Well I bought the voice recorder the other day and used it yesterday and today since my H will be home with the baby for 2 weeks. Upon listening to it today I hear him talking to someone.. I'm not exactly sure but I think its the exGF(because I saw an email they emailed each other while they were talking). The whole time he's talking about me and how our R has been. "She made me this," "She made me that." He talked about how I made him get rid of his furniture when we moved in to our new house, how he had to get rid of half is wardrobe. yada yada yada... There are all things he never expressed with me. He never brought this up with the counselor either. Errr... he doesn't say anything to me even if I annoy him... he just tells whoever. I guess I've been LBing w/out knowing it. Afterall, when we bought the couchs this weekend, I kept asking him what he liked.

HE also brought up our conversation the other day when I asked him about MCing. He said I'm obvoiusly not happy and I don't want to work it out. MCing won't work... He even laughed about me hurting myself (I fell down the stairs and my a** hurts bad), not only that I think I am getting carpel tunnel and had to see the doctor at my work. He just backstabbing me and can't say anything to my face. Who knows how long he's been doing this.... we've only been married 7 months now(maybe he's been doing it for 6 months).

Well I'm ready to stop with Plan A and shortly start Plan B although its probaby only been 2 months with Plan A. I'm hurt and I can't take living this lie anymore.

Can someone pleaseeeeeeee provide some words of encouragement and some advice. I'd appreciate it.

mahal

It sounds like you have a chance to stop an A before it happens. I would not go to Plan B yet. See if he will do the EN questionare with you. Beleive me you do not want to got through the hurt of losing your H to an A. Stick with plan A -- get him to do the questionare so you know how to meet his needs. You both are in a stressful time with a new baby and marriage.

tdr

Thanks tdr for your reply.

I do have a chance to stop an A because the exGF moved 6 hrs away. They just talk on the phone either when he is at work or when I'm not home.

I've tried to get him to fill out the questionaire but he will have nothing to do with that. So I tried to fill out the questionaire myself for him.

He believes what he feels is what is right. We should not have gotten married. I've been plan Aing and now that I decided to use the voice recorder I've realized I haven't been doing too well. I think one of the LBs would be that I still want to work on the M. I don't think i've given him any good reasons to try to work on it.

So what now? He obviously doesn't respect me... and if he's not happy why doesn't he move out?!?!

I just confirmed it, it was the exGF he was saying all those things to. Funny thing is... he won't talk to anyone else about our R because everyone else wants us to work on it while he doesn't. I guess she's the only one that will agree with him.

Time to expose the EA. Let others know that he likes talking to 'other women' (notice the plural), instead of his W about some of his thoughts an feelings. Ask for suggestions from them on what to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He may not want to MC but he may have to listen to a bunch of other people pretending t/b MCs. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let others know that he is ignoring you and the baby. That should score some points. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care of your little one. That s/b your priority and his also.

L.

I too used a recorder and got a total surprise . He was talking to co-worker and talking about us .He had just dropped me at the airport and within 15 min. this co-worker called to talk business and then He asked "how are you doing" -the conversation turned personal -him telling her I was going to my dads to deal with some insecurities -LIE -i was going to visit my 89 yr. old father . She must have said she was starting MC because his response was -"me too ,this wk, , first time -LIE -we've been in MC for almost 1 1/2 yrs. Boy did I get frosted !! Started checking phone bills tec. and saw they've been talking for a couple of months . We had renewed vows 9 mo. earlier .Since no physical contact he sees nothing wrong with befriending a co-worker -he's very social and everyone wants to talk to him . BTW -just met her this weekend at business and she is a dog- looks like a transvestite -don't know if that makes me feel godd or bad- haven't figured that out yet -still digesting
It does sound like you nipped it in the bud -they have NO business discussing your relationship at all .PERIOD. I suggest sitting him down and try discussing calmly -boundaries etc.. and how it makes you feel . I wish i could have followed my own advice - i went nuts
EA hurt just as much as PA in my book so I know how you feel knowing H shared personal info with someone besides you.

Thanks Orchid...

When I see him now, I'm so disgusted. He can say all that crap to the OW, say jack to me and act like everything is ok.

I've asked my MIL about his relationship with the OW to see what she says but I only told her that I thought he was going to her to talk and not to me. I'm afraid to bring up the voice recorder. Should this be something I bring up when I tell his friend/family about the OW? I mean he should be coming to me to talk, right?

khb5.. you're right. He should be discussing this with me. Of the 4 times we went to MCing he never discussed any of these issues. He doesn't know he's in the FOG. I also told him that if he didn't want to go to MCing that he should consider seeing and IC...he said he didn't need to see one. I'm afraid to discuss this with him because I used the recorder. He'll definitely give me a hard time with that one. In a way I don't think i'm respecting his privacy. That was one of the issues he had with me before.

mahal - This is already an affair.

That's the bad news.

ANYTIME a spouse is confiding in someone else (of the opposite sex) and lying about or exaggerating their spouse's faults, an emotional affair - at least - is already underway.

Do not pay attention to his false accusations to her about you. He's merely trying to gain her sympathy and trust to further the relationship. The bigger the lies he has to tell, the better off you are.

This is all straight from the WS script. Very, very, very typical. And that's the good news. Everything you can learn here directly applies to your situation.

What should you do?

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Do not even THINK about Plan B or divorce at this time.

I'd also keep mum specifically about what you know and how you know it. Just confide in your MIL as you have already done. Reason > to her and others, what has transpired - even if they believe it - will not be considered an affair, just as you thought it wasn't. If and when you get better evidence of a physical affair, or plans for them to get together, then spill the beans about the recorder.

In the mean time, Plan A your butt off and DO NOT expect instant results from your H. You'll know you're doing a good job as the lies to OW continue. Try to see the humor in it all. He HAS to turn you into an ogre in order to justify his actions. I ended up looking like Shrek - just ask Orchid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi worthatry...

I will move past this and continue Plan A... I thought I was doing well with Plan Aing but having hearing his conversation with her, i wasn't. That's probably because I brought up the R.

So I need physical evidence that a PA may happen?!?! I'm not sure it will since she lives 6 hrs away in another state. What about confiding with others (friends/his family) as to him talking to her instead of me?

hi,
it doesnt matter that ow lives in another state, if he wants this to turn into something physical it will.
my h's affair began with someone 5 hours away in another state while he was away for work. he even paid for ow to come to him once.
reewil... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Its not an A but I'm so hurt!

Well I'm ready to stop with Plan A and shortly start Plan B although its probaby only been 2 months with Plan A.
If it's not an affair, why are you doing Plan A/Plan B?

I thought I was doing well with Plan Aing but having hearing his conversation with her, i wasn't. That's probably because I brought up the R.
There is no problem with dicussing your relationship in Plan A. In fact. you should be letting him know what your boundaries are in your relationship. Things that are acceptable/not acceptable.

<small>[ January 20, 2005, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by much mahal:
<strong>I thought I was doing well with Plan Aing but having hearing his conversation with her, i wasn't.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no!!!

Re-read what I wrote above.

The efficacy of your Plan A (on him) is best determined (at this stage) by the opposite of his treatment of you. The more lies and the worse he treats you while talking to OW, the better job you're doing. Just accept this for now.

The REAL part of Plan A is what you discover about yourself. Identify your faults - no matter how small - that contributed to the poor marital state pre-affair. Then correct them. Then demonstrate your improvements to your H. Find and complete the EN questionaire. Ask your H to fill one out so you can better understand what his needs are from you, but if he does, take it with a grain of salt - he's pre-determined to be critical in order to justify what he's doing with OW.

This is all you can do other than exposure.

I recommend you tread very lightly on the exposure front given the facts - only phone conversations and she's miles away. The most important exposure has already occurred - you confronted him, right? If not, you should. Read CarenMc's post about her discoveries and actions using a recorder. Text book. But her sitch is different - you shouldn't go for the Full Monty exposure at this point, I don't think. Just consider her actions in the way she confronted her H.

Continue counseling and tell all to the counselor. Make sure he/she is pro-marriage and if you get any advice that seems contrary to MB principles, ask here about it.

Do you have "Surviving An Affair"? If not, get it today.

WAT

This sounds a lot like what I was doing... I talked about OAK like he was some kind of horrible person, "embellishing the truth" or relaying things to my male "friends" in the worst possible light to make him look really bad so they would feel sorry for me... I don't envy you in your position, because I think that what I did, and what your WH is doing, is in some ways worse than a PA.

I have no advice, other than to listen to what everyone has already said. They seem to know their stuff around here.

Best of luck to you!

-FallingUp

This is Much Mahal on my other account.

reewil, you're right... my H will be traveling soon for work and I think one of the places will be close to the OW. Once I hear that is official, I assume they will want to see each other.

worthatry, I guess what I mean by the phone conversation was that one of his LB's is that I use to talk about our R all the time. I've cut back on that and I'm trying to make myself look good instead of talking about our R. But I see what you're saying... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The more lies and the worse he treats you while talking to OW, the better job you're doing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as exposing what I know...am I suppose to tell him I know he was talking bad about me? If I do, I'll have to tell him about the recorder. He'll be more cautious and probably only talk to her while he's at work. He'll be home for another week then its back to work where he'll talk to her as much as he wants there. Maybe I will expose when he is about to go back to work. During our last conversation, I did ask him if he talks to her often and he says he does to catch up with her every once in awhile. I also asked if he still thinks about being with her, he said no (but the last time I asked, 2 months ago, he said he does think about it).

I've asked him to complete the EN questionaire but he won't. So tried to do it myself for him. But I will continue with Plan A... working on me and fulfilling his ENs.

I suggest you not reveal your tape recorder just yet. But I think you can use the information you have in pursuing efforts to try to get him to engage in conversation about what you can add/change in the marriage. Try bringing up things he has said to OW in conversation in this regard.

For example, if he has claimed to OW that you're a bad kisser, casually ask him something about the way you kiss him. Cast the bait.

Do not dwell on whether he is talking to her or not. Assume he is. You don't even need to record him any more. Assume this is a full blown EA. Concentrate on your Plan A. When you suspect he is lying to you about phone calls or anything that suggests he's being secretive, ask him to explain.

In that he refuses to fill out the EN questionaire means he is not interested in working on your marriage right now.

The other alternative at this point is to spill all the beans and tell him about your taping. This will certainly bring everything out in the open. Please consider this alternative. I cannot know the best course from a distance. I hope you get other heads on this.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do not dwell on whether he is talking to her or not</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is this so hard to overcome?!?! Yesterday he talked to her while I was out shopping, when I get home he says he has to do something, so he leaves the house and tries to call her back. Today they talk again... when I called the house he told me he had to go because he was talking to his sister --whatever.

I'm still waiting to hear back from my MIL. She hasn't read the email but I'm hoping she will soon so she can provide some insite.

I have decided to hold off revealing the recorder. I wasn't sure how often he talked to the OW because he was always at work but now that he is home for 2 weeks I can get a better idea of his need to talk to her. So far its been everyday this week.

In the meantime... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I suggest you not reveal your tape recorder just yet. But I think you can use the information you have in pursuing efforts to try to get him to engage in conversation about what you can add/change in the marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...I'll try this.

I am also going to wait because I would like to find another counselor. (The first one told my H to get over this feeling while the second one wasn't sure how I should deal w/my situation and really wanted me to bring my H).

Can anyone refer me to a counselor in DC Metro Area (preferably in VA)?!?!

Hi MM --

Sorry you're dealing with this. I'm not an expert, but I would advise that if you think he is planning a trip where he will see her, you should tell him in a quiet, calm voice that you know he is, at a minimum, emotionally involved with another women and revealing things to her about your marriage that is disrespectful, hurtful, and unacceptable. If he presses for HOW you know, you don't have to tell him -- you know -- he knows, and you don't have to reveal your sources right now, because he has shown himself to be untrustworthy. I would avoid any fight, and if he tries to start one, I would walk away. Let him know that when he's ready to be honest with you, you're willing to talk.

Then I would go on with Plan A.

IMO, you need to deflate his build-up to seeing her. Having him travel anywhere NEAR her now sends up red flags for me, and you may burst his bubble a bit.

Maybe some others with more experience can weigh in on this too.

Take care and hang in there --
Shellybird

Errr... another day and another excuse. I forgot to buy batteries for my daughters new toy. He decides he'll go. He goes and 45 mins later i'm wondering where he is (the store is 2 miles away). I call his cell phone, he's on the other line and I ask who he's talking to. He says he was trying to call his brother and that there were a lot of people at CVS. Whatever, its starting to snow hard and there's no one on the roads. Well I check and he was talking to her. Suck a liar.. he doesn't know what he's doing.

Well I also received a reply from my MIL. She basically tells me what she thinks about the two of them. She doesn't think there is anything romantic but that she see's him as a big brother. I'll email her back telling her what I think.

Ahhh, I just need to vent. I need to see a counselor and I wish I had someone to talk to. The two people I talk to now are tired of hearing me complain... they don't know what to do.

Like a brother my foot!
I don't talk to my brothers that much!

It is brewing and you should tell him you are aware of his relationship and good luck!