Pep

They weren't out of line. Its a public forum and KY invited such commentary by posting on a public forum.

I withdraw my comment.

I was just stung because my cyberfriends KY & ST may be hurt by some of the opinions offered. They have worked really hard to get to a point of looking forward not back, and KY being told she should for ever remember her transgression upset me.

And I disagree fundamentally that REPENTENT RECOVERED people should for ever be held imperfect because of a forgiven, recovered sin.

But it took me a long tiem to get here. I should be more cognitive of timescale.


* in response to your second post here, I understand. BUT this site is only useful because it has lucid, articulate FWS on it who offer their candour.

Yes it says much about FWS recovery BUT FBS are rarely subjected to the kind of judgmentalising as KY was in that thread.

We BS are mewed over and stroked, while if an FWS dares to say she is getting happy with what she is becoming she is reminded that she will always be an adulterer. Semantics apart, I disagree with that.

I want a life for ALL recoverd couples where the only labels are 'husband and wife'. I don;t see how any of the FBS comments to KY were helpful.

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
I was just stung because my cyberfriends KY & ST may be hurt by some of the opinions offered. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I am being honest with you ... I think your strong emotional reaction has very little to do with KY and ST ... and is mostly about Squid.

Frankly, I TRUST KY to handle herself. She's become quite strong and has found her ground.

Do YOU trust KY to handle any opinions that don't suit her??? To me it appears that you do not ... and therefore, I think this is not about the board, but about your wife.

Pep

And you don't think that EVERY RESPONSE to KYs thread wasn't in some part about their own situation, Pep ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don;t see how any of the FBS comments to KY were helpful.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Helpful to whom? To KY I presume... right?

I thought MY response was (if not helpful) at least congratulatory, and I am FBS.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> And you don't think that EVERY RESPONSE to KYs thread wasn't in some part about their own situation, Pep ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure. So, in a sense ... each post was someone working out their own issues ... Not just on that thread but nearly every topic.

And????

Pep

And I already withdrew my comment, Pep.

People can say what they need to, and KY can handle a lot worse than some FBS comments.

I just think it takes a very string and hardy FWS ( 2OAK? ) to handle such stiff responses for teh good of others.

Some FWS help others before they ar ethemselves truly recovered. we lost SadFWW because of this I think.

My comment is withdrawn.

But I still dont like people saying that FWS should be labelled for life if they truly repent and recover. Not just in my situation.

Knewbetter,

Yup, I thought the same thing. I had to actually look back and see if I was blaming her when she said he beat her up. I didn't. I didn't hold her hand I guess and say wow, that was too bad that he beat you up and had to go to jail. I was/am genuinely concerned. I have sat with battered women who were bruised and convinced that this man loved them. I watched one woman who was at the hospital because he had grazed her head and her inner thigh with a bullet!!! She was sure it was his last time, that he loved her, yada yada yada. He killed her a couple of years later. Unbelievably sad.

So I got a reaction when Momma'sSad said all that about abuse. I also got a reaction when Orchid said that as a person remains a WS this was always a possiblity--I am assuming from context that Orchid meant that a WS is always capable of violence. And in a very general sense I suppose we all are. But just as there are some that would never have an affair. There are also some who would never be violent and they are also WS.

Orchid you are so right never blame the BS for affair crap. But do you really think it is blaming a BS to say hey girl he beat you up, protect yourself? I don't. I was trying to just tell her to get help. I admit that I think I could have done a better job saying that. Relationship stuff can't be dealt with if there is physical violence. I believe even Harley says that somewhere.

Hi Bob,
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that a comment stung. I have been stung by many a comments on these boards and I know what you mean. I don't come over to GQ very often. It is intense over here.

Tiggy

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Tiggy ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
Some FWS help others before they ar ethemselves truly recovered. we lost SadFWW because of this I think.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sad was not a fully recovered WW. That's for sure. Her choice to go elsewhere was a loss for the board. That's for sure too.

The board also lost someone of value when Melody Lane was "run off the board" (a term I now use with sarcasm because I detest when this is said about any FWS who chooses to leave of their own free will) ... by a particular FWS who was defending a troll OW.

So if someone chooses to leave ... it is one choice available among other choices ... and never a forced choice by anyone on MB. I refuse to accept responsibility of any FWS deciding they don't like it here ... just as YOU, Bob, should not accept responsibility for Squid's unilateral decision to leave the marriage (in her heart).

If Sad should decide to return to MB and post, there would be many here, myself included, who would welcome her input ... for she had much to contribute.

Sometimes what has been seen as "name-calling" is nothing more than an accurate term applied to a situation. And sometimes it is namecalling. YOU Bob, have namecalled the OM in your life very unflattering things ... should the FOM on these boards be offended when you call OM a dwarf ugly git ? (In my opinion, no... that's stupid)

Pep


My comment is withdrawn.

But I still dont like people saying that FWS should be labelled for life if they truly repent and recover. Not just in my situation. [/QB][/QUOTE]

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> And you don't think that EVERY RESPONSE to KYs thread wasn't in some part about their own situation, Pep ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWIW Bob, I am neither a BS or a WS. I don't feel that any of the responses on that thread were condemning of FWS's nor did they infer that to carry that title meant that they were not forgiven.

I think that a fully recovered FWS is one that can stand up and claim it and know that they have conquered it and recovered their marriage.

Those that choose to isolate themselves in the confines of I-ville are not yet ready to claim it. They are still trying to shelter themselves from the "opinion" that shadows the title that they carry.

When they can step outside of I-ville and humbly claim it, they will be much further along in their recovery.

Orchid, sorry for the TJ.

Pep I am aware of the dichotomy in my mental treatment of my OM compared to any other human beings.

i am comfortable with that right now. I know its isn;t consistent or justifiable but thats where I am now.

I don't have to be fair to him. I enjoy hating him right now. He f'ked my wife and I am programmed to want him dead for that. Ask any lion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And yes I want him to carry the label '[censored]' for as long as he lives. It would make me think ifhe ever approached me, apologising and asking for forgiveness though.

I might not be carrying a weapon at that time ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JOKE !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
I enjoy hating him right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">~LOL~

Pep

Bramble Rose hit it on the mark when she posted:

I saw instead, perhaps, a reason why people ought to be a bit easier with the 2x4s on a BS, and perhaps have a little more compassion when they make mistakes.

That the BS tends to fall into believing the cacophony of blame from others simply makes the point even stronger.

The BS has enough pain and blame. Maybe those 2x4s should be padded and brought out less often.

The point of this thread was started to let all of us BS, WS or Xws to really take a look at what we are saying. Why? Because it is sooo easy to miscommunicate.

Take a look at the plan A and B concepts here. Many that post misuse or misunderstand plan A and B. Even after reading the info (Concepts and books). AFTER going through it and getting beaten (mentally, emotionally and yes sometimes physically) does the plans make sense and often are followed. When it is, personal benefit is achieved and M benefit could follow providing the WS is now an Xws or spouse (I see a difference in character with each of the 3 catagories). Either way the BS walks away a better person with plan A or plans A & B being implemented as needed.

This thread was created to express some of the feelings a BS has..... while it isn't true, the BS can still feel that way..... at least initially.

Note: Edited down.

take care,
L.

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Have to reply to this. Orchid, it must be miscommunication because I am not understanding what you are saying as far as the Momma'ssad and domestic violence. I didn't see anywhere that someone told her not to protect herself. I didn't see anyone say she couldn't or shouldn't defend herself when she was attacked. Is that what happened to you? Are you superimposing your situation over this one? I do that sometimes. But didn't Momma'sSad question get lost in all the arguing? Did any of us offer a plan? Well, I do remember you said to go to the party and enjoy it. And I was trying to point her towards help with the DV.

I don't know. It just seems like a lot of what you just pointed out is exactly what happened on that thread. I for one really don't appreciate you telling me I am brow beating someone especially after making it clear that I wasn't trying to do that.

I am baffled really baffled and it seems to get worse with every post I read of yours. Perhaps I need to stay clear of your posts, don't know.

Well, this is no longer healthy for me. I need to clear out of here before your posts bring me down Orchid.

I am here to recover my marriage and perhaps you could take your own advice and be careful how you talk to people. I feel offended by you and will now avoid your posts. I am sure you do a lot of others good here with all of your experience but you have lobbed something my direction I think you have just finished chastising everyone else about.

I will think twice before I try to steer a woman who had just been beaten by her husband to get help with the abuse first. Ouch.

Tiggy

Tiggy,

Not sure if you are going to read this or not. Hope you do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I don't recall posting to you directly much so maybe that's another stumbling block for me.

I posted to you, LM and KB on Mommas thread a few mintues ago. Please understand my earlier posts on Mommas thread were made general statements I made as a warning and probably did not clarify it hence the feeling I was attacking you. I wasn't.

I aplogize for offending you in anyway. I appreciate that you can state how you feel.

There is not a lot of deep discussions here like a few years ago. Those discussions on general principals really helped me a lot. To avoid dangers, be aware of them and be prepared to the best of my ability.

For me domestic violence was a new lesson. Years ago I thought it was my job to endure it. I didn't realize how much I was already enduring due to the A. Now I make it my goal NOT to endure domestic violence or anything that leads up to it. That is a big task. Sometimes my greatest enemy is myself wanting to suck up all the pain so others won't have to endure it. Not healthy method I'm sure. So I have changed my way of handling it and it is working. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope you can continue to help others as you are helping yourself. Not enough of that in this world.

All the best,
L.

Orchid, so as not to threadjack Momma’s thread further, you posted to Tiggy, LM and I:

I used this current experience of Momma's as a warning how NOT to let it escalate to something worse. It had all the symptoms to do so, right? The straw that could have broken the camels back was within reach. Did I panic and post it as such? Maybe..... I certainly did not want to see another episode happen in her household.

The scary piece is how often these episodes happen to the BS. It is almost daily and the fear of it actually turning into an domestic violence case as the epereinces reported here are waaay to many. 1 is too many. That is why my red flag warning went up. I know Momma did not attack her H, but if he kept it up, she could have and maybe there would have been no support to stop her.

Correct, and she was already pointed to outside DV help by both LM and Tiggy. This is appropriate advice. Fanning BS's already adrenaline fueled emotions by talking about how so many WSs get killed or are in danger of being killed by their overwrought BSs, the use of the word "understandable" ect. seemed like dubious “help” considering this woman just got injured at her husband’s hand. How ever well intentioned you were, it was an extremely confusing post to me and obviously Tiggy also. I'm glad we are clearing up what you really meant. I do think it would have made a great stand-alone thread.

Telling her to get outside help and giving her MB options is helpful and was/is already done. My post contains the link to John39’s thread to complement WAT’s quick start. If she goes over all the links she will have a solid base of understanding of what she needs to do next.

I am not for violence, either way. But I am for protection.

I’m glad to hear you clarify this. It was not the message “heard”, hence the raised eyebrows from both Tiggy and I.

If we personally have not expereinced it.....then listen closely when other report they have..... it will truly be a learning expereince that could ultimately save our lives.

Since this post is addressed to LM, Tiggy and myself, I have to conclude that you are speaking directly to the three of us. For the record, Tiggy and I both have personal acquaintance and experience in dealing with DV. LM as a trauma surgeon has mostly likely had the effects of DV cross his surgery door, but he can confirm this for himself. Welcome to the club nobody wants to belong to Orchid, you're not the only one. KB

KB, I see you and Tiggy are on the same page. Ok. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

LM, you are a person of integrity and speaks his mind. I have great respect for you. I am sure I am in for at least a word or 2 if I haven't pzzed you off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope we can all bet back to the topic of this thread...... I'm the BS.....Blame Me!

Now you all realize this is what the WS claims to want the BS to say, right? Isn't it horrifying the list of some things BS' have suffered? Sometimes we hear so much about it we tend to get numb to the severity of it all. Yet when it is compiled..... is makes one shudder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

L.

Morning everyone. Interesting reading. My sitch is capsulized below, my thread is Replay and counting, 1, 2, 3.

H is pretty much not talking to me on any basis. He has been seeing the OW since 2/04 and I don't see any signs of stopping. On the adviced of my L my paycheck is going into my indv acct. H and I have not had the time to talk $$ the it will happen this week. H also went to see an L, "it was not what I expected, he was pretty straightforward." Haven't heard anything yet.

I had been plan Aing until the holidays when I backslid ... just couldn't take it. I'm in semi detachment...still think about him and the OW, still love him much. This is his second A in 6 years. I have to say, I really was doing pretty well, now, I don't know what to do.

I'm focusing on me and the kids, doing what's best for them and me, but I want him back at this point tho others are tellling me I'm nuts. He is in MLC, I can definately tell when he's in/out of fog.

I've always been independent and I know I'll survive, rather survive with him than w/o him, tho.

At this point, my self esteem has taken the worst of it. I've only accepted those things w/in the marriage I could control, those I own 100%, he however, says he takes accountability, but...it's really not there. In MLC, it's all about the BS.

I'd really like to know where I should go from here.

Thanks, all. Best, Susan

ustr,

Do you feel like as the title of this thread implies: I'm the BS.... blame me!!! ???

It isn't true but that's who some of the WS like to paint us. YUCK!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What have you read and implemented here? R U in any MC/IC?

I see you are at a crossroads. Make sure you and your family are financially safe.

Maybe you would do better if you setup your own thread. Then you can get responses addressed directly to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

<small>[ January 24, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>