Like everybody in this sitch, I'm worn to a nub by everything. A good friend of mine, a half a world away, has offered to take us in for a couple of weeks. Our DDs are really good friends. She lives on a beach in wine country. The airfares are really good. As I look out my window at the cold gray landscape, I'm ready to pack it in.

What do you think? Is it wise to leave while I'm in the middle of Plan A? To leave while everything is so unsettled? My DD and I are ready to bailout on school, scouts, and just about everything else. On the plus side, I'll come back refreshed and perhaps better able to deal with the crap. Money is a concern but it would be good to have a splurge if I have to start a new life. And its good to see friends.

Advice?

Ok, It's me, your favorite MB friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How do you think that this would fit into YOUR PLAN at this point?

Realistically speaking, your WH basically came right out and informed you that he is addicted to the OW.

When you leave for an extended vacation what will he do? Will it be time for him to take an extended vacation?

What will he rationalize this to mean?

What will the OW tell him that it means?

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Hi Car.....uh, I mean grapegirl.Heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

After much careful thought and consideration,my feeling is you should go and have a good time.Why should you put your life on hold after all you have been through with your WH?

Some might argue that it's a bad time when being in this stage but there is a difference between getting some much needed R&R than going away to be with some homerecker.Your WH may take this in many different ways but I would just calmly explain that it would do you some good to see old friends and that you will return and are still looking forward(or whatever you want ot say)to working on your marriage.

It also may just plant that seed in your WH's mind that yes,my BW does have a life outside of me/marriage and I might lose her,etc.You are not sitting around pining away for your WH and giving up opportunities that don't come along that often.

I don't know where your friend lives but I lived in California for 9 years,30 minutes away from Napa/Sonoma and it was SOOO beautiful! I say go and have a great time.Watch the spending though....lol

O

grapegirl...
I say GO and have lots of FUN! It really does help to get away sometimes. I just got back from tubing in NC with my family and it really helps. We had such a good time and now I have lots of new memories with my son.
Go and enjoy!!!!

double post

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: TreeReich ]</small>

Do you guys know what happened at her last MC session and that she just really started PLAN A?

I think it would be fun. However, IMO, put this would put this WS deeper into the A.

The OW lives 6 hrs. away. He will have lots of time to visit with her.

I really think she needs to think about herself right now. No matter if she goes away for a few days or stays there.....he's still involved with the OW.
I think she needs to have some fun of her own and get away from all of this!!!
Sorry mimi...just my opinion.

I've been telling myself to steer away from GRAPE GIRL but her WH sounds so much like mine was. He craves ATTENTION and ADMIRATION. This OW is ready and willing to provide. The conditions I created for my FWH's A was not being attentive to these needs. I addressed that during MY PLAN A. OW would tell him that I didn't care about him and didn't give him priority and that I only cared about myself and my friends. That's why I have this opinion regarding GRAPE.

I'm just a strong believer in following the system. STRONG PLAN A followed by PLAN B.Such a vacation would be a great idea during PLAN B.

This does not fit with the MB System, IMHO.

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

grape,

First of all this post isn't directed at all to mimi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Just a friendly debate here ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have been following your posts from the get go and in my opinion,if you were in recovery,taking a two week vacation might not be appropriate at the time since you would both be very vulnerable and it's a tricky time.

But right now you are trying to meet and provide needs to your WH who is admittedly still very conflicted about giving up the homewrecking OW so if he wants to be in contact with her,he will no matter what YOU do.That is true of all of them.There isn't anything wrong with taking some time for yourself and still calling and/or e-mailing your WH to tell him that you are thinking of him,miss him and discuss your days,etc.It should not be one sided here.WH gets to bail out on activities planned for the family/kids or even MC when he's cranky and grape gets to have NO life? Where does Steve say that a BS cannot ever go anywhere on vacation during this time?

You cannot make a WS stay committed grape.No matter what you do they will either find ways around honesty to be in touch or they will work at this themselves alone but we are not their guards.You do not have to be a prisoner at home while your WH waffles all around coming and going as his WS mind sees fit.

But,I can also see mimi's point.You have to ask yourself some Q's: if you think you are making any progress,can the vacation offer take a raincheck for later on in a few months,can it be a week instead of 2,how do YOU feel about this?

O

I agree with Octobergirl.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm just a strong believer in following the system. STRONG PLAN A followed by PLAN B.Such a vacation would be a great idea during PLAN B.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How does this vacation help with her PLAN A? This is the question that I'm sure that Steve would ask at this point. He would say "STICK WITH YOUR PLAN".

This is a fight for her marriage. Not a time for RR. How will this help? This will set her back.

I agree that PLAN A is not about getting him to stop the A or commit to the marriage. PLAN A is about helping him to see that GRAPE is a loving alternative to the OW especially when he is alone with the OW during PLAN B. When he is in PLAN B, it is essential that he is left with positive memories of PLAN A. It will not be good for him to recall PLAN A as a time when she left and went away.

Still JMHO.

Oi! I'm glad I asked. The conflicting opinions mirror my own views. I am so tired it's hard to keep any perspective. I wouldn't leave until after the middle of February. It's a long trip, so it would have to be at least 2 weeks. DS would probably stay home. I'd take DD out of school to go.

First, there's the stay home and work it out option. Some days, I feel like a hostage in my own house. Hostage to WH's whims. I know Plan A takes time. Some say 2 weeks, some say 6 months. I Plan A-ed while he was in Singapore to no avail. Everything good I tried to do in the last week has been thrown back at me. I know, know. Plan A harder. I may start another thread on this. WH sees as much of OW as he wants to anyway.

Then, there's the go option. It's a dream trip to visit someone I really like in a place I've always wanted to go. I love to travel but haven't had a decent vacation for well over a year.(That hasn't happened for a long time.)Basically, I've been a single parent since last April. In the beginning, WH was always at work and unavailable. Then he was out of the country. Then he was having an A. I feel worn down and beaten up. I need to refresh somehow. I don't feel like I have much to look forward to.

Right now the idea of going to a warm, green place to visit people who care makes me melt. To sit on a beach. To be fussed over. No cooking unless I want to. No cleaning. No chance of running into the evil couple. New places and new things. I'd like to be cared for for a while. I read a quote once where the writer said that moms/givers/BS are like central warehouses. They are always giving things out. But if you don't bring anything in, how can you give out?

In our marriage, my WH has always admired my sense of adventure. I've often taken the opportunity to go to nice places. Sometimes he choose to accompany me, sometime not. This basic trip had originally been planned for last summer. Then WH's business trip was moved out and our trip cancelled.

Mimi, OG, TR, I appreciate your input. I know you don't think I listen well, but I do. Really. I'm sorry, I've been sick again for over a week and could just crawl into bed right now. Most of this probably doesn't make any sense.

Don't apologize grape.

Listen,only you can decide what to do at this stage.If you have been acting as a "single parent" for close to a year without a break and your WH does what he pleases,well,that is why I suggest taking a small break for yourself and your DD.This may sound a bit harsh but so what if your WH thinks that your abandoning him.We all know that WS's expect you to have no life,sit around the house doing for them and waiting for them while they run off to see the OP's and call,e-mail,TM and cell phone them whenever they wish.So you may not have done a stellar Plan A for months and months yet.It is great if you CAN do it but realistically it doesn't always work.

I am not saying don't try but we are talking about a small fraction of your time where it would be good for you to get some relaxation and some pampering from a good friend.The WS will think you are "abandoning" them even if you go to the store without their approval. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And they almost never think you are doing anything right and are to be blamed for everything wrong.It is a loving alternative to be home and be around for your WH but if he isn't going to be around when you are around and instead sees OW,what's the point?

Anyway,again it's up to you.Maybe ask your counselor for her/his opinion too.I just would not like to see you feel guilted into missing an opportunity to feel some good in your life because somehow two weeks is going to make or break recovery chances.It's not like you just found out about the A last week.That would be a different story.

Just take more time to mull it over.Good luck with whatever you decide.

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Grape:

I really understand you wanting to get away. I don't think that you have anything to feel guilty about. You are being disrespected and mistreated by your WH and it's normal and expected for you to want to get away.

You also seem to want to reconcile with him. There are perhaps other ways that you can get a respite from this other than going away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This may sound a bit harsh but so what if your WH thinks that your abandoning him.We all know that WS's expect you to have no life,sit around the house doing for them and waiting for them while they run off to see the OP's and call,e-mail,TM and cell phone them whenever they wish.So you may not have done a stellar Plan A for months and months yet.It is great if you CAN do it but realistically it doesn't always work.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">O GIRL, this is not directed at you. This is my attempt to help GRAPE. She has seemed somewhat of a nonbeliever in MB. I really don't feel like its helpful to discourage her from use of these principles. You say that PLAN A doesn't always work. Of course it doesn't. PLAN A usually needs to be followed by PLAN B. This system does work. It has worked for many folks. Check out the RECOVERY BOARD.

I don't completely agree with your take on WHs, O GIRL. They want any justification to continue with their A. That means that they want to believe that The BW does not care about them. WHs want to make the WW into a bad person even to the point of rewriting history such as "I never loved you", etc. I don't think my FWH cared what I was doing when he was with the OW, really. He loved being with her. It didn't matter whether I was calling his cellphone or not. What matters is what you are like when he is with you. My point is that your WH needs to have the opportunity to be with you during PLAN A, going on your dates as you call them. Vacations will be great for you during PLAN B.

Again, JMHO.

Go have a nice time. Make sure your daughter c/b off from school and take some homework. Let the school know of the problem and they may even give you some slack. She can do some history writing about the gold country, whatever..... you write about the casinos. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I went on a cruise just before enacting plan B. That was envigorating for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The decision and the consquences are yours. Long as you feel comfortable with it, then you are ready to decide.

Have fun!

L.

Minor threadjack grape(sorry).

mimi,

Just a few more thoughts and then I am calling it quits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am in no way discouraging grape from her plans.I have been advocating them to everyone the whole time I have been here.I am well aware of who these plans have helped and who is on the recovery board even though I am not.You are talking to the choir here.I know what WS's think,I understand that they think we don't care and look for any opportunity to solidify that in their minds,truth or not.The plans are not written in stone though and sometimes adjustments have to be made.Our marriages are not cookie cutter types where everyone's situation at home is the same.Most of us do try our best when we finally understand the concepts.

My WH complained to me that I didn't make him enough cups of coffee while he was working.This was after I had already been making him several and was trying my best to Plan A.For some reason he focused on this issue as the reason I wasn't really going to change and be a "better wife".Now,this is what he thought.Of course I disagreed.It got to the point where I started making a list of what HIS changes were during our brief but second false recovery and I had MY side of the list.It is no surprise that I was doing all the changing and my WH only wanted to come back home and keep the status quo,essentially with me being the "maid".You can give and give and give and sometimes it just doesn't make whole heck of a lot of difference.

grape is still capable of doing as much as she can now,before,the trip, with the Plan A and meeting needs and even after the trip.Also,during,when e-mails,phone calls and TM's can also be important.If they were not,I don't think we would be hearing about it so much as a means for WS's to be in touch and get "fixes" from their OP if they aren't physically there.

This trip was planned last summer so it's not some surprise take off all of sudden.And after rereading grapes second post(including her previous Plan A attempts),I feel that she needs a break.It's not healthy to keep up this pace and not have some rest.Driving herself to the brink of exhaustion and dispair isn't going to help her WH either.And we all know how exhausting this is as a BS.

I would have loved the chance to go somewhere and get a refreshing view on things and a rest from the extreme turmoil of being a BW.But,I had two kids to take care of and no one was offering me a trip like that.I hung around the home,trying to fulfill my WH's needs while he went out to the local bar to call the homewrecker while I put the kids to bed at night and then spend most of his days on the computer yahooing this person too while I tried to maintain some sort of "normal" family life for the children,all the while dying inside.Not fair.

Ok,I'm done.Good luck grape.

O