Your words are humbling even though you are on the other side of the fence to me.

I believe I have forgiveness and love in my heart but up to now, neither have been sought by my WH. So he continues to be very wayward. I once said to Anyname that I actually admired her husband. From the moment he was 'found out' he did everything right. The OW was dropped like a hot cake and he poured his energy back into his marriage. So she has had a chance to forgive him. Some of us never got the opportunity and with the passage of time I feel that I may get to a point of forgiveness but am not sure I want to share my life with him again.

Jelly, I think that in the end nobody gives a damn about what you did apart from your husband. Parents, children and true friends will just be delighted that you worked it out and remained together. Others who might have judged you at the time of your A will just forget and move onto the next bit of gossip.

Can I join the club for Former Shop Lifters? Bath cubes in Woolworths when I was 11. TT

KY...
Nice post!
I'm happy for you. I think as long as your husband has forgiven you and you have forgiven yourself and you are still happily married then it's nobody'a business.
I wish my WH felt like you do.....we would have celebrated our 15th anniv. together.

Jelly, you already know what I think. I am such an idiot I can't remember who's what. And it doesn't matter to me. As I have said before, you all are my new friends. I didn't know you then, so it doesn't matter. That was then, this is now.

I can't tell you how great an influence your humor has had on me. It is what has kept me on MB. Being on MB has saved me from myself.

I told IB in our last "discussion" (ouch!) that I was not a perfect person and neither was he. I have made mistakes and recovered from them, and now he has made a mistake. A mistake that can be corrected. I told him that we can get past this, and that is what it will be -- a mistake that is in the past. He hasn't bought into that idea, yet, but I'm still trying.

If I truly believe what I say I believe, and what I teach in Sunday School, and profess to others, and try to practice in daily life, then forgiveness is a requirement. And when it's forgiven, it's not there any more. I am eagerly waiting for that, so that when forgiveness takes place, some or all of the pain will end. I look forward to the end of the pain. And that is what has happened for you and ST. Forgiveness = end of pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Much Love - Starz

Dear Kyellow, and other MB friends,

In my experience in work with emotional energy I have the following remark.

There is an uneasy, sometimes sickening energy that surrounds anyone who holds on to selfishness, self pity, hate or fear. They suck in energy, draining others sometimes. This can be the selfish feelings of an WS or the unforgiving, spiteful feelings of a BS - whatever.

On the other hand there is an explosion of joy and strong positive energy that ripples through the cosmos whenever someone decides to stand up and say: no more! to his or her own negative patterns.

At that moment, when this decision is firm and made on a very personal level (not to please others, not to be "acceptable", but because the person really understands the need for change) the energy pattern changes. Maybe over time, sometimes in an instant, but the old negative energy disappears. That part of the personality that kept generating the negativity is changed, has disappeared. It no longer exists.

To me this energetic level is the only thing that matters. What happened in the past is unimportant when a change is so profound.
And when a person does his or her utmost to make this change happen, he or she grows stronger and wiser.

Maybe forgiving yourself, or realising that there is nothing left to forgive, is the last and ultimate step in this process. We cannot control the thoughts and opinions of others - it's up to them to grow and let go of negativity.

Sorry if I'm a bit serious here my dear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . These feelings are very profound for me. One of the most beautiful and moving things in a movie, for example, is when someone realises that she or he is doing the wrong thing and stands up and says... no more.


((((kyellow))))

Kyellow,

Your post just about brought tears to my eyes because it is such a beautiful place that you have gotten too...for you.

Happy for you.

It is sometimes difficult to keep the label off of my H...most of the time it's off but sometimes I still have a tendency to still define him by the label. When I hear 'the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior'....'a leopard doesn't change his spots'...I keep praying that my H and the other FWS's here are exceptions to those sayings. That our recovery is real and we will live out the rest of our lives without having adultery play any further role. It's been 2 yrs. since the last A...it takes time to heal.

I don't believe my H defines himself that way any longer. He has done all he can to assure me of his commitment to our marriage and fidelity.

It helps that FWS's post here. It helps both the WS, FWS, as well as the BS's. Thanks.

Jelly, what a great place you are in! Hooray for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It can be draining sometimes to put the FWS hat on for this board but REAL LIFE is where we live and willingly putting on the FWS hat here is a GIFT to those who need encouragement. You have been a GIVER here and you deserve every happiness.

I'm glad you posted this, it may be a help to some of the more "stuck" BS to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that change is possible and that there is HOPE for the future. Congrats on your personal recovery and thanks for sharing it with us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

Jelly, I can only echo what Weaver (and everyone) else has said.

Your e-mails to me off the board got me through some very dark days.

Love ya, hon.

Jen

I'm sorry all,

I'm not buying it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't mean that as a pointed remark. I don't mean it to be hurtful. I don't wish pain on anyone.

However, lables or not, we can't ignore our past. I've got a huge list of things I regret. Things I wish I didn't do. Those things about me that I hate. DO define who I am.
If a person has an affair. They did it. They are responsible for it, and the damage it caused their family. They need to stand up and face that. FOR LIFE!!!!! It does define who they are.
They may become a million times better person because of it.
A former drug addict can't ever touch drugs (not that anyone should). A former alcoholic can't drink. That doesn't make them bad people today.
But it does define who that are today.
What about a former murderer? (see my point)

I'm sure there are people whose marriages became much better bacause of an affair. That doesn't make it okay.

I just don't think we (BS, WS, FWS) can ever discard the lable. It has become part of the puzzle that is our lives.

The telling criteria:
Can you hold your head up!? Know who you are, where you've been. Are you proud of yourself today.
What does Bob Pure sig line say? something to that affect.

Just my opinion. I sincerly don't wish to offend any FWS. Nor question their character.


DD

It is ok DD. You did not offend me, coming from where you are I understand perfectly. For me having been on both sides of this mess, I can tell you that my H's infidelities do NOT define the man he is or is becoming. We are not talking about not regretting mistakes, we are talking about it not defining the people we have become. I am FWW with a capitol F as some else on this board put it. Hugs to you DD. You are doing ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No offense taken DD and your viewpoint is completely understandable given where you're at right now. For some of us the A is just ancient history in an everyday life. It's a nice place to be and hopefully someday you'll be able to say the same. You know that we're all rooting for you and your wife to be able to! KB

OK - get out your 2x4's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes; my point is coming from my experience so I urge you to at least consider this:

There is an undisputable fact of life that can never be altered: If we "do" an action, any action, then it is absolute fact that we have the capability to do the same action again! I am not saying that we will - I am saying that there is proof that we may! My WXW did it twice and believe me; after the first time, she swore on a stack of bibles that she would never, ever do it again. And I believed her. (And in her!) She "had learned her lesson" and so on and so on. It took 15 years; but she did it again; under very similar circumstances. In fact, it was nearly an exact repeat.

This is why everyone participating in AA announces to all that they are an alcoholic! They may not have touched a drop in 30 years; but they still announce that they are an alcoholic!

The reason for this is simple. Our mind is programmed to lessen the severity of behavior as time passes. That is the very premise that MB philosophy is built on. (Stay together with WS after the A; NC w/OP forever and allow time and action to "heal and make better".)

kyellow; it is my belief that by attempting to minimize the A and all that was impacted by it; you might be setting yourself up for a repeat! I recognize the conviction that you have at this moment! I've lived it. It is my absolute belief that if WXW and I had agreed to discuss that part of her/our past occasionally and w/o judgment, that WXW would not have had this A and we would still be a family.

While MB principles clearly state that there had to be problems in the M for A to happen; I believe that there are other circumstances that can cause A's to happen as well. (Personality type, chemical imbalance, personal history, self esteem, etc.) So my message is to be very careful in attempting to "erase" the A. As with all of the examples you used; there is historical proof that you have the ability to have another A! Because you had one proves this.

Hope I didn't burst anyones bubble - that was not my intent. Just be careful in thinking this way. It may be better to occasionally talk about it, with love and respect! Repeats hurt - worse than the first!

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am a FBS and my wife is a FWW. Nothing that either of will do in the future will or can change these facts.

These labels are to help us and understand our stories for these boards but these lables are not intended to be worn on our shirts or on signs hung around our necks.

There are no winners in these affairs, only survivors. If it works for those who want to erase the fact and the label from themselves, it doesn't change anyone else's situation. We all must deal with our past and our pain the best way we can and I say whatever works for each of us is fine.

It is crucial that we move forward but so many on these boards are 1, 2, or 3 years post D-Day and they still feel the need to talk about their lives and experiences. I guess we can deny the facts or even hide them but we can never escape our own indivual experiences, labels or not.

TooSoon

An affair is an ADDICTION. I admire the desire to claim that you have conquered and defeated the addiction and put in your past but it will always follow you.

A former alcoholic is a proud person but an alcoholic nonetheless.
A former drug addict is a proud person...
A former sex addict is a proud person...
A former WW/WH is a proud person...

Claim it and be proud that you have conquered it, but never deny it or your addiction will take hold of you again one day.

No one wants to wear a scarlet letter but we all do for one reason or another. I don't think anyone here can claim sainthood...not even BS's. Never hold fast that you are immune to the power of an addiction.

Originally posted by TooSoon:

It is crucial that we move forward but so many on these boards are 1, 2, or 3 years post D-Day and they still feel the need to talk about their lives and experiences. I guess we can deny the facts or even hide them but we can never escape our own indivual experiences, labels or not.

You are making an general assumption here, correct? Personally, I have zero desire to talk about my experience on this board but because it may be helpful to another I occasionally do. It has NO power over my marriage and there is no hiding or denying involved. Sometimes people are just around to help ya know? KB

There is something within you that feels the need to be on these boards, as I do. I too share information to try and help others get through their difficult time, but it helps me too. I suspect the people that spend hundreds of hours a month on these boards feel the same way. The people on these boards understand the BS's and the WS's and that is why we are all here.

If there is another reason, I would love for you to share it.

TooSoon

...And some BS wonder why most FWS stay in I'ville these days.....

KY, I aspire not to being a FBH and Squid a FWW, but the names GOD gave us : Husband and Wife as a summation of all the experiences we overcame together for BETTER and WORSE.

{{{KY}}}

<small>[ January 22, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> ...And some BS wonder why most FWS stay in I'ville these days.....

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take that to mean that a FWS would rather be called an "Idiot"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have not read visited that thread since its first day...and I assumed that it was the gathering place for the WS.

I guess someone will correct me if I am wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take that to mean that a FWS would rather be called an "Idiot"?

I have not read visited that thread since its first day...and I assumed that it was the gathering place for the WS.

I guess someone will correct me if I am wrong. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok--You're wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

(All "labels" are in I-ville with both genders "attached.")

Committed if you read the thread you would know Idiotville consists of both FBS and FWS and we drop the labels to simply support each other. Aside from the silliness, there is a lot of MB'ing going on there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithful follower:
<strong> Committed if you read the thread you would know Idiotville consists of both FBS and FWS and we drop the labels to simply support each other. Aside from the silliness, there is a lot of MB'ing going on there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess the use of the word "idiot" is used to describe the silliness then?

I am not being smart, I was just trying to figure out the use of that word in the name.

Thanks for the clarification.

committed