I HAVE posted and killed threads. I HAVE posted questions and not been answered. AND I HAVE been called out in a negative light by a regular poster on this board. No, that person didn't name names, but the specifics of my sitch are unique enough for ANYONE to put two and two together. Can you IMAGINE how that made me FEEL??????????? (I still get a squidgy feeling in my stomach thinking about it) I quit posting in my journal because of it....but I'ville knows what's going on with me. I tell them and they comment back to me.

D'ya know what? The idjits STILL accept me and my decisions. They question me on my choices and keep my eyes on the prize. They do it W/OUT contempt or snide callings out. They also have supported me enough so that I can NOW see that no matter what happens to my M, I will be okay.

Sorry peeps. I've been wounded enough. I stick to I'ville b/c if it weren't for them, I'd have gone wonky (er) a long time ago. I could not live through the pain without tempering it with laughter. The laughter is what gets me through. The laughter is what makes me okay. When the laughter stops for me, I will know it's over.

I venture out. I read and pray for everyone. And I'm getting through this....but if it weren't for the unconditional CARING I received from my idjits, I wouldn't EVER have kept posting here.

I am not trying to argue. I was just replying to the point or question of where were there any MB principles. Bob said yesterday that he is taking time away to focus on his recovering marriage.

I am aware that Bob (and also I) have received invaluable advice from all of you on the board. I am truly, deeply grateful whenever I have a serious question, post, and get thoughtful supportive and supported answers from experienced MBers. I will continue to post to others in all areas of the board, IF I think I have anything to add. However, I am much more on the receiving end at the present time due to my situation. I sometimes have no advice to share, but I soak up the advice given to others with situations similar to mine. I also counsel with Steve. I am deeply committed to MB principles, and I am uplifted by every success story I read.

I believe God led me to MB, as I started out on some other boards and accidentally found this one after I had already been looking and studying for a while. It has been a godsend to me, and I have already sent several other people to this site.
I think this is the most wonderful place to be, if you have to be somewhere for this reason.

Sometimes I just have to vent. And rather than bog everyone down with my sadness, I sometimes vent in Iville. They are nice people, and sometimes they reply, and sometimes they make me laugh about it and then I feel better. Sometimes I post a thread that is more question than vent, and when I do, nice people out here answer me too. (Like you)

I like both. Iville does not want to feel like they are "isolating themselves." They are a part of MB also, and almost everyone posts on that thread as well as all these others. But they know that their silliness needs to be confined to one thread and that on a serious thread would not be the best place to reply with a silly answer.

I have never sent nor received an e mail from a male member of MB, Idiotville or not. Nor will I. Neither would the others, except those married to each other.

Both MB in general and Iville have been a blessing to me, in different ways. I fail to understand how anything or anyone is being hurt by allowing those of us who deal with pain through humor to talk to each other.

All human beings are different, and they are comforted in different ways. I am glad that I found MB. It has been the answer to my prayers.
Idiotville seems to bring relief from my depression. I need both.
Thanks.

This is one of many of the responses on I'ville to this thread:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try as you may, you will never get everyone to like you, or understand you. Deal with it. Ignore ignorance. Stay true to yourself. Recognize when jealosy drives your detractors. People like that make it easier to excel. [Big Grin]

Thank God for people like that!! [Razz]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I'm a "people like that" since I respectfully raised some concerns....but for the record, I like most folks here, including those on I'ville,I know I'm not jealous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , ignorant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> or make it easy for people to excel because I'm such a loser. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I find this really disrespectful and just another data point. *sigh*

<small>[ January 24, 2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Star*fish, you've always been one of my favourite posters on MB. I've never responded to one of your posts but I read EVERY one.

I'd like to take something positive out of all this. Pep just said "pay it forward" and I'd love to pay it forward for other people.

I honestly don't know the best way to respond to people. As a RWW (love that - recovered WW) I don't respond to foggy spouses because I find it too frustrating and I know that whatever I say falls on deaf, foggy ears. I've tried responding to BWs and have been told they don't give a rats patootie what I felt as an OW, I respond to FWW's to show them how good a recovery can be and I respond to BH's to give them an insight into their WW's or FWW's foggy brains. It's with BH's and FWW's that I seem to help most.

I'd really value your input into the best way I can help around here.

Bearing in mind that part of the reason I post on I-ville is time constraints. Personal internet use is forbidden at my work, I'm in a different time zone from nearly everyone else here, my H and family would prefer I didn't spend too much time on the computer.

I'm on vacation at the moment, it's 7.35am in the morning and this is the only time I'm on when everyone else is on.

Also, the quote you posted above. Knowing that the poster you quoted has just been served with divorce papers and will have to fight for custody of his very much loved toddler, I knew where he was coming from and can understand a bit of his pain and bitterness.

Jen

kiwi,

I want to think about this for a while, so just a quick response for now (gotta go to the grocery)....and I promise to post later when time allows.

You DO help. I've read your posts. In spite of what people say....they hear you. It took a long time for me to realize that about my own posts, but it's true. Remain as you are....respectful and authentic and you will be heard....and it will help.
((((((((((((((kiwi))))))))))))))))

Challenge???? HELLOOOOOOO, have you read my thread???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

E-tu Weaver? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I venture out all the time, so this soooo doesn't apply to ME. Did I just turn on I-ville? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Not a chance.

I-ville is there because some of us, usually the most damaged individuals heal with humor.

I have been completely ignored on sooooo many threads and even been referred to as disrespectful because of my humor.

Not my intentions at all. I do not disrespect anybodies pain, I just handle the situation a bit differently, with laughs.

To some we might be offensive on I-ville, but it isn't for us, we have that kind of humor, it is just funny. We crack each other up.

Anybody who emails me, emails my H as well, we share an account. An EA can build anywhere, not just I-ville come on, what do you think we are, Idiots???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Would you feel better if it was called something different? If we was to call it, Supportville??? Would that be better. I'm guessing we would get lots of newbies on there then. We all need support, that is why we are here, for support.

Out welcome mat is always out, we graciously take in new people and instantly give them support and advice.

If you have not read any MB principles, you have not read enough, it is full of it. Also full of crap and nonsense, but look at this thread, where are the MB principles here.

I could give you a never ending list of useless threads, completely non MB related. We have a running thread, and MB is used very OFTEN, daily I would have to say, it might be "cluttered" (ouch, as somebody put it) but it is there. So should all of those useless threads be held under scrutiny????

I LOVE MB, I LOVE the principles, I LOVE plan A, and I LOVE my I-ville support team.

Pep, it might not have been I-ville who first helped BP, but I bet he could give you a list of supporters from I-ville that helped him. I challenge you to look up his very first thread.

Tom Joad, an over qualified Idiot!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I bow to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Weaver - I love you, I'd except your challenge, but like I said, it doesn't apply to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> As for the chickens I mean Idiots, we will have to see how they take your challenge.

We will support anybody who post in our town, we will make you laugh, and we will help wipe your tears. We will also guide you with MB principles.

KY
(The Queen Jelly)

Nice post, Queen Jelly bing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From Kiwi J:
As a RWW (love that - recovered WW).... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kiwi J,

Let me say that I like that TOO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I've not read that description here before......but something about it just "resonates" with me.

Anyway, just wanted to interject that.
Continue on.

Hey Top Rope, nice to see you. You haven't been round here much lately.

KY coined RWW on another thread and I think it is a GREAT acronym.

Star*fish, I look forward to your reply. Whenever you say "chere" I go all funny - in a nice way. I remember you got slammed for using it by someone once. Go figure.

Jen

Et tu KY?

Et me que ? Pas essayer de fomenter l'ennui, juste l'a eu envie de prendre et regarde c'est hors tout.

Does that answer your question? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Aislynn, I did not know that was you (Maddy). Wow you sound so sub-dued now. Dont ya?

Kimmy, You are not going to let one cranky MB'r stop you from posting are you? That is so unlike you. I'm serious. And I have wondered why you haven't been posting too much. I think you are great! Your funny and your one of the most well rounded people I know. Don't let ANYONE make you feel bad Kimmy. That is just not right.

Kiwi, I think you are so helpful because you are soooo calm. You are sincere and serene, very! You were one of the first who responded to me, and without your kindness to me, I don't know that I would have stuck around here (given my title at that time).

Now I have to start thinking about Pep's thread. This place is just like school!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Et tu KY?

Et me que ? Pas essayer de fomenter l'ennui, juste l'a eu envie de prendre et regarde c'est hors tout.

Does that answer your question?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No habla Espanol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

That's not funny, you know I'm an Idiot, and your just showing off.

I'll just believe you said, I have great eyes, and you'll cherish me forever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well just keep believing KY!

BTW that was French not Spanish. I was going to post in Cherokee but my handy dandy translator wouldn't cough it up. I do have a couple of Chippewa friends over on the island, but my snowmoble is out of commision or I seriously would have gone over there and made one of them write up a little reply for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTW that was French not Spanish. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, that is part of my charm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know some Cherokee -

HOW

and

Pass the Peacepipe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jelly said;
Our welcome mat is always out we graciously take in new members and give them support and advice.


Where was my graciousness, support and advice? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Mr. E aka Cowboy

Jen,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I honestly don't know the best way to respond to people. As a RWW (love that - recovered WW) I don't respond to foggy spouses because I find it too frustrating and I know that whatever I say falls on deaf, foggy ears. I've tried responding to BWs and have been told they don't give a rats patootie what I felt as an OW, I respond to FWW's to show them how good a recovery can be and I respond to BH's to give them an insight into their WW's or FWW's foggy brains. It's with BH's and FWW's that I seem to help most. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most of what I said to you when you first came here "fell on deaf ears" as well. You underestimate your abilities and your powers Jen. You can and do help a lot of people.

One of the problems is the very thing that some of the members of Iville complained about. A new poster will NOT join Iville because it seems to be about and for "old friends". They are hurt and then need help. Several stated they were thread enders, but the reality was that they were not. Several felt they were not accepted, but you also deny new members your considerable skill and experience because they do not see you posting as much to other members.

Finally, your posts do have impacts on people even those that do not post.

I have no problem with Iville, I just don't have time for it. But I worry that you all are not taking as much time as you could so that as Pep put it, you could "pay it forward".

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
I honestly don't know the best way to respond to people.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes I feel this way too. So, when I find myself confused as to where to begin, I usually try to ask the person a question. You can often tell how receptive someone is at that moment by asking a slightly probing question.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know that whatever I say falls on deaf, foggy ears.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Welcome to the club. And the "foggy ears" can be a BS as much as a WS .... both are living in hurtsville, and that effects one's hearing and receptiveness. Wear teflon underwear Jen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's with BH's and FWW's that I seem to help most.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How fantastic!

You have stuff to share Jen ... and it will often fall upon seemingly deaf ears. And then sometime later, the one you thought did not like you, and for sure was not listening to you .... they say "You really helped me." It's sometimes from the most unexpected source.

And with practice ... you will get a better sense of someone's readyness.

Your experience has taught you much.... pay it forward Jen. If you don't ... your gift goes unused, and that is a shame.

PLUS!!!! Getting shot full of holes by an angry response is really a gift as well. It will make you question yourself, which is OK. And myself, having been told I am "harsh" "unsympathetic" or "uncaring" has always given me an opportunity to look and see if they might perhaps have a point. The angry response out of left field gives you an opportunity to practive self-soothing!

Pep

<small>[ January 24, 2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

ky and other "idiots",

I know the main board can get rocky and I've seen first hand two of the huge dynamics that created idiotville....extreme disrespect for even repentent WS and lack of response to many posts. I can empathize deeply with wanting to have a safe place to post where you know you won't be ignored, you can feel comraderie, have your spirits lifted, find a community within this one that actually cares about you, as well as one that treats you with humanity. I can embrace those things.

Let me give you analogy that might make sense so that you understand that a challenge to idiotville as well as some concerns about idiotville...does not translate into an "attack" on idiotville. Most things create complex dynamics that are both good and bad....idiotville is one of them. Here's my analogy...and I hope this helps explain what I mean.

My first child was supremely gifted....oddly so like some of those nerdy misfit children. Like many of those like her....she had trouble fitting into a normal classroom and her socialization skills were not that good. I'm not talking about a child who is gifted in math or reading...but one who is so different, that it creates social problems, special teaching challenges....not in one subject, but in all of them. When it became too noticeable to be ignored, I was approached by teaching professionals who told me they simply could not give her what she needed...and so I began investigating other resources and found a program that I believed fit her needs. But one of the things that the folks running that program insisted that I do was to look long and hard.... realistically at what the pros and cons were for placing her in that program. Here are some of them:

pros:

child individual curriculum...tailored to her needs

socialization with children like her

psychologists to help with special needs

higher level of education

low teacher/student ratio

cons:

same children every year...no adjustment to change, and no intergration into the larger community or learning about how to get along with children NOT like her.

school far from home...no neighborhood activities

poor transition into regular classes if we moved

closed community

long term lack of diversity


I would suggest to you that idiotville may have some similarities....and that pros and cons definitely exist. I still sent my child to that gifted program, but I was willing to at least look at some of the complications and complexities that even something basically positive could create.

I never once suggested idiotville be banned or that it didn't have a positive side.....so the immediate personal attack was unexpected. I tried to raise a respectful discussion about those issues and was met with defensiveness and disrespect. It is not surprising that this discussion quickly went south once arrows started flying....and I for one...think that's too bad.

It could have been a chance to examine good boundaries and make idiotville an even safer/happier/more productive place and remind folks not just on idiotville, but on MB in general that we are ALL vulnerable and we need to keep our eye on the prize....happy marriages, safety, honesty and openess etc.

I believe that knowledge is power...that's not just lip service...I actually believe that unless you examine all the information, making good choices is only harder. These messages...because they are read by everyone...including lurkers, have great power to teach, help and expand people's thinking about how vulnerability is created.

I don't need others to validate my thoughts (there's so much darn much research that already does)...I know they are valid. I know my concerns make sense and were respectfully presented....I take great care not to just "say" stuff, but to back it up with whatever research etc. that I can find. Most marital professionals today will tell you that making close associations, and having daily contact where you share the intimacies and struggles of your life carries a greater risk (in different-sex Rs)...and responsibility for good boundaries. That goes for idiotville....and MB in general. These are legitimate questions to ponder: Does idiotville create GREATER intimacy than MB in general? I think it does, yes. Is that a problem? Maybe yes/maybe no...for some who are particularly vulnerable, I think it's worth looking at. Does that make me a disrespectful, ignorant, jealous, nasty little person? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Kimmy, You are not going to let one cranky MB'r stop you from posting are you? That is so unlike you. I'm serious. And I have wondered why you haven't been posting too much. I think you are great! Your funny and your one of the most well rounded people I know. Don't let ANYONE make you feel bad Kimmy. That is just not right.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sweetie - it hurt the beejeebers out of me at the time. To top it off, I felt unsafe in a place I'd begun to feel good about. I felt like I was being called one of those delcas (sp? Pep? you know - stubborn) that asks for advice, but never took it...the one that does the same thing over and over again expecting different results.... I dunno.... It was an ugly feeling. Plus, who am I, I thought...me who is so flawed, who am I to offer anything other than a sympathetic ear or encouraging word to those who are hurting? I mean, I've been at this for awhile (albeit, on MB a very short while in the grand scheme)... I felt fluffy...like that was all that I was considered as...blonde and fluffy and too stupid or scared to know when to throw in the towel. Dat's me. UG!

(shaking head to dispel visions of inadequacy)

So, I went back into my shell for awhile. Pretty soon I'll get a turtle headache (turtle, turtle) and poke my head back out.

You're sweet. You're def. a keeper, Weav. Yeppers!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And myself, having been told I am "harsh" "unsympathetic" or "uncaring" has always given me an opportunity to look and see if they might perhaps have a point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep - Please add charming, witty and wise to your list of qualities. I've listened and learned. I'm better for (cyberally) knowing you.

- Kimmy

Starfish, does this mean you don't want to find a job in I-ville??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Does that make me a disrespectful, ignorant, jealous, nasty little person?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me loan you my new favorite saying -

Your opinion of me, is none of my business. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BTW, my post was not meant to have any disprespect in it, if you are refering to mine.

KY

no chere....no reference to your post! And if there's an opening for village drunk.....let me know LOL!