Recently I am more of a lurker than anything, and don't post anymore. But...for some reason...I have to here...

Not trying to speak for Bob, nor put any words into his mouth, but I think I clearly see his point...

...Which is...

Why make something complicated out of something so very, very simple?

NO contact is exactly that. NO...NONE...NADA..ZERO...

Not for pleasantries...NOT for business reasons...Not for ANYTHING!

Simply put...To some degree...we have to ALLOW contact in order to have contact. Unless, of course, someone is holding a gun to our head. I think what Bob is asking is...Why when you run into him on the street do you even speak AT ALL? If he is walking at the same pace as you, in the same direction, STOP...for 5 seconds...let him keep walking...If he stops...YOU start walking again....If he wants business, nope....can't do....

Bottom line is....We can remove ourselves from anyone. All we have to do is choose to do it. Rude, huh? Probably. So what? Nobody has ever said that enforcing NC was peaches and cream or a bed of roses. If...it takes rudeness...to enforce NC....so be it.

Suzet said:

"Both me and my H are good natured and forgiving people (especially my H) and maybe this is part of the problem. My H is a non-confrontational person who doesn’t believe in keeping grudges against people and on some level I’m the same. Although these are good qualities and something I really admire and appreciate about my H, I do see how some manupilative people like OM can misuse these qualities in both me and my H and use it to his own advantage if we are not careful."

You have to drop this attitude. You can't afford to be "non-confrontational", when you are "confronting" all the things we must in order to have a successful marriage.

I think this is waht Bob is asking.

My .02....


hcii

I think this is waht Bob is asking.


* applause ! * Correctamundo !

NOW, you hate my open loathing of my OM, you've said so before. I'm sorry that upsets you. A lot on here upsets me like good people convincing themselves they are doing the right thing when every fact screams 'rationalisation'.

My 2x4 to one of my best MB friends Jen was utterly welcomed by her and used as a print off to help her work through it with her husband. So that was my bad, right ?

I am not threatened by FWS and I have no idea where you get this from.

Also I have expressed nothing but personal OPINION just like every opinion expressed on here.

No feelings involved other than a concern for Suzet and her H with such casual contact still in place between OM and them.

I have made my point to suzette and will leave it there. Others agree with my point clearly however. DO THEY get intimidated by FWS too ?

All blessings NOW.

You too Suzet, you have to work this out in a way that suits you. However you YOURSELF smell a rat in yourprocessing of this situation else you would not have posted this thread IMO.


Some of my best friends on here are FWS, your accusation is false.

In fact FWS are some of the most vocal advocates of agressive NC.

Suzet and H think OM is a nice man. I can understand that from Suzet since no WW wants to accept she was attracted to scum.

In any event we always judge everything from our perspective. In my case---------- if I ever had an inappropriate friendship with a married woman I would certainly stay away once it was discovered---- particularly if the H knows about it. In fact I would apologize for my error and keep my end of the bargain by maintaining strict NC.

Like Kiwij once told my wife: “What part of NC you do not understand? The N or the C?”

According to the experts of this board NC is forever and not supposed to be wishy-washy.

If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.

Wow, stan, maybe you should reconsider this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this is truly how you feel, maybe you should ask myrta this. Not a 2x4, not an insult, just a little insight to what *you* posted.

Blessings,
LINY

stanley I agree with LINY mate, that was a bit harsh. Looks like what NOW accused me of - projection of personal feelings onto another sitch.

I've learned from this not to comment on FWS threads unless I know them very well and we have a mutual trust already set up.

Maybe its a lesson for all FBS huh ?

All blessings

{{{{{{{{{{Bob}}}}}}}}}

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

Bob Pure said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've learned from this not to comment on FWS threads unless I know them very well and we have a mutual trust already set up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you get to "know" them very well and build up mutual trust?

Bob also said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You jump to your own defence as if accused with everything I say. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have done the same thing to me. You said I "accused" you of interjecting personal feelings in your responses to FWW's. I did NOT. I said it "seems".......not, you ARE.

How do you get to "know" them very well and build up mutual trust?

By laughing, crying and interacting them in a consistent and trustworthy manner.
Is there another way ?

NOW I have no intention of arguing with you.

Suzet asked for opinion, I offered it after asking a few questions.

You said each situation is a little different, and I think Suzette is doing everything she can, and will take the advice she has received and use it IF it is helpful

I disagree. Suzet is not doing anything LIKE everything she can to maintain NC. And yes, each sitch is diffent but the Harleys mandate NC in EVERY SINGLE CASE of an A.

That , in summary, is my position here.

All blessings

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By laughing, crying and interacting them in a consistent and trustworthy manner.
Is there another way </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but on-line? Is it that easy?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> NOW I have no intention of arguing with you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? Then why...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I disagree </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but the Harleys mandate NC in EVERY SINGLE CASE of an A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But are they God? Is it possible that even experts can sometimes be wrong?

Bob, I don't know why I have this need to respond to you in a negative way. I'm well aware that I am doing that. I don't even disagree with most of what you are saying. All I can figure is that something about your posts brings out the defensive a#$ in me. I am really sorry about that. I know I've been a royal pain to you... almost like I'm "picking" on you. I'm sorry.
Bob, what is the WORST thing you've ever done in your entire life? The worst thing I've ever done is have an affair, which is perhaps, in most people's minds, second only to murder.

I would like to stop picking on you....can you help me figure out why I do it and how I can stop? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

God Bless You, Bob.

Not everyone can like everyone, thats fine. I have sort of become an UBER-FBS recently as we seem to be doing well after doing REALLY CR@P. I can imagine how annoying I must appear.Pleased as punch after six months hard work.

Just know that I truly know how dearly bought the "F" is in FBS. My own Squid is one just like you and I love her more than anything.

All blessings

<small>[ January 18, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob,

Thanks....it isn't that I don't like you....I certainly don't know enough to decide that. I believe what it is, is that I so desperately want you to be able to "see" what a FWS goes through, as much as you would like us to see what a BS goes through.....it is kinda silly to be having this tug-of-war. Can we agree it is hell for both parties? I know you know that, so you don't have to answer. I am truly sorry for calling you out and for being such a dork about it.
I know that you and Squid have been doing better recently, and believe it or not, I am VERY happy to see that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I hereby promise to remember we are all in different stages of recovery....and that what matters is that we ARE in recovery. Amen?
Now I want to hug you....I can see why you get those a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{{{{{{Bob}}}}}}}}}}

NOW we're all hurting, and hurt people speak forthrightly for many reasons.

Its K not to like me, it really is.

The only insight I have into the experience of a FWS is through my friends on here. They helped me be what Squid needed me to be when she was more spiteful than I ever dreamed possible to me and my kids.

And it worked, she is normalising and starting to enjoy her life a little again. We have a great hope of a future.

I think every BS is REELING from the assault of D-day at a time period when FWS can appear capable and superior.
It frankly appears like WS don't give a damn when BS are near suicidal.

I have learned from friends and my own Squid that many WS are not CAPABLE of processing that insult to the BS at that time and it takes love and care for them to reach a place where they can at all empathise.

Every time I see a man with a haircut the colour and style of OM I picture my baby running her fingers though it, whispering 'I love you' in his ear... and utterly loving the very experience that killed me inside, and that I may never recover from. Thats why I wonder if FWS can ever truly know the anguish of betrayal.

Its not a slight on FWS, really. I would never have known thsi pain had I not been a BS I could not imagine such pain without death.

Now, its my guess she no longer thinks of her affair with much fondness, well I hope so, but I can't be sure. She still can;t talk much about the A, and barely manages recovery talk.

In the same way, as my friend KY says I cannot imagien what it feels like to have INFLICTED such pain on one you love.

You are correct that we all hurt. Infidelity is horrible.

I DO beleive that your 'F' is hard earned NOW, honestly.

All blessings.

Suzet:

Is that you and your Hubbie posted on the picture page?

TooSoon

Suzet:

Whatever happened to the guy from England that was afraid to expose his WW's affair? I forget his board name.

TooSoon

Too Soon, I'm assuming your serious as Bob is one of the most prolific posters on the board (Sorry, Bob, I've called you talkative again) and was also one of the major contributors to this thread.

His name, if you're talking about the same person, is Bob Pure.

Jen

Toosoon –
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Is that you and your Hubbie posted on the picture page?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is. That photo was taken during our vacation at sea almost 2 years ago. We were out for dinner with friends that evening to celebrate my 30th birthday!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Whatever happened to the guy from England that was afraid to expose his WW's affair? I forget his board name.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toosoon, his board name is deseperatedan. As you know, dan stopped posting back in October, but on Christmas he send this post to his old thread (his post is the last one on the page). He said he and his W are still together and that she has agreed to go on the opposite shift from OM. Dan also send me this post during December and I replied to him after I returned from holiday. I haven’t heard from him since.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stan-ley:
<strong> Suzet and H think OM is a nice man. I can understand that from Suzet since no WW wants to accept she was attracted to scum.

AND

If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley, please stop making false assumptions. Also stop making disrespectful judgements about FWS's in general. Your last statement was VERY disrespectful and insulting. You don’t know me OR my H, so you can’t speak for us and make your own wrong assumptions about how we feel or think. I understand you are a BS and still hurt, but it is not necessary to take your pain and anger out on me (or any other FWS for that matter) by making such statements. I can't help to wonder how your W will feel about your attitude...

Thanks LINY and Bob for you support in this matter with Stanley. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ January 19, 2005, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> [b....that this is still ok with you on some level since you were not as strict with him as you SHOULD have been.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dunno. Speaking as an ol'e conflict avoider I know it's just not that easy to be "as strict as we should be". I think it's more likely Suzet might think "oh please, please just go away" if OM stays around, rather than "hmm, how nice that he's still interested in me".

I have learned there is a middle way. It's not like we have to either be compliant or agressive when confronted with inappropriate behavior. We can remain neutral but FIRM.

The book "I'm OK, you're OK" by Thomas Harris was really helpful to me. It learns you how to deal with people that cross your boundaries without agression.

Suggestion on how to deal with this.
Example: OM comes into your office and starts to chit chat with you.
You (calmly): "I would like you to leave. I don't want to talk to you."
OM (very friendly): "Oh come on, that's all in the past isn't it? Your H is fine with it, he told me so."
You (calmly): "I know he told you that. But I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM: (still very friendly): "Hey, I'm not going to make life difficult for you. Let's just be friends."
You (calmly): "I understand what you mean. But I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM (changing subject): "Did you know X is getting married?"
You (calmly): "Please understand - I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM (a little irritated now): "Why do you keep repeating that? We used to be such good friends. We could talk about anything."
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."
OM (definitely irritated): "Is that how you treat your friends? After all the time I spent listening to your problems, and being there for you?"
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."
OM (furious although keeping his voice down): "Oh, very well, if that's what you want! Is that really what you want? Really?"
You (calmly): "I don't want to talk to you."
OM (sighs): "OK, you can have what you want. I'll never talk to you again. I'll avoid talking to you whenever I meet you. (sarcastically) Now will that please you?"
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."

My point is - some people will do anything to manipulate you to get what they want. They will smooth talk you - blame you - make you feel ridiculous - they will be angry - until they finally realise none of their "tacts" is going to get them what they want and give up.

A gentleman would have stayed far, far away from you and you wouldn't have had to ask him TWICE (two letters). So if you'll stick to the plan: remain calm, friendly, and keep repeating what it is YOU want until it gets through his thick skull... he WILL get it. He might not smile and understand, but he'll get it and leave you alone. Don't get angry, scared, annoyed, sad, and don't try to "justify" what it is you want. Just keep repeating it (with little variations <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) until he gets it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brownhair:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> [b....that this is still ok with you on some level since you were not as strict with him as you SHOULD have been.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dunno. Speaking as an ol'e conflict avoider I know it's just not that easy to be "as strict as we should be". I think it's more likely Suzet might think "oh please, please just go away" if OM stays around, rather than "hmm, how nice that he's still interested in me".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brownhair, you are right. When OM is around I indeed thinking, "oh please, please just go away" and I certainly don’t like his ‘attention’ as some people has suggested. To the contrary, I feel irritated and frustrated when he tries to chit chat with me and I feel upset about his disrespect towards me and his ignorance of my boundaries, but experience from the past and TWO NC letters have shown me he is a manipulative person with a thick skull who probably likes to get ANY type of reaction (even it it’s negative). That’s part of the reason me and my H has decided to act as neutral and indifferent as possible without making a fuss. You have given me a very good suggestion with your post. Thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet:

So Dan is still hanging in there, good for him and his family.

You and your husband are a very attractive couple and you look like you belong together.

I enjoy your posts and your insite as a FWW.

TooSoon

Thanks for the compliment TooSoon and I'm glad my insight is helpful to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet