Slight TJ here -
Suzet*
Thank you for that poem (and the link too!) Do you know the author of that poem?

orginally posted by Thos:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You have changed your victims’ world views for the worse, forever. At the very least, you have taken away their innocence and unconditional trust in life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As the betrayed spouse....I can promise you that my view of the world has NOT changed for the worse forever yikes! How horrible and hopeless my life would be if that were true! If it did...that burden would fall squarely on my head...not the head of those who betray me. In fact, it has changed for the better....why?, because I know that I am strong and capable and that makes the world a safer, more beautiful place for me...a place that has hope and forgiveness. It's very disrespectful to suggest that I have no hope of ever seeing the world in an unsullied way again. If that were true....how could any of us survive things like war, ethic cleansing, the holocaust, starvation of children etc. We would be the walking wounded forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They will never, ever be as happily innocent as they were before you operated on them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Operated" is a particularly disrespectful word in this context. Part of growing into adulthood is losing innocence...no one, even those who have never been betrayed can hang on to that ellusive innocence of childhood. I am still innocent...in the sense that I haven't committed adultery...and I welcome the knowledge that blind trust and an innocent view of the reality of the world is a child's view. From the moment I could read the bible or a newspaper...my innocence began to wane. My WS spouse had no right to hasten that process...and I detest that he did...but it is also something he couldn't ultimately protect me from either...not if I was to grow up in this world. I miss the days when I was certain he could never do this, I always will, but I no longer take that for granted...and there is hope in that too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hopefully they will get to a place where they no longer feel like victims. They may become happy again, but it will be for different reasons that existed before you did this. No matter what you think about yourself now, these people will never become what they could have been if you had not done this to them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is so disrespectful to those of us who have recovered from our spouses A....that it's hard for me to respond. Nothing my H could do to me...will vanquish my own spirit or prevent me from becoming exactly who I want to be. He doesn't have that power....and he never had in the first place. There are those of us who meet adversity...and become LESS. There of those of us who trudge along in spite of adversity. And there are those of us who become MORE because of adversity. Look at Christopher Reeve or others like him.

As far as "always being a lap behind" because of really bad choices...I'm not sure that anger, lack of forgiveness or bitterness doesn't slow down progress on the racetrack of redemption just as surely. JMHO

Hey all you fellow conflict avoiders, follow me, RUN, RUN, back to -

IDIOTVILLE!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Right behind ya, Believer!

starfish, that was a great post.

KY said Top Rope, Tiggy was saying it also. So props for Tiggy too. But thanks, really.

Well, how nice to be noticed. Thanks KY. I hardly ever venture up here to GQ2. I am very comfy on the recovery board. I just wanted to come back and see where this thread went.

I will say I don't care who gets the credit for the Recovered WS, as long as it fits wear it. I think I want to start going by RBS myself thank you very much. Maybe this will be a new trend how nice. Afterall isn't that the whole dang point of MBs, to become recovered?

Tiggy

Recovered? YES!!!! And, while we're at it, how about just RW or RH or RS...remember the things you did to get where you are, the good and the bad, but why continue to define yourself by them?

I just posted on another thread...I take some responsibility in the events that led to my H's A. And, as I said in my post yesterday (on this thread)...I am not interested in daily crucifying my H for his wrong-doing...we all make bad choices, and I refuse to live the rest of my life in a rut because of this one. I DO NOT want to spend it continuously referring to BS or WS - we both did wrong, yes, some of the scarring hurt more than the rest, but we were both to blame for at least a part of it...I don't think that many recovered spouses would disagree.

So, again I ask, why not drop the W/B? Hindsight is 20/20, that's why it's called "hind"sight...use the knowledge you gained by the hurt that was caused, without it defining you.

I too am uncomforable with the FWW title, at least where my W is concerned even though I am the BH. Recently, it just no longer seems fair to use that title and I almost always refer to her as W or Mrs. E.

What I have found is that I have been able to forgive Mrs. E long before she has been able to forgive herself. Hanging a a scarlet letter or title on her simply perputuates her feelings of shame and self loathing smf that gets in the way of repairing our M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by YL:
<strong>Suzet*
Thank you for that poem (and the link too!) Do you know the author of that poem? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YL, no I don't know the author of the poem. Sorry! Most of the poems on my link I received from friends through e-mail. The poems and stories was either anonymous or there wasn’t a name attached to it.

Suzet

Wow. I have only tead the first page, but this post was one I had to respond to.
I came here because I had finally reached a place in my very long drawn out repentance process for sexual sin, that I wanted to be around people who also see the casting away of my lack of principles, honesty and character were important. To not explain them away.
There was a time, that I couldn't be here long, because facing the devastation I have caused was too much.
But, about two years ago, ,I hit upon telling myself I was that person, I was untrustworthy, but today, I would not even come close to doing things that would lead me to a path of repeating them. And said that to myself daily.
I am divorced now. But as yet I do not date. Not since that day, because I have not kept promises to my God, and I can't offend him that way again, so to this date, i won't.
I have practiced NC with the people in my past i have damaged and hurt with my sin, and I also keep it that way. A few months ago, while I was at work, my daughter turned on my computer that I used for school work, and left on my instant messenger. Something I hadn't left on past the intial program opening in months. And of course "he" was there.... and I didn't answer. He was mad, and my daughter coming back in the room to find the message left it up, and showed me later.
I have become even more careful about not being available that way or anyway. Not even having that be an easy way to contact my son, which was why I kept it at all has me using it.
So.. where is this rambling leading. Well changes have been made. I may be a rat, but I am not a totally dumb rat. I do learn.
I had first that that TOW would have people that would understand that. But of course they don't care about hurt, devestation and pain unless its theirs. They don't care about change, unless its other people like the people they victimize that change.
So. I came here... and Eureka!!!! Here and there among the innocent victims that have been harmed and hurt, are a few repentant sinners. People who have decided that they will sin no more, and do what they can to start mitigating the harm they have caused.
And finally someday, I too will be able to say that I am no longer defined by my sin, but my repentance!

Noel, thanks for posting on my thread. If you are still reading, I hope you don't get discouraged. The nay sayers came later.

Please remember, their opinion, is just that, their opinion, and it is our opinion of ourselves that give us our worth.

(((noel)))

KY

bumping up for hubby!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Noelie:
And finally someday, I too will be able to say that I am no longer defined by my sin, but my repentance!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AMEN sister Noelie!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Pep...

Excellent sentiment for this first official day of Lent.

The Ash Wednesday homily last night was about King David. I thought it was interesting that the pastor spoke only about the repentance and forgiveness aspect of it...not that David was punished and suffered for the sin.