God finds no pleasure in my heart constantly and continuously being hurt! So He commands me to GUARD IT--protect it--keep watch.
I appreciate that. Guarding my heart is not something I was ever taught. I'm having to learn it now. I hope I get really GOOD at it.

quote:
Kasey, as children, it is our duty to HONOR our parents. Note that it does not say "love"...it says "HONOR":

--------------------------------------------------
Esteem due or paid to worth; high estimation; respect; consideration; reverence; veneration; manifestation of respect or reverence.
--------------------------------------------------
That which rightfully attracts esteem, respect, or consideration; self-respect; dignity; courage; fidelity; especially, excellence of character; high moral worth; virtue; nobleness; specif., in men, integrity; uprightness; trustworthness; in women, purity; chastity.
--------------------------------------------------
That to which esteem or consideration is paid; distinguished position; high rank.
--------------------------------------------------
Fame; reputation; credit.
--------------------------------------------------
To regard or treat with honor, esteem, or respect; to revere; to treat with deference and submission; when used of the Supreme Being, to reverence; to adore; to worship.
--------------------------------------------------
To dignify; to raise to distinction or notice; to bestow honor upon; to elevate in rank or station; to ennoble; to exalt; to glorify; hence, to do something to honor; to treat in a complimentary manner or with civility.


Look at these definitions a minute. They talk about stuff like offering esteem or respect to someone who behaves (manifests) respect. They talk about the kinds of characteristics and qualities that are considered honorable (respect, courage, morality, virtue, trustworthiness, purity). They talk about someone being honored for their high position. They talk about giving reverence to the Divine. And they talk about elevating or raising someone to a level of honor.

As a son, Kasey, this is your duty...to HONOR. But nowhere does it say that you have to keep openning yourself to repeated hurt and betrayal by your parents, nor does it say that you "have to" be all smooshy, lovey. In fact, there are quite clear instructions to PROTECT yourself from repeatedly being harmed!

well that's where I struggle to find that balance between protecting myself and honoring them. I do the best I can to server and honor them but when that comes at my expense it's gone too far. There are limits to what I can afford to do to serve them. I obviously pushed myself too far over the holidays. True to form. [Roll Eyes] I tend to overdo everything and then I correct. I'm just like a highly volitile stock. [Big Grin]

quote:
Our duty is to respect that our parents did the best that they could in their untreated states.
I do, I still hurt.
quote:
Our duty is to see whatever qualities and virtues of honorability they do have.
I do, I still hurt.
quote:
Our duty is to recognize they honor they deserve just for bringing us into this world and keeping us alive.

I do, I still hurt.
quote:
Our duty is to elevate them and raise them by our example of healthy, spiritual, godly lives.
It's a fine goal to be sure, and I still hurt.

quote:
In the end, here is the conclusion I reached. I have accepted the past, because I can not change it. I have accepted my parents' inability/unwillingness to admit or address their illnesses, because I can not change them. I CAN however change the way that I open myself to their harmfulness to me, and THERE...there is where I have found courage to shield myself from their harm and wisely place an extremely firm, protective boundary. My mom must go to IC for a year, admit/make amends for the abuse, and be in treatment and medicated before I will speak to her--otherwise her inability to control her illness is too toxic and harmful for me. My dad likewise must go to AA for a year, admit/make amends for his alcoholic behaviors, and be in true recovery (not just dry drunk) before I will speak to him--otherwise the lure of his illness is too strong and too harmful to me.
I get it.

quote:
Would I personally be "sealed" to my parents for eternity? Sadly, no. Would I be "sealed" to my children? OH YES!! Because whilst I am not perfect and they are not perfect, they cycle is ending with me, and they really are my soul family for eternity. Yep.
well the Lord apparently wants both the roots and the branches of the tree healed and the trunk as well. I just can't do it all. There is only so much I can do and the rest I have to let go and turn over to the care of a higher power.

quote:
Ponder, my friend. I look forward to your reply.


CJ [/QB]

I appreciate your sharing immensely and your empathy. having to protect oneself from a parent(s) is a hard thing. I idolized them so much. I thought that was honoring. Turns out it was merely believing pretenses and deceiving myself as to the truth. the truth is sometimes colder and more harsh than the childhood deceptions. it simpy is what it is.

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quote:
Originally posted by Kasey1:
fine, Then i'm childish. I guess that would fit me right in with the rest of humanity wouldn't it.

Hey, Kasey...

This kind of response is unbecoming of you. You are an adult man who does take personal responsibility, and IMHO this sounds a little snitty. We aren't trying to hurt ya here, okay??

BTW, I'm writing you a long reply, and will try to get it on the forum here in the morning.


CJ

[ January 20, 2005, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]

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