Buttercup asked in another thread: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Caren,

Wow. I just read this whole thread, and I'm sorry for all the pain you're obviously going through. I just wanted to ask you, is it worth going through all of these games to get your H back? Is he really worth it? I can understand your wanting to get back at the OW by "getting him back in the sack" and all, but, really, is it worth it? Did you stop and wonder about STD's, since he's been with this OW and then with you? I hope so.

Just sounds like a lot of games to get a WS back. Hope you know what you're doing.

CC </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My answer was in the thread below, but it's basically YES, I believe everything I've been doing is 100% worth it to get my family back.
Original Topic

So I put the question to you folks: Are the 'games' worth it to you. Because truly, the reverse babble and EN filling are a gamble....therefore wouldn't that be a game of chance? That's really what life is, a game of chance.....you can swing the odds in your favor, but it's really not up to you what happens in the end, you just play the game to the best of your ability, and win or lose, you know you tried your best.....that's what I get out of all this.......What do you think?

-Caren

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

I can't anwer you I am sitting on the fence right now and some days are better than others..Mine says he is not going to leave yeah well this guy was never going to have an affair

No, its not worth it.

All the games are not quite the same a MB principles and plan Aing. Plan Aing is being more attractive to your partner, meeting their ENs and not doing what your instincts want by challenging them with discord.

Games are trying to act nice to manipulate the partner to 'see the light' that you are the one he should choose and QUICK.

Plan Aing takes time and might not work and you know it. It makes you a better person for whatever your own future holds.

Games are meant to take a shortcut and might not work and just get YOU worked up more. There is a no-win side to game playing.

This is how I view it.

I'm not trying to oversimplify by calling it a game.....I hadn't thought of it as such until Buttercup's post.

But I do what I have to do.....filling top 3 EN's, which is what I've been instructed and read to do which are, as I said

1. SF
2. Domestic Support (My house was ALWAYS filthy...now I keep it clean...he doesn't live here, but it's the right thing to do, and I'm sure it doesn't go un-noticed)
3. Admiration

I believe I was lax in filling all three of these....I certainly didn't compliment him on much....I've always thought he was attractive, and never hesitated to tell him that, but other than that, I never complimented his strengths...although I do admire them....why didn't I? I was comfortable...I got lazy...he already knows I think this about him...etc (I guess I thought he was psychic, everyone deserves to be complimented on what they do well)this goes for all 3 of his top EN's....SF....Ahhhh I'm too tired, Clean the house....I don't feel like it, so I'd just kinda straighten up...rearrange the dirt and not make the kids pick up a thing. I have changed all these things about myself. Are they beneficial in trying to save my marriage yes.....did I even think about them before no.

It makes me a better person, it makes me a better wife....and I've also been saved during all this mess, and I don't know what else could have made me wake up and smell the coffee on that one.

Does that all make sense?

-Caren

OMG somebody talk to me LMAO....okay, I'll try to resist the urge to look at this site for replies for the next several hours...LOL, no promises though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

Caren:

The SF is a nice gesture from your part and it seems your H likes it. But, being SO AVAILABLE when H is with OW creates nothing but a cake-eater of major proportions. Lets not forget that OW is also offers SF left and right. When H is with you he may be thinking of her or may simply be hypersexual and using you to release the energy while he gets back to OW.

I suspect you have become hypersexual at the thought of losing H and cannot help yourself. In the end H will take advantage of this for his own benefit.

AT this point your SF cannot compare with the SF OW gives him even if she is a cow in bed. She has the advantage of being new whereas you are the old familiar territory. The NEW is an aphrodisiac!

From what I can see you should be planning B your H and not giving him SF. I understand you want the SF very badly and that in your mind you are better in bed, but it will not work. The only thing you can do at this point is to let him know he is losing you. As long as he knows you are available he will cake eat forever.

You make a good point about letting OW know that H has SF with you. Most OW/OM are sort of naïve and believe everything the WS tells them. It is likely your H has told OW that there is no SF between the two of you and that you never wanted to do it with him, ect, ect. Don’t kid yourself your H lies to her as well, perhaps even more. Some OW/OM also come to accept that the WS is having SF with the BS and simply block that info out------------- I guess they go in denial. I cannot imagine falling inn love with a married woman who has SF with BH, but some OM do.

Holy crap someone replied...thanks Stanley...LMAO

You make some valid points, I am plan Aing until I get my W-2's (Which should be anytime now) and we file our taxes at which point (after we cash the check-We do the H&R Block thing so it's fast-I'm handing him the Plan B letter....have it typed up and everything, and then I'll send the OB (other b*tch) her copy).

So I hope that explains a little....you are correct in the assumption I am hyper sexual at the time, I know it's probably the fact that I feel I'm losing him...I don't know what to do about that except SF....don't want it with anyone else.

It scares the living **** out of me to think of Plan B...I know it's what I have to do, but I am so scared this is exactly what he wants...ya know? I mean I know he doesn't want to not talk to me, he obviously does, and I understand the concept of plan B fully....it's just a scary...more than a little bit.

GAWD!!!! I'm the emotional roller coaster friggen queen. I was fine all day, until I had to go get some of my stuff from 'our' house, because the dumb landlord we were renting off of hasn't paid the mortgage so it's being forclosed on. So I had to go and get my wedding album, and dress and flowers and things I don't want to look at right now, but have no choice. I'm not going through any of it right this second, but the album has a pic right on the front of us, and I know what's in there, I can't bear to look at it.

Okay, well this attitude thing I had going on got offtrack, sorry....my point is still going to have to say yes, the games are worth it, anything is worth it.

Yeah, he's a cake-eater at present, and I pray with my entire soul that Mortar is right, that he'll miss the things he can't get from her.

-Caren

I would like to second the notion that Plan A and MB principles are not 'games' to get the WS back. And to be honest, I think the manipulative aspect of it all is one factor which leads to false recoveries. Too many people think that if they just stick to the plans for a while, then WS/BS will come back, and everything will be hunky-dory.....you see this on both sides of the M.

In my opinion, plan A, meeting ENs, identifying/eliminating LBs, etc are designed to 'motivate' the BS and/or WS into exploring themselves and their M. However, too often, I see on this board, people (BS and WS alike) using these ideas as a way to 'manipulate' their S back into the M.....and in the beginning of my recovery, I was not totally innocent either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But what I have realized is that true recovery comes with a release of self pride, true introspection into yourself and your own weaknesses, and your ability to identify a healthy way to cope.

Sure, it's easy to eliminate LBs, to meet your S's top 3 ENs, to 'be nice'. What it's not easy to do is to understand why you let those behaviors slide in the first place, and then realize how to integrate these healthy behaviors into yourself in a permanent fashion. And this goes for the WS as well as the BS.

IMVHO, MB principles are designed to serve as a 'springboard' of sorts into the deeper levels of exploring oneself, bettering oneself, and learning to love in a more healthy way. And anyone who interprets the principles as 'games' to get the WS/BS back need to think about delving a little deeper into themselves.

Rebuilding a M after an A takes building trust on both sides.....and a superficial change will only betray that trust again in the future. The changes must be made from the heart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know what to do about that except SF....don't want it with anyone else.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have developed “sperm competition syndrome” and appear very hyper sexual. In a sense your brain chemistry is similar to that of your H and the OW. However, the two of you got there for differently. H has addiction to OW and you have addiction to your H. As a sufferer of “sperm competition syndrome” I can tell you that it is quite hard to control the desire for SF. I have never been a wayward spouse, but I suspect they developed the same symptoms towards the OP. It does not matter that you have a tight belly and that she OW is flabby. At this point those things don,t matter at all.

So you see------- you have a formidable task ahead of you.

There are two possible ways for you to come ahead:

1. You tell OH you are done with him and go plan B. In time he will miss what you provided and he may come back.

2. OR the affair with OW will simply run it's course. Almost all of them do, but you may have to wait a couple of years. By them you may have fallen out of love and want a divorce. I have seen this scenario here many times.

I think LIT has it right, and IMHO recovery is this:
being OK with yourself, loving yourself and accepting yourself--knowledge of your part in your M not being up to its potential, understanding of why and doing better now in those areas even if not married. Not feeling that you MUST stay M and that your M must be repaired.

Some of the biggest lessons I was brought to the precipice of learning in the whole A experience are that you only control yourself, happiness is within YOU, not outer circumstances, you CAN choose peace. I don't know that I would have ever come close to searching for the answers in these lessons if it were not for the excruciating pain, powerlessness and heartbreak of my H's A. It "broke" me--in a good way. I was overconfident, a bit oblivious and not doing my best each day--in my M and other parts of my life. I think maybe I had to be brought to my knees to get it. I thought I had my H's devotion and fidelity no matter what I did, I thought I had it all figured out since any time I had a problem, I found a solution and made it happen. I forgot that God needs to be my number one, I need to relax and go with the flow of life, I need to remember that I just need to be fully conscious and in the now and do my best. I will ALWAYS be OK and even happy if I do that.

I did two Plan B's--one a lot less than perfect, the second much better. Once I really concentrated on ME and bettering myself for my God, for myself and my D, NOT H or my M, things got a lot better.

Put your WH out of the picture. Yes, pretend he is dead and start learning the lessons YOU need to learn.

Caren, you are going to be just fine. You are strong and that has gotten you a lot in this life, probably one of the things your H loved about you. But we can't always control things and make things change---let go.

I know I make it sound easy, it is not, especially for some of us, but I say from experience, you can do it.

Get some good spiritual reading, self improvement stuff and do that. Don't know anything about your H, who he blames, what the OW is doing etc. Start being in the now and living for you.

I hope this makes sense. I have been there, I know this stuff can be crazy making, but only as crazy as you let it!

Caren,

Shoot, didn't read all your responses or the direction this is going but....

Game playing, talk about annoying. Is it worth it ... I think in the beginning yes, at least you think it is. Later, no.

.

Went to my Former Home and got some things last night, that knocked me for a loop, I got my box of wedding stuff, a lot of the boxes have pictures....my whole f-ing life is laid out in my kitchen in boxes, I've been crying all night and all day today. I didn't talk to WH last night other than when I was picking up the stuff (He's moving) but I called him today to ask him where our file box was,

he said "I took it home, why? What's in there?"

I said "I'm not sure, I just didn't see it, and I wondered what happened to it"

He said "Well there's nothing in there except tax stuff."

I said "No, I know there are more records than that in there"

He said "No there's not, why should YOU have it?"

I said "I don't know"

He said "OH, by the way, I called H & R Block, and I can file by myself as you and the girls lived with me for at least 6 months out of last year"

I said "What?"

He apparently has his W2's (mine haven't come yet), and wants to go and file without me.

I started crying, I hate it when I do that.

I said "What, are you trying to [censored] me out of my tax return too?"

He didn't say anything I said "I'm so tired of getting f*cked over, I can't talk to you anymore, and hung up."

I just called H & R Block and they said he can't file single head of household because it's been less than 6 months, and that he was probably just trying to screw me out of money, that he may be able to slide it by but as soon as I filed that IRS would nail him.

I just called him, and told him what they said (BTW, at no time did I yell I was just so hurt, I was crying).

He said "Well that's not what they told me"

I said "They asked if we were legally separated and I said no, so they said 'no he has to either file with you or go married filing separately'"

Then I said "So are you filing without me?"

He said "No Caren, I'll call you back, my Mom is on the other line"

I said "okay, bye"

I don't understand the need to hurt me further....what did I do? He's balking at my filing for child support, acting like if I do that I better not fight him when he files for divorce......trying to screw me out of my income tax return...I don't get it, he just keeps piling insult to injury. He refused to give me the $25 a week that he has been giving me this week, said "I don't have any money....and you just got paid"

I don't see where that's relevant, but my paycheck was only $130. (I've been on leave, and it didn't kick in yet)

The 'games' will be worth it, if the desired outcome is achieved.

I don't even know what to say, this roller coaster sucks...I want my money back.

I don't understand any of this, and I've been trying so hard to put God first, asked him to help me be a better mother/christian/wife, but I'm so riddled with pain I can barely stand it.

I also talked to the stupid OW's employer, I sent them an exposure letter, I talked to the woman and she said "We were not going to respond at this time, we believe it's a personal matter"....which is fine, I was prepared for them to say that, but hey at least they know what a fricken skank they have managing that store, and I'm sure they have to keep it in her file....so whatever.

This is such unbelievable BS, I have stacks.....STACKS now, not just a few cards that my WH has bought me for every holiday...mother's day, valentines day, sweetest day telling me how much he loved me and how much our marriage meant to him....blah blah....he apparently has fricken amnesia.

I can't stand this....I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. I don't know what else to do though, I don't understand how I'm supposed to get past all this pain and only improve myself for me, I mean I have been fixing the things about myself I know weren't right, i.e. keeping the house clean....he's only here maybe 1 day out of the week to see our daughter, and I clean the house everyday regardless. I'm sure he's noticed it's always clean, but it doesn't make me feel any better.

This is so disheartening...and I know I'm supposed to give it to God, and I assure you I'm trying....but it lands squarely back on my chest everytime I turn around....this is the most horrific thing I've ever been through. I don't know how much more my heart can take. I feel fantastic one day, when it feels like I'm in the groove, and then other days I feel like this....completely hopeless.

I HATE that I cried with him on the phone....I am so mad at myself, but I am having a lot of trouble controlling that.

I see people talk about MC and date nights, and I think "I can't even bring up MC or he flips on me and says he doesn't want to be married anymore .... blah blah blah."

I can't sleep, I can't eat, even when I do manage to fall asleep for a little while, the thoughts of all of this are spinning in my mind...I can't really control my subconsious...that'd be nice though.

-Caren

this is just my opinion but. i consider "the games" as the sh*t they pull on us like the little i can file alone bit, that is the games that need to be refered the mb principles as said earlier are not games but tools to make US better not to cut corners to get them back. i myself have came to the conclusion that no there games are not worth it, im fed up w/her bull sh i myself am DONE tw lawyer last week as long as we can come to an agreement my d will be final 2-17. i have felt all the pain of a lifetime in 6 mos and used the principles here and am quite content at this moment w/myself. i dont need her to survive and have accepted the fact that i am now a better person with or w/out her. and my conclusion is im happier now when i filter out the games and drama.

i know here come 2x4's. just my opinion

how with children would you be able to be done so fast Dalson? Didn't you just file? Are you sure you want to rush it?

Caren you need to go see a lawyer -and get support for your children. He is using his -your money for his needs and not his childrens. Go to welfare or something. Womans crissis center -ther has to be someplace for you. He is an [censored] -why would you want someone whop puts his children last -they need to be taken care of. You are not alone Caren - you will make it. Do what you have to do for the children and your peace of mind.

To answer the question about is winning WS back worth all the games????

I would have to say NO. If the WS shows that he is willing to save the marriage then maybe I would say yes, but if the WS is like mine I would have to say NO...NO...NO!
I'm personally tired of playing games to get the person I love to love me back. If it doesn't come natually from him then it's time for me to move on.

Life is too short to be miserable!!!

Is it a game? I just don't know. A game shouldn't hurt this badly.

Reading through all the posts make me sad and mad. I'm working away on Plan A To fix habits that we slid into in part because he ignored me so much. The house became a stye when I had no help and no positive feedback. I stopped being so interested in his work because he was always there. Hard to admire a man who doesn't spend time with his kids and has no other outside interests besides work. It does pay well and I appreciate that. (And tell him that and that I'd be happy with more him) When I was never complimented or treated in a womanly fashion, I let appearances slip.

Gosh, I guess I was the one who was suppose to have the affair but wouldn't. Oh right, I was a WW 20 years ago but came to my senses. Shudder, I'm glad it wasn't me this time.

Arrrrgh, I typed a big bunch of stuff and just somehow deleted it....that sucks...LOL

Oh well, I was just rambling anyway.....defending my WH for the Child Support thing, I don't know why I feel the need to defend him anyway.....guess I still want to protect him, he just doesn't care if I live or die.

-Caren

Hey what do you guys think of me getting one of those collage picture frames and putting family pics in it as a 'housewarming' gift for my WH? I will exclude pics of myself and him, as he probably wouldn't want to sit that out, or maybe I could get 2 frames, and have 1 that has pictures of us also. (I don't really have too many that are of both of us and the kids, as one of us had to be taking the pics).

I figure that could be a little reminder of us, even while he's at his new place. I am having copies made, not giving him the originals.

Hey, something else, I got WH a card before I moved out talking about how I understood he needed some time and all that stuff, anyway, point of the story is......he's not all that sentimental, I watched him throw out all his Christmas cards, but he's hanging on to that card....wonder why that is?

Maybe he just hasn't gotten around to throwing it out yet....but I think it's something more than that.

So, what do ya think?

-Caren

Caren,

I would say he is hanging on to that card for a reason. Otherwise he would have thrown it out with the rest. Especially if he is not that sentimental. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />