I'm a FWW seven months past DD and trying very hard to rebuild my marriage. I love my H; he has many strengths but recently we have been arguing more mainly because I am not prepared to continue with our past ways of interacting. I bring up a concern, he responds either critically or judgmentally or in a tit-for-tat method. It escalates from there. This has been a way of arguing long before the A. Basically, I gave up pre-A and withdrew from him. That was easy because I had two small children at the time (now there are three) and he both worked full-time and attended school full time. Of course, if I bring up a concern now, he has much more ammunition. I know he is exhausted; I am emotionally, mentally and physically exhausted from everything, A and post-childbirth.

Any advice on how I can help to break this cycle would be much appreciated. My children are beautiful and I know we both wish a happy home for them. However, I am beginning to despair that we can continue to provide that for them.

Bad, are you and your H in MC? Your R sounds very much like mine and my H's. We have been with the most fantastic pro-M MC for the past 7 months. Most progress we have ever made. She does a form of therapy called something like "emotion based". It is for couples that never really had the correct or deep emotional connection and need to kind of build from the ground up. If my H and I stay together (which I believe we will) it will be mostly due to the work with our MC.

BTW, I am both a FWW and BS.

bad d good d,

Sounds like you have your hands full, with 3 small children and a marriage to rebuild! Are you in MC? It's been 8 months since D Day for us, and things slowly get better. Just tonight, my H said, "It's so nice to see you smiling again!". It takes time... MC helped a lot, and my IC helps me too. While he and I don't talk enough, and he would rather just bury the past, we're getting along fine for now.

I hope that you'll find a new way to get along better.

CC

Yes, Faithful and Buttercup, we are in MC and we both have just finished stints in IC. We were doing well.

What triggered this, I think, is that with the MC I realized that when my H starts into me I withdraw from habit. He started in one session recently, I just said "fine", our counsellor looked over at me and said, "You do that alot." I guess we were doing well because I was not rocking the boat. I do not want to go back to the way we were before the A. I feel the problem is he is not prepared to help change the way we relate. He does not seem to understand that some of the things he says, when I try to discuss issues with him and he gets angry (which is almost every time I try to raise an issue), I perceive to be very condescending. Examples of what I have heard recently: are you stupid? why can't you organize your time better? are you proud of yourself? you're selfish, you're unable to see things from another person's perspective, you re-write history, that's inaccurate. If I point out how hurtful some of the things he says are, I am accused of being overly sensitive. I am tired of him denigrating my feelings and reality and holding himself out to be the ultimate arbitrator of truth.

I know I have to take some of this, that he is angry, I understand that, but I do not know how much longer I can continue.

BDGD- You have responded to me and helped me so much so maybe I can throw something out there to help you.

First, you sound like you are both very tired. That feeling of always being tired, always feeling pressured really weighs on a person and they react in ways they usually wouldn't and they say and do things that hurt people that they do not want to hurt. Pretty simplistic, but we all are/have lived through it. Is there something you guys can do to recharge your batteries?

Second, you said that your H is angry and acting out. Understandable. Might he need a refresher. What was the point of you both going through everything you have gone through just to destroy it now?

I can visualize your H saying those things to you (although I have no idea what you look like), in fact, I said some of those same thing to my WW (not exactly, but in the same disrespectful tone) and i know now why. Frustration. I was frustrated that I was not getting everything out of my M. My W was holding back, Now I know why. There was an invisible wall between us. Maybe bits of your wall is still standing, and H is starting to add to it.

How do you respond when someone speaks to you in that way? I don't know either. You hold your tongue because you don't want to rock the boat and upset him because you love him. But by doing that, you are internalizing and starting to resent him.

You said you bring up a concern...is it the way you bring it up, or is it a concern H doesn't share, is it really that big of a concern (nitpicking) (just playing devil's advocate here).

Is there a better way to bring up your concerns? Maybe the approach just isn't right. Puts H on the defensive and he lashes back.

Rereading some of the things H says to you...yeah he is lashing out...and you may be overly sensitive as well. The combination makes things much much worse.

I hope I may have something in this post that can help. If I maybe only raised a question that you haven't, then maybe I helped. I view things much simpler.

BTW, reading THAT BOOK, very interesting. I am starting to see the world differently. I could have a good discussion about how my WW seduced me (Ohh and seduce me she did, and I loved it.)

Thanks Bear. Your viewpoint has helped me. You said:

"I can visualize your H saying those things to you (although I have no idea what you look like), in fact, I said some of those same thing to my WW (not exactly, but in the same disrespectful tone) and i know now why. Frustration. I was frustrated that I was not getting everything out of my M. My W was holding back, Now I know why. There was an invisible wall between us. Maybe bits of your wall is still standing, and H is starting to add to it."

And you are right about "resentment". I specifically do not want that to grow again.

When I read your post I could see two people each laying bricks and slowly building a wall that separates them. But what struck me was the word "frustration". He's not angry; he's frustrated. I can understand that a lot better. I know this man wants me to be happy, personally fulfilled and committed 100% to our relationship. Over the years he has dealt with alot of ambivalence on my part and now he has to deal with betrayal. I guess he sees many of my concerns, or perceived failures in our family life, as more ambivalence, with possible future betrayal, and that brings out his extreme reactions. He's not a naturally hurtful man. He has worked very hard over the past months to allow himself to rebuild trust - taking care of the kids to allow me my long bike rides, go shopping to take a break, start my much anticipated night classes. I have to remember that each step takes a toll from him. He doesn't have unlimited emotional reserves. Characterizing his reactions as frustration, rather then anger, helps me to understand that.

Balancing independence, trust, reliance, obligations, individual and family needs is difficult under the best of circumstances.

BTW, that book will change your viewpoint. Remember, it is a two way process - you did the same to her as she to you. The author says if you did it once to a person, you can easily do it again. It is very empowering.

However, as a FWW, I found it very helpful for two reasons. One, the more honest and straightforward a person normally is, the harder they fall into a seduction. I think your WW's changes are evidence of that, as mine were. That was comforting to me because it meant that I was not necessarily an evil person for falling so far - in fact I fell so far because I was essentially a good person. Two, it helped me intellectually understand the intensity of the seductive aspects of an A - the triangulation, the secrecy and how that fuels the relationship, the transgressive elements, the regressive elements, the necessary seperations and how that fuels the imaginative/fantasy aspect of an A. I realized the part I played in the process and also how the OM was not necessarily the cause of my reactions - the process was.

Eventually, out of frustration will come anger. Have you ever been trying to, ohh, say, start a lawnmower and the dang thing just won't turnover. You have tried everything. The first 20 pulls or so you are just getting frustrated. Finally, eventually, you just start kicking the dang thing and swearing up a storm.

Some people easily and quickly reach that anger stage, others it takes time, it all depends on the person's temperment. Many times, those that hold in the frustration, then resentment, then anger blow their top the biggest. Or, act out in another destructive way, like an A. Also, it is a long hard process for that type of person to return to 'normal'. What type of person is your H?

I am quick fused to moderate. My feelings towards someone can change very quickly. My WW keeps things deep down inside. Very hard to get through to her. So, when we are in sitch like we are, I recover fast, she takes a long long time, if ever I fear. Requires much patience, which for someone whose mood can change quickly, like mine, makes it very difficult.

I would like to discuss that book more after I read more of it. I am only a couple chapters in, but man, it is eye opening.