</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Seems to me you are, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then you are mistaken.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not need your forgiveness BA, I have not done you wrong.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree.

Thanks for responding. I realize this thread was more of a proclaimation than a discussion thread but who could resist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm happy for you in your successful recovery.

Congratulations, Jelly!

This is a monumental realization on your part. It took me a long time to get there, but I'm pleased to say, like you, I can hold my head up and be proud of who I am these days.

I think that it's only after we get to the point where we realize that we have the capability of being more than our "former" selves, that we can truly loves ourselves again.

Only after this can we find the strength to earn back the respect of those important to us.

Only after this can we see the true impact of all that has happened.

Only after this can we learn to love our spouses again in the way they deserve to be loved.

It's never about forgetting how we got to where we are. You and I know that's impossible to do. But you've come to realize that we don't have to live in that shadow anymore.

It doesn't mean we deny what happened or avoid responsibility for the consequences. It DOES mean that we acknowledge what we have done and decide to live with honesty and integrity from now on.

It's about learning to trust ourselves. You and I can now tell our spouses we LOVE them and KNOW that it's true...we don't have to second guess ourselves.

It's about acknowledging and understanding our vulnerabilities rather than denying they exist. We take action to protect ourselves from those things.

It's about understanding that there will always be those who want to define us in terms of past actions and extending them grace. After all, they do not owe us their forgiveness and understanding.

It's ALL about understanding that we have the CHOICE to not be defined by what we once were.

I'm happy for you, KY. Forgiving yourself is a wonderful thing.

Peace be with you,

Low

Hey KY:

Your thread went from a relatively innocent question about opinions directly to judgmentalism (is that a word) in no time. I did not and never intended to judge. However if you took my input as being judgmental; I apologize - not my intent!

My point is this: In the event that a relative or friend of yours finds themselves in the same position that you were; you may be able to help them because you've lived it. (Just as you may offer advice for something else that you've experienced.) However; if your action has been discarded, covered over, etc. then the person you may be able to help will never know that you could be their savior. (Keep in mind how well WS's hide actions of infidelity. You may likely not know it's going on.) If the wayward person knows that you've been down this road, they may reach out to you in moments of sanity for guidance. There is no better-equipped person to help another than one who has traveled the same road!

For the record: I am happy that you've recovered and hope that you and H never experience this again. Kudos to your H as well. He's a good man! Good Luck!

FR

Finally for the rest of you who took time and energy to post, my responses.

Ba - This is exactly the attitude of the FWS. "Oh it's not that bad...it's nothing I can't control in the future."

This is what I'm shedding. The stereotype.

Committed - Just because the term is used is not indicative of not being forgiven....it's indicative of it having not been "forgotten".

Exactly! Some just aren't getting it. Yeah, where is ML. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She knows some of my story, she has read some of my post. I think she would get this. I will never forget, my darling H will never forget, but he will not, I will not, forever see myself as a adulteress.

Ark said, I don't think that is the attitude of former wayward spouse....in true recovery....and those that have done the hard hard work of repair surely deserve to be set free from that person whom they no longer are...

Ark gets it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BS, do you forever want to "feel" like the BS, or do you just want to be a person. I'm no longer "feeling" the FWS thing, I'm just not. I have correct my wrong, I have and still am facing the pain and consequences of my decision, God does not want me to carry my burden, Jesus has paid for my sin, I don't have to. That does not minimize my sin in the least bit, it just frees myself from it. God has blessed me.

Tiggy, You have brought me to my next step, I am ditching the F for and R, because that is what I am, that is what I am saying I AM a RECOVERED WAYWARD SPOUSE. Had I said that right off, do you think the thread would have went any better????

Fish - I'm a former shoplifter, I'm a former thug, I'm a former liar, I'm a former gossip, I'm a former and present sinner and so on.

Should I fear you? Should I not trust you, should I watch my back when you are around??? Or are you a different person now, have you learnt from your past sins??? Or should I always look at you as all of those. I'm saying, don't see me as a WS, FWS, see me as the woman I am.

ONCEAKNIGHT, I deny nothing, but I have learned much and changed much, and I'm having a wonderful recovery.

I myself firmly believe that it is possible to turn your back to a previous way of life and to redefine yourself. If that is done sincerely, that choice will certainly include taking ownership of previous choices and actions. I am certain that KY does so!
FRANK - You get it too. Yeah!!!!!!!!! Thank you.

LowOrbit. We have both visited another thread recently, which basically moved me to post this one. I admired you from afar on that one, but will tell you now, you really helped me, just a few days later I was able to post this, because of something I felt from reading your post. ((((LOW))))

Fish - once again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your words 6 months ago, and the others who are not understanding me, or disagreeing with me, would have tore me up inside. They now have no power over me, isn't that GREAT??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I use to be so weak Fish, I use to put all my worth in others hands, I'm no longer doing that. Thank you for being happy for me. I want all FWS to feel this, I want them to learn how to recover, I want all BS to learn how to forgive, I want us all singing Koombia (sp) around the campfire, okay, maybe that is a bit much, but I do want to help people. I do want people to learn from my mistake, I just no longer will be affected by peoples unnecessary out of line judgments of a FWS, in real life and on MB. Fish, best wishes to you.

This is me, quoting myself, see how I am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Me blue in the face now, but still smiling - PEOPLE, if you asked God, Is Jelly- Kyellow, an adulterous, what would he say?????? I'm guessing he would say, She is my child, and I love her. THIS IS MY POINT!!!!!

I feel great, for those of you who understood me, thank you, for those of you who didn't, thank you too.

RWS - ky - Jelly

(((((KY))))))

Squeezes m'dear! You've been a light in the fog.

- Kimmy

{{{Jelly}}} love you, Jelly. Great thread.

Hey Jelly Bling -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BS, do you forever want to "feel" like the BS, or do you just want to be a person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...And that was MY point, exactly!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF

kyellow4... I hope that someday I can be where you are now. I'm still wearing the FWW nametag and have been struggling a bit with everything that goes with it... the withdrawal, the guilt, the self-doubts, and the wondering if (hoping that) I can become someone I can be proud of and that my H will still want to be with.

And kudos to your H for helping your thru this.

Kimmy, Faith I love both, thanks for the support.

RIF - It is a very healthy place.

GBH - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope that someday I can be where you are now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about I will be, and I will strive hard everyday to get there. I will support you on your journey. You can do this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well said KY!!! (and, no, you don't have to respond to this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> - I've already read that you are blue in the face - for Heaven's sake, Girl!!! Take a breath already!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Just wanted to add my own little penny's worth here, and tell ya that I love you more for who you will be tomorrow, not what you were yesterday, or even who you are today, but what you will be with the knowledge you now hold. Today is great...but I know the author of tomorrow, and what an awesome tomorrow it will be!!!

And, for the fun of it another cent's worth - this was said regarding the "former" term:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just because the term is used is not indicative of not being forgiven....it's indicative of it having not been "forgotten".


They don't travel hand in hand IMHO.

You can forgive without forgetting...and it doesn't mean that it isn't true forgiveness.

And, You can forgive WITHOUT forgetting.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, I say - THANK YOU JESUS that you do not view forgiveness in the same way!! Thank you Jesus that when you forgive our sins, you throw them into the Sea of Forgetfulness, never again to be thrown in our face by the Father!!! And, finally thank you Jesus, that you allowed yourself to be persecuted for our sin, when you had none, and you love us regardless of the pain we have caused you!

I will also say that I feel hanging on to the titles REGARDLESS of the lessons learned CAN in some ways be damaging...What about the spouse who has been betrayed, and goes through divorce - whether willingly, or through force - and remarries, while still clinging to that "Former Betrayed Spouse" title...

What does that say to the spouse that is present, that has not done anything to harm this relationship? How about the way the "FBS" views their current relationship? YES, most definitely, we should be aware of our surroundings at all times, and we should be most concerned with applying all the principles we are learning on MB with all of our relationships, but there is a point, and anyone who marries a "FBS" will see it, where that "FBS" if they are hanging on to that title, is viewing their current relationship as their previous relationship. And, do you not think that carrying that title might not in some way affect the psychie of the person holding it? Can it not ever move them to the point of feeling that "Well, I am a FBS, and things aren't going right in this relationship..." go ahead fill in the blanks with whatever...including an affair.

I can tell you that holding on to titles forever is not always: a good thing, a healthy thing, nor a helpful thing. I pray you all learn to forget the pains associated with your affair - no matter which character you played -

Allow me please to introduce you to my M...now a healthy M...but, my S is the person I described in the above scenario...he WAS a BS...not by me, but by a former S - is he currently a "Former Husband" because he was married before? No, he is a Husband because he is married now. Would it have been fair for me to judge him in the same light I held on my former, abusive H? no, yet he held me in the same light as his former WW...know what - he kept the title of FBS, and at every little instance, it was brought to my attention that he was a FBS - guess what - I DIDN'T want to hear about it, nor did I want him to be viewed in that light. Do I now look at him as a FWS, because he cheated on me? NO...why? for the same reason - I don't want him to be viewed in that light - I want people to see him for what he is, what he will be, not what he was.

OK, so you were this or that...that does not define who you are today...it's an ingredient that got you to the place you are now, but it does not define you...or at least I don't want it defining me...I want words like kind (I am today, by the grace of God, I will be tomorrow...but I was not in some distant yesterdays - I was cold and had an angry spirit that would make you think I was the devil's sister); forgiving - not the kind that throws it in your face all the time "Well, I forgive you even though you did so-n-so, it'll be alright" - the very tone of those words says "I still want you to be my friend, but I want you to pay for what you did to me" - how about the line on "Pretty Woman" when Richard Geer tells Julia Roberts "I've never treated you like a prostitue" and she whispers "you just did" - 'nuff said. I also hope people will define me as funny, courageous, loving, supportive, friend, and most importantly Christ-like. That's how I want to be defined...not by the Indian, Irish, Scottish, American blood that runs through my veins; nor as the hateful, spiteful, *****y attitude(d), foul-mouthed woman I once was; but as a person who emanates Christ-like behaviors and love.

(Merriam-Webster says: Define means: to determine or identify the essential qualities or meaning of) And, for me personally, the “a” WILL NOT determine or identify my essential qualities for the rest of my life…I have learned a lesson, now I am moving on, not to be always seen as a “F” anything related to this time in my life…I will continue to work on me and my M…but I refuse to allow this to “define” me!!!

The bean does not define chocolate...it's what’s done with the bean…it’s the texture, and the taste that define it.


And, finally:
This was originally posted by Weaver: Sidenote: Hi Weaver – I’ve missed you and still hoping you’ll post some pics of snow for me!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And the same goes for a few other FWS's on I'ville who are equally as needed and wanted but from their own shame hold back on the board.
~end quote...

I have no shame that holds me from posting on the rest of the board…what I do have is…well, quite frankly I don’t know how to put it into words (SHOCK!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I have posted to other threads, and am usually ignored…I know I do not have the wisdom of some of the “old timers” but God gives those who ask an amount of wisdom, and for the record, there’s not a thread I post on that I don’t pray about first. But, you can only post so many times to different people, and feel that your advice/opinion was ignored, and thus does not matter, nor does it carry with it enough weight to hold it there…thus, I post where I feel I can be of the most help…and, if it’s with a bunch of self-proclaimed idiots, then so be it…maybe that’s why God sent me here!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

OK, here’s the real “and finally”…

I believe that God has intentions of many of us not forgetting anything we’ve gone through, whether it’s an A, or abuse of some kind, or an addiction…but I also believe that if we choose to call ourselves former whatevers, it should be done at the unctioning (sp?) of the Holy Spirit, and not because some body feels it should. God allows, and asks some people to broadcast their former sins of adultery, drug/alcohol addiction, fornication, murder, abortion, theft, and so on, as a testimony to others, but there are many more who are asked and told! by God to forget it and move on, because it would not be viewed the way He needs/wants it to be were they to profess their sins to others. Jesus died on the cross, the veil was rent in two from top to bottom, he rose again, and is now at the right hand of the Father, awaiting the call to retrieve His bride...it is no longer necessary for me to repent of my sins to any man, nor is it necessary for me to wear a title because of my sins...FORGIVEN is the only title I have/need to wear. And, at an arresting of the Spirit, I will conclude my post here.

Much love to ALL the MBrs who are here, have been here, and will be tomorrow…there is much to be learned on this site about all areas of our lives, not just the A-end of it. May you all one day be able to define yourselves as wife, husband, friend, and so-on without a "former" attached to it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lovingly, sincerely, and prayerfully,
LemonDash

Lemon (as I wipe of the tears)that was lovely. You know you just gave me yet another sig line don't you?

The bean does not define chocolate...it's what’s done with the bean…it’s the texture, and the taste that define it.

Love ya, Lemon dash

YL, you are a gem, always insightful and a true inspiration.

I love this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And, I say - THANK YOU JESUS that you do not view forgiveness in the same way!! Thank you Jesus that when you forgive our sins, you throw them into the Sea of Forgetfulness, never again to be thrown in our face by the Father!!! And, finally thank you Jesus, that you allowed yourself to be persecuted for our sin, when you had none, and you love us regardless of the pain we have caused you!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RWW, KY

KY ... this doesn't really "fit" ... but in a way it does. Making labels.

My H introduces me (sometimes) like this:

This is *Pep*. She is my first wife.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He's been doing this for 24 years.

Pep (wife #1)

<small>[ January 24, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Doesn't his second wife get mad??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

YL -

Much love to you too! Thank you for always lifting us up.

weaver
(always the bridesmaid, never the bride) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


note- but I'm armed now with my MB principles, and got me a date with an eHarmony kind of guy (and yes he is bringing his original divorce decree with him to the coffee shop) And I will still do the PI thing... if I like him enough.

Like one of the other "recovered singles" on MB said, they don't stand a chance now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> woooohoooo

Doesn't his second wife get mad??? [Wink]

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

See what I mean?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See what I mean?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> That's it, I'm surfing for the Chinese language right now, so I can decode your words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

How about we both try to learn Cherokee. I would just love to get dressed up in one of those white buckskin dresses, go to a POW WOW and start talking Cherokee.

You probably think I am kidding but I'm not. I watched "Where the Rivers Run North" about 25 times and I still can't understand what that indian girl (Bangor) is saying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

KY, I am going to have to disconnect my internet to get off of this board for awhile. I need to learn balance. I think I am an addict or something. But I have your email, and will send a pic soon. I'll try to get some snow in there and you can share it with YL okay?

KY,

I read your initial post with great interest. It disturbs me in certain regards. I hope you will help me clarify some observations and some questions. I haven’t spent spend much time on MB lately, so I’m coming in late on your thread, as it decorrelates even. Thanx, in advance.

Your analogies are nice but IMO incomplete. You are indeed entitled to see yourself as a new and improved person who would never do such bad things again. How about we carry the analogies a bit further. If you had been caught and convicted of/admitted your shoplifting or drug use you would have been fined and perhaps even done some time. It would even now be on your permanent record.

Other people will see this entry on your permanent record and immediately, if temporarily, doubt your morals and ethics. It will affect job applications. It will affect how people initially view you. First impressions are very important. In a nutshell, you will never, ever be trusted quite as freely as you would have been had you never done this. Sorry, that’s the real world we live in. Is it a perfect world? No, but we all seem to agree no one is perfect.

Further, your shoplifting example is a bagatelle. You carried those shoes out accidentally. You did not choose to do it. No one was hurt outright (insurance premiums for everyone go up, however) and there was no malice aforethought. But you intentionally chose your A. And you continuously re-chose it, for whatever reasons, for quite a while. You meant your actions, and I suspect you wanted and enjoyed everything that came with them. Comparing your A to once accidentally forgetting to pay for something small and inconsequential is fuzzy thinking.

I am very happy for you that H and OM’s W have all forgiven you. You are very lucky, actually. God’s forgiveness is a no-brainer. It is a given. But I think, and please correct me if I am wrong, that forgiveness is supposed to be for the betrayed. It isn’t for you. There must be 5,000 posts (if I may momentarily exaggerate for effect) on this site that all say this same thing. Forgiveness is for the forgiver. It is NOT for the betrayer. For you to take their forgiveness and use it to help justify your current feelings about yourself is another form of shoplifting.

Only God’s and your own forgiveness should mean anything concrete to you, don’t you think? Perhaps you should not base you internal view of yourself on your H and OM’W good feelings. That is a lesson low self-esteem WS’s need to learn right away.

It’s a DJ to think we know what your H and your OM’s W are thinking. But I am going to hazard a guess anyway. Neither will trust you implicitly ever again. Not for the rest of their lives. When you are unreachable, late or acting odd where do you suppose H’s thoughts will wander? Despite what he says to keep the peace, what will he really be wondering, even years and years from now? Their innocence is gone. Really, you stole it from them, forever.

BTW, ethically and morally you also committed a great wrong against OM. Predator, liar, scumbag or whatever, has he forgiven you? Would you accept it if he did? Have you forgiven him (the difficult one I suspect)?

Let’s take this a bit farther, also. You have committed a great wrong against several people who loved you or trusted you implicitly. You imposed on them extreme pain that can never be taken back by you. Some people even suffer physical problems and irreversible stress induced health effects because of their spouse’s A. The person who caused this, the one who is ultimately culpable, has no power to make them forget their pain.

You have also taken from them, and then discarded, love and trust that can never be replaced. What you have taken from them can never, not ever, be put back. Real world, not analogy, intruding again.

There must be another 5,000 posts on here from members who each and every one say what they have gone through can never be removed. It can be covered over with scar tissue, it can be forcefully repressed for the rest of their lives and it may be truly forgiven but it will never be forgotten. There are no reparations, none, that will ever render the pain and abandonment moot. There is not enough regret and remorse in the entire universe to undo the principal, let alone the interest, in what you owe them in atonement. That is why the your H and OM’s W must forgive the debt. It is so they can live, if just to limp on, again. It is not so you can feel better about yourself!

You have changed your victims’ world views for the worse, forever. At the very least, you have taken away their innocence and unconditional trust in life. They will never, ever be as happily innocent as they were before you operated on them. Hopefully they will get to a place where they no longer feel like victims. They may become happy again, but it will be for different reasons that existed before you did this. No matter what you think about yourself now, these people will never become what they could have been if you had not done this to them. That potential is erased and can never again be this side of heaven.

Now, knowing what those affected by your A have to live with for the rest of their lives, what do you, for the rest of your natural life, have to live with? Is there something you need to repress? Does the answer lead you to rethink that the consequences of your A are forever in your past?

You can indeed be sure you will never have an A, steal, lie, do drugs, commit murder, whatever again. That is very good. It is absolutely required for recovery, personal and M. But what is gone is gone forever, never to be again. You cannot go back in time and unmake your A, nor erase it from reality, no matter how much you wish you could. Rats, here come those thorny problems with living in the real world again.

Lets’ do a short thought-experiment. Say, for the sake of argument, your H could not get past your A and divorced you. Later you meet a really nice guy and want a serious honest relationship with him. Let’s say you want to practice Radical Honesty and all the other tenets of MB you have learned. When do you tell him your first M ended because you had a sordid A and lied and manipulated your H? Do you minimize it? Do you blame OM? Do you keep him in the dark? This time, do you let this guy make his own decisions up front about your relationship in the light of truth?

Would you be afraid he would not be able to trust you the same after he knows the truth? He is human just like you. No fair blaming him for his shortcomings. What do you do? I have to say, in all honesty, the tone of your post makes me think you would feel justified in hiding your A, pretending it is ancient history and this guy does not have, “a need to know.”

The vast majority of victims of an A say they would not marry someone who they know had an A in a previous M. I hate harsh reality as much as you do, but your A is not ancient history and never will be. Your A does indeed affect how others will forever think about you, period. If they know about it, they will act differently. If you are going to be radically honest about it, that is.

I believe that a true well rounded person is the open and integrated sum of ALL their actions throughout their life. Your A, as well as how you deal with it, both define you. To simply say, “I made a mistake but it does not define me,” is a horrid copout. Your A has in part defined your H and your OM’s W. It sure as hell does add into the definition of you too.

I am very glad you see yourself as a wonderful woman, wife and mom. I bet you did before your A, too. There must be 10,000 posts on MB that say anyone, and they mean anyone, is vulnerable to an A. Now, you have made great personal changes and you know you will never have an A. I believe you, actually. But I want you to know many of us have cultivated those attributes from early in our lives and we knew we would never have an A from the day of our wedding. I am happy to see you are finally among us.

Does that make us better than you? No, I don’t think so. But in most schools of philosophy and theology, including mainline Christianity, you will not now be where you could have been in the end. You are a lap or two behind.

For you, your H, your children, OM’s W and children, and for OM himself, there are deep holes you dug that may be able to be plastered over, stitched tight and maybe even filled with some substance related to forgiveness. But those missing areas will never be what they once had potential to become. For the rest of your lives you will, all of you, wonder now and then what could have been.

Recovery is possible. We see it here on MB all the time, and from huge LTA’s much worse than your fling. But recovery is best accomplished with the full knowledge of what is lost forever and what can never be again. There is a need to come to terms with what could have been as well as with what was actually done. Everyone else you affected will have to. I do not see this in your post though.

I read your post and I think, "Here is a person who had an A, is genuinely sorry, changed their outlook on things and now assures the world she is over it for good. And, everyone she has affected and everyone she ever will affect in life better be over it also.” This sounds a lot like the people still in the fog of their A, actually.

Thanx for listening, and I really am happy for you and your H. I think I wanted to write this response for the benefit of anyone out there who might interpret your post as a recipe for how to ultimately get away with it. It does in places sound like that.

I don’t think I used any labels, did I? Hope not. Well, besides “OM”.

Thanx again,

T

Originally posted by Thos:

I read your post and I think, "Here is a person who had an A, is genuinely sorry, changed their outlook on things and now assures the world she is over it for good. And, everyone she has affected and everyone she ever will affect in life better be over it also.” This sounds a lot like the people still in the fog of their A, actually.

Thanx for listening, and I really am happy for you and your H. I think I wanted to write this response for the benefit of anyone out there who might interpret your post as a recipe for how to ultimately get away with it. It does in places sound like that.

Gee Thos, if Jelly's recovery is a recipe for "how to ultimately get away with "it" then why on earth should ANYONE bother with Marriage Building at all? Perhaps you are confused as to what the purpose of this site is? Nice downer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> KB