when i first found out about my wifes affair, i told her i was scared to death to be alone. i don't feel that way anymore.i know i would be alright. that scares me because that is not what i want. i have been doing a good plan a, meeting her en's she will let me , and no lb's. she says she is willing to try, but i wonder why? is it just for the kids? she says she cant remember the last time she knew without a doubt that she loved me. that hurts, but i don't think she is thinking clearly. it is 13 weeks since DD and NC.
the OM is not a factor now, she just doesn't know if she can "love" me again the way she should. i have told her i forgive her and that she needs to forgive herself.

we are going to MC monday, and i am thinki9ng about telling her that i am not afraid anymore. if she wants out of this m, i will be ok and we can end it.would this be a mistake?does she need to know that i am tired of felling like i am the only one trying, and that i am about at the end of my rope? i don't want to sound like i am trying to manipulate, but i want her to know that i have gotten stronger, and she is not calling all the shots.
i guess i need/want her to realize that i am not that far from giving up. would that help wake her up?
i don't know, i am just thinking oput loud.
thanks for listening,

arjdad

p.s. we are practically living like brother and sister. we are getting along better, but no affection in a looooonnngg time <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hey Arjdad,

If these feelings of your are truly sincere and this is truly how you feel, I don't see how you expressing your thoughts and feelings to your W can be bad. If you say your not trying to manipulate your WW and that you just want to let her know how you feel then I say go for it. IMO though you must not expect anything in return for your expression of feelings. If you were expecting something from her I think that would mean that your trying to extract/illicit a response from your WW... manipulation.

As for your MC I would say go ahead and tell her your true feelings.

#1. You want your M to work and to be better than ever.

#2. That your a stronger better man, and that you will survive and flourish with or without her, your hoping for with her.

A few thoughts...
Native

native,-

thanks for the input, somethings to think about. i hope to get more responses and have more ideas of what to do.
i haven't heard from you in a while. how are things with you? i hope you are doing well.

i am out the door to daughters b-ball game, last game 10 points, 11 rebounds her best ever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> i will catch up later.

arjdad

maybe sub-consciously i am trying to manipulate her into making some decisions and efforts quicker? i don't know

Hey Arj,

Yeah I've been gone for a while, dealing with my pain and trying to lick my wounds.

I'm sure you will get a lot of sound advice from the vets around here. I just wanted to post a few things to you. I'm sure you'll get some great ideas on what to do.

Sounds like you have an all-star on your hands, get ready for the big shoe endorsements that will come <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Native

Arjdad,

Hi! Haven't spoken to you in a while. I agree that you should share your thoughts with your wife. I also think that IC for both of you would be helpful, if it's possible. It's great that you think you'd be okay on your own. You both need to bring a healthy relationship together, and you need to be whole and healthy on your own in order to achieve that.

I think it's great that you're getting along "as brother and sister". It's under-rated. You need to get along as close friends AND as a couple. IMO, the friendship has to be on track before the romance could possibly start again, but maybe that's just me.

I'm hoping that your wife will love you enough to want this to work. YOu have to be honest with her though, and she should be honest with you, as much as she could be. How's she doing with the fog and all? Is she making any progress? How are you doing? You sound pretty good. Hope all else is good.

I'll fill you in on things here when I can (or you can ask Myrta!). Take care!

CC

P.S. I told Myrta that she could give you my email addy if you ever needed to talk!

Arj:

It seems like your ordeal is going to take a looooooooooooooooooong time to get solved.

You say OM is not an issue. Wife said OM is not an issue. However, things are stagnant.

Many of the pundits of MV have said that when all the work of recovery is done by the BS you end up with a false recovery. When the WS finally gets going then you have true recovery.

I am recovering because my wife is working on the marriage. I do my part and she does her part------------- but her part is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

There are many here living like bro and sis with no SF for a very long time. I guess it depends on how long you want to wait and how much effort you want to put into this. I have also heard about men that work on the marriage for3-4 years to then realize they were spinning their wheels and could have gotten out much sooner. If I was going to get divorce I would rather do it now than in 3-4 years. In addition I could not live with the uncertainty of not knowing where the marriage is going. At least I am at peace knowing that we are working to have a successful marriage.

So it is up to you. You may decide you want to work on this for the next 3-4 years not knowing whether you will have success. Or you may tell your wife that you have decided to separate if things do not improve in the next 4-6 months. Cerri once said that sexual passion can be born from the idea of knowing one is losing the mate. For us men is called sperm competition, but women have it too when they are confronted with the idea of losing the H.

arj,

You are only a little over three months out. You should start to feel what you feel. It is healthy because it will allow you to stand back abit as your W goes through withdrawal and starts to enter recovery. I have a thread for you to read that will give you an idea how a WS can feel. SKM's marriage by the way is doing well after all of this time and they now have a child. So click on the bookmark and notice the time line of her recovery.

Here it is SKM's Chronicles

God Bless,

JL

buttercup-
the part about being friends first before romance is what our MC says too.but that is hard to take given we have been married almost 19 years. i think she is making progress, but then again i may be wishful thinking.i am hoping and praying that she will WANT it to work too. thanks for replying, we will catch up later[ i will ask myrta for your e-mail]

stan-ley,-i don't know if things are stagnant, but they are definately going slow at best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> the thing about if the BS does most of the work scares me a little, because i feel like i am doing most of the work. i am trying to meet her en's, and she is doing nothing [it seems] to meet any of mine. and i do think about spinning my wheels and it not work out anyway, but how would i know? i don't want that to happen, but i love her to much to quit yet.i do think she needs to know that i am not afraid to be without her and alone tho.maybe if she thought[realized] that she was slowly pushing me away and losing me, maybe she would come around? i don't know. thanks for your reply.

JL,-

i know 3 months is not long in this, so i am where i should be? i find myself questioning wether i even want the m to work out. i know that i do,but i still wonder. i know i should not expect anything from her yet, but that is getting hard to do. patience is not my strong suit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> i read the thread you sent, and it gives me hope,even though she says our problems started way before the A.thanks for posting and helping me out,

arjdad

Arj,

Just one more thing. I DO agree that living like brother and sister isn't desirable for an extended period of time. I just think that everything needs to be rebuilt, from the ground floor up, and to me and my H, that starts with our basic friendship/relationship. We had to practically learn to fall in love again, to trust each other again, and most important, to learn how to communicate better than before. It all takes time, but if you're feeling frustrated, I'd communicate it to your wife.

You're on the right track. Hang in there! TTYS.

CC

arj,

Wow, this post could've been written by me. I am about 10 months since d-day, and ww is about 5-6 months into NC that I can confirm. I will echo Stanley's comments that both partners must must be activley working on the M to make it work. My ww is just waiting our time out until we move to see if she can heal after all the triggers are removed (we live in Italy and OM was Italian). B/c of that, she is barely trying, mostly out of guilt, fear of family and friends finding out, and for the kids. B/c I am in military and a man, automatically means she gets custody, and I am very close to my daughters, especially my youngest.

So, you are right to wonder "how long"? I do everyday. Just last nite after being rejected again for SF, I told ww I cna't live like this and stormed out. If your w is not putting in the serious efforts that you can see and appreciate, you will build up a ton of resentment, I know. Guard againist this, resentment is hard to keep at bay as a BS, especially when you feel you are doing all the heavy lifting.

Tell your w that you can't wait forever. Six months ago, I would still break down and cry, tell her how I hurt and I was scared. Those days are gone. I still cry a little, but now it b/c of losing my relationship with my daughters. I can see myself living alone and single again. I think you should be honest with your w, after all, a lack of honesty is a key part of all affairs. My ww knows that I have spoken with an attorney, and that scared her. I know she won't initiate a D, that is just not her nature. But, I can't live unloved forever. And I doubt you can either.

SO SHOULD I GIVE HER A TIME LINE OF WHEN I EXPECT HER TO MAKE NOTICABLEPROGRESS AND EFFORT? sorry about the screaming. gotta go watch d play b-ball, thanks for all the help,

arjdad

No Arj,

No timelines at least openly to her. You may set a timeline for yourself to reevaluate the situation. Don't do the reevaluation on a daily or weekly basis, you will miss the progress.

As for them doing nothing, it is hard to tell. Everyone forgets the WS must heal to. Not so much from what you did, but what they did to themselves. And because they did it to themselves it is hard to face and much easier to blame the BS. But with time comes the realization that they did this to themselve. I think SKM's chronicles shows this process well. It was she that had to heal, get back on the ground and figure out she could do this to someone she loved.

It took her awhile to get out of the "if I could do this to him I must not love him enough" line of thought and step back a bit.

So have some patience. You don't have to kiss her feet every night, but treat her like a good friend and revaluate every month or two. Realize that full recovery will take a couple of years if not more, so a week or a month is a very small time slice.

You are doing better than you realize and you are where you should be. At about 6 months the BS often really questions the wisdom of staying and shows anger. That is when the WS starts to make enough progress that the BS realizes that recovery is possible sooooooo, the logical question is "if it is possible do I want it?"

When you get there, step back and decide about a month from then. You know the old saying if something traumatic happens in your life don't make any major decisions for a year. Well, this was like a death in the family, it takes a long time for you to heal or her to heal.

You are doing well, hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

JL,--
it is funny you should say that about the BS questioning if they want to stay.i was thinking tonight on the way home of starting a thread about wondering if it is typical for the BS to question if they still love thier WS? that is how i am feeling now.
so am i where i need to step back and try to evaluate what i want?
should i tell her i am starting to wonder if I love her?
should i tell her that i realize i can live without her?
that i want her, but don't necessarily need her?

i honest to god want her and want the M to work out, but i feel like i can't do it alone.

we have MC monday, and i am wondering what i should say.
when i read thru this, i know i still love her, i just don't know how long i can live with the pain of her indecision.
thanks for your input,
arjdad

Betrayed man,-

when your wife found out you spoke with an attorney and it scared her, didit scare her in a way to push her away? or in a way that made her realize what she was doing? did it make her want to work harder on saving the M?

it sounds like you and i have a lot of simularities.[unfortunately]. i don't think my wife would ever initiate a divorce either, and i REALLY don't want to, but like you said, i can't/won't go on unloved forever.
thanks for your input, and good luck in your sitch,
arjdad

arj,

No, it did not make her mad, it made her realize that I will evaluate other options. It did not push her away, at least not any further away. Having said that, the attorney I talked to was very honest with me, he recommended that I try to work it out (he was a Navy lawyer and advice is free). He told me I will get creamed in a divorce, even though W has said she doesn't want my money, I am certain that if faced with a life w/o my income, she will make a run at my pension. W also knows what I stand to lose compared to her, and she knows she is in the driver's seat. That is why she was so taken aback that I saw an attorney, I was willing to move forward with my life w/o her even though i had more to lose. Was a reality check.

About 8 weeks ago, after finding out another piece to the puzzle which she lied to me about repeatedly, I throw a suitcase on the bed and told her to leave. Tears formed, and she said, I thought we were doing better?! In other words, when the reality of the situation hits my W, it scares her. She can't say ILY to me, but I know she is afraid to move on as I do so much for her.

I will try MC when we get back to the states, can't do it here. But, as time moves fwd, I get like you and think about giving up. Very personal decision.

Best of luck to you, sucks to be us.