I'm a new member and I wasn't really sure where to post this, but this area seemed to get the most attention. I'm very sorry about the length, but this is eating at my head and I need to get it out somewhere.

I'm 24 and my wife is 23. We've been married for almost 4 years now, which yes, to some people would be that we married young. I personally don't subscribe to that. I was ready and she said she was too. We had really only dated for about year before that, but we had been emailing for a long time. I met her through my best friend, whom I work with. They were going out at one point and then suddenly stopped. She and I only started talking because I was curious as to why. She and my friend never had sex, but they tried once. I guess he knew he didn't want to be with her and couldn't go through with it. So, when we started dating, we were both virgins.

My wife hated my friend, with a passion you could say, until about 3 months ago. Out of the blue she started emailing him. When I first asked why, she skirted the issue. When I asked what they were talking about, she said "Nothing". Being the paranoid person that I am, it immediately set bells off in my head. I've been reading thier email since, and while she isn't cheating with him I get the feeling that she wants to. She's admitted to me that she finds him sexually attractive. The email is very flirtatious, they talk about very personal things, and sometimes she complains about me in a way that looks like she wants him to console her. He's single and hasn't been with anyone in a while, and for some reason she repeatedly brings up sexual situations with him and has even told him "if I weren't married I'd be jumping in to bed to $%@# the crap out of you." when he complains about his sex problems.

A few nights ago I couldn't sleep (unrelated), so I was just laying in bed. She started giggiling and squirming in her sleep, then started saying his name. I know it was just a dream, but I flew off the handle. I confronted her about it that night, asking her if there was anything going on that I should be worried about. (But picture that in a very irrational way). I did everything short of tell her that I had been reading the email and she wouldn't fess up to more then just wanting to be friends with him again. Then she questioned why I don't think men and women can ever "just be friends". She doesn't have any female friends in this city. She seems to go out of her way to not make friends.

Last night, the discussion came to light that she now thinks she married too young. She wishes she could have been with more men. She wishes that I would have been with more women. She also says that this is because I've pressured her because I told her that she's the only thing that I can always count on to be good in my life. I thought it was a compliment. I also found, last night, that she'd discussed getting separated with one of her female friends before any of this happend, and then again yesterday. I can only assume that she wanted to separate so she could sleep around. I can't think of any other logical reason.

I've read this site, and I know that I've not been doing everything right, but I'm not a disassociative jerk or anything. I try very hard to do whatever it is she says she needs, but now I'm positive she isn't telling me everything. I'm starting to think that she's just decided that I'm not the one she really wants to be married to and anything I do to try and fix that will be viewed as attacks on her fidelity or trust.

I'm lost and confused. Is this just rebellion? I keep telling myself that I need to stop reading the email and wait for her to figure this out on her own, but I can't do it. I have to know what's coming next because I won't allow her to take it to the next level if I can stop it. How do I get her to start coming to me with the truth? How do I go from dancing around in circles to fixing this?

broken, I didn't want your first post to go unnoticed. It sounds like your W is in the beginnings of an EA, which could quickly become a PA. Have you read the basic concepts on the site? Go buy His Needs, Her Needs. See if you can get your W to fill out the Emotional Needs questionaire. It sounds like maybe her needs are not being met and has perhaps unfinished business with this old boyfriend. Very dangerous situation.

Keep reading and posting. God bless.

She wants your permission to go and screw other guys.

Now if that doesn't throw you for a loop, not sure what will.

She is a WS at heart and having and EA with your friend. What is your friend saying? Is he encouraging it?

She may tire of him and go prowling for others. All the while making more and more excuses. You have only begun to hear those old excuses. ILYNLY, married too young, accuse you of having an A, trying to set you up with others, change her moods and dress, go to bars, do stupid things to try and pick up guys, etc.....

There w/b nothing good you can say to her right now. She is having an EA at the very least with no sign of stopping.

So you can't control her. But you can control how you let her actions and words affect you.

What have you read from here? What have you found beneficial so far?

Look forward to your posts.

take care,
L.

Broken-

I'm so sorry that you are going through this, but you are in the right place. I don't know this to be a fact, but I'd say it'd be easier to stop an EA before it becomes physical.

You have the 'proof' of what she's doing by the e-mails, I would say you start plan Aing your butt off and Expose (Print the e-mails twice....keep copies for yourself and show her the other copies....which she'll likely shred and change her password on you) But without confrontation it's just going to get worse.

Don't do anything until you hear from a few other MBer's on here that have WAY more experience than I do....but I feel if I'd have known about my Wayward Husband's EA before it became physical, I could have shown him that I could change and meet all his emotional needs, and it may have fizzled out.

Right now my WH and I are separated, neither one of us live in the house we lived in together. I exposed the living crap out of his affair (I suspected it for about 5 or 6 months...but only got actual proof 1 week ago today) And I got that by a voice activated tape recorder on his telephone line (which the "proof" was NOT pretty).

So now they both know I know, I have exposed the affair to EVERYONE I could think of that might have some sway over them, with the exception of the OW's parents (She's 33, not sure they can do anything about it) but I've been thinking more and more that I should call them (I have her cell phone records....don't ask, it wasn't legal).

Does she have a cell phone??? If so you can go online and establish the account, and see her "usage"....see who she's calling. I guess I would accumulate as much undeniable evidence as I could, and then sit her down and explain that you know, and that you are willing to meet her emotional needs. Giving her the Emotional needs questionnaire is a good idea, I assume a woman would be a little more receptive than a guy would (i.e. my WH wouldn't touch a questionnaire or marriage counseling with a 10 ft pole)

I think you can save this if you play your cards right, but as I said DO NOT DO ANYTHING until you hear from some more seasoned members of Marriage Builders. I have a little trouble taking myself out of your place, and am just telling you what I would do......I am right smack in the middle of the affair, am too new to give really sound advice....GET THE BOOKS...His needs/Her Needs and Surviving an affair (And on the surviving an affair book, PLEASE don't think "Oh this doesn't apply to me"....that's what I did the 1st time I read it, when I could've saved tons of time if I'd just been open to it, but I was being told "You're crazy...we're just friends, and I bought it hook, line and sinker....BIG MISTAKE).

-Caren

^Bump^ HEY someone else give this guy some advice before he takes mine....LMAO

-Caren

<strong> She wants your permission to go and screw other guys.

Now if that doesn't throw you for a loop, not sure what will.</strong>

She's admitted this. We had a lenghty discussion about it last night. She feels controlled and held back by me and just wants to be able to "do whatever she wants", which I know means "sleep with whoever I want." While at the same time she tells me that she knows these feelings are juvenille and she says that she doesn't actually want to leave me.

Her girlfriend isn't helping by telling her we should separate. I told her last night that separating so she can go sleeping around will mean she wants to end our marriage. She seemed hurt by this, so I can see that maybe she doesn't want to leave me. Of course she won't stop talking to him, either. Then, she explained to me that the only reason that she didn't leave before is that she doesn't want to move back with her parents and can't support herself on her own. Then she follows that by saying she's in love with me and doesn't want to leave me.

It's a lot like slamming my head into a wall, right now.

<strong>She is a WS at heart and having and EA with your friend. What is your friend saying? Is he encouraging it? </strong>

He's not stopping her, but I don't think he fully understands what is going on in her head. I need to confront him on it, but I'm very bad at that kind of thing.


<strong>So you can't control her. But you can control how you let her actions and words affect you.

What have you read from here? What have you found beneficial so far? </strong>

I've read the entire site. I've showed the site to her. I explained to her that I know I must not be meeting some of her emotional needs, but she did't buy it. She says she's happy. She doesn't want counselling. She won't go see a therapist.

I'm so confused. Affair or not, I don't know if she's going to stay, or if I'll be able to carry this through. The onset of depression is already pretty bad. Of course that's just making her worse.

I plan to buy the book and read it, but I don't think I'm going to be able to get her to read it.

Thanks for the kind words. How do I get her to go to counselling? I need someone else to point to her and say this is wrong, cause my friend and her friend won't do it.

B.

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: brokendown ]</small>

Sorry... what's an EA and a PA? I was guessing Extra-Marital Affair... but can't think of what PA is.

EA=Emotional Affair
PA=Physical Affair
OW=Other Woman
OM=Other Man
WS=Wayward Spouse
WW=Wayward Wife
WH=Wayward Husband
BS=Bereaved Spouse
SF=Sexual Fulfillment
LB=Love Buster
D-Day=Discovery Day/Date
There is a list somewhere...but I don't know what the link is for that.

But those are the common ones.

-Caren

Thanks.

Hi BD and Welcome,

PA means Physical Affair,EA means Emotional Affair.There is a list of acronyms on the JFO(Just Found Out) message board if you need it.

I know you said that you don't subscribe to the "getting married young" issues but they are real,for many people,not all.As teenagers,you barely had but a year to get to know one another(e-mails don't really count in my book) and then you get married which carries with it many responsibilites and also in which many if not most people these days rarely get educated about first before walking down the aisle.There are preconceived notions,romantic ideations and unrealistic expectations.

So,where does that leave you now? Well,in all honesty,you may very well lose your W(wife) at some point.Of course I hope not but it takes a certain kind of person to be open to exploration and growth of oneself and your W sounds immature to me.She really is in the sense she has little experience in adult mature relationships let alone marriage.You are not the first one here to have a young spouse who shows signs of wanting to flee responsibility and the "contraints" of marriage.I know that's hard to come to terms with but it's a serious issue for you.Many young people live under the spell of the "grass is always greener" approach to problems.

You can only change yourself and better yourself,that is your journey.It would be wonderful for your W to be on that with you but right now she is caught up in this other man(OM) and the emotion swirling around.Get into counseling for yourself,try to encourage your W to go but be prepared she might refuse.She probably doesn't want anyone's help right now.She "knows" it all.Be calm and don't yell.Be open to discussion and express your feelings to her.Read and educate yourself with the books recommended here and read up on Plan A.That is a start.

Your W is obviously conflicted so right now you MUST present yourself as a loving confident and supportive husband,not a threat or confrontational.Let her try to figure this out but just be there for her and take care of yourself too.There are no magic bullets to this and it's not going to be all better overnight.This will take TIME.Hang in there.

O

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

^

O, thanks. I understand what you're saying. There's part of me that really wants to let her go and do what it is she thinks she needs to do. I almost think we'd be better of for it in the long run, but I don't think I could handle it emotionally.

I keep forgetting to add this point: she wants to get pregnant. Before any of this started to surface, we had talked it over and decided that we were both ready (I had not been ready previously, knowing that we were young). I'm just not sure what to do with it anymore. I want to have children with her, but not when she's acting like this.

I'm cleaning the house right now... I know that's one of her things. She's always telling me that she likes the house clean. I figure if she won't tell me what her needs are, I'm going to have to figure them out for myself.

Hi again,

If I may suggest,don't entertain thoughts of "letting her go" and leaving or whatever right now.You may end up really facing that later on but your focus should be what we all have been telling you: taking care of and educating yourself,fill any needs you might think your WW has,be open and honest,suggest the ENQ(emotional needs questionnaire) or at least start it yourself,read up on and implement Plan A,seek counseling and get support from family and friends as much as you can.It's a long road.

As for having a baby,well,you must know that that should NOT be a consideration right now.It will neither solve your marital or personal problems but WILL guarantee more hardship,responsibility,possible resentment and neither of you,especially your WW, is capable of being the kind of parent a newborn/child needs at the moment.Any child deserves and needs 2 loving and STABLE parents with a solid foundation of marriage/family.You don't have that right now.First things first,OK?

Good for you to be cleaning the house.In the end,you want your WW to remember what a good husband you were,if there is to be a chance at recovery.

O

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

You can be the best H right now and that won't be enough. Why? Because in an EA, the BS can't do anything right. So why burn yourself out.

Instead, get smart and work on your personal improvement. She won't see or appreciate any of that right now. In fact she may get angry that you are becoming a better person. But don't let that stop you.

As for her reasons NOT to move... they are weak. If she is brave enough to have an EA, then she s/b willing to sleep in the streets because that is what an EA is, an affair in the streets....not an R in a safe environment. She has thrown her heart ,mind and maybe soon body out on the street.

You have no idea what the OM's GF is being told. OM's GF may not know of the EA. Have you told her such?

Reading the books and IC is for you. Not her. You do it to help you. One day when the fog clears she will need your help and if you still want to give it fine. If you do a good plan A and improve you, then when she is ready to come back to reality and you are willing then you can share what you are learning. 'Til then...... don't try to educate or protect the WS.

Instead love her when she is your W but stay away from the WS. Now you need to learn the difference. WS wives are highly manipulative creatures. She can turn on the charm and fool you that she is your W when really you are being setpu by a WS for another fall.

Keep posting here and the H's whose wives are doing that will help you to know how to watch for those hurtful words and actions.

take care,
L.