I don't think that if you fix the things that allowed the affair to happen that it means the WS will feel they can cheat again.

My WH has had an affair before, and it did end by him telling me and he immediately broke it off with her (I don't usually include this because he started seeing her while we were separated, and just didn't stop once we got back together...still an affair I realize, but it didn't come so out of left field). My point in saying this is, this makes #2 for my WH.....6 years between them, but we never "FIXED" anything the first time, we just buried it and went on......I believe this most likely led to the current affair....I didn't realize that there had to be unmet EN's for an affair to be possible. We went to MC for about 2 weeks, and then I was done with it...MC that is, I didn't want to keep rehashing it....in retrospect I should have. I won't make this mistake again.

I believe with all my heart that my WH still loves me, he is confused...yes, hurtful....a lot, but I still see a glimmer of the man I married in there....and I'm going to fight like hell to get him back.

-Caren

Low,

My choice was to leave him or lower my standard.

That seems to be the same set of choices you suggest.

I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about.

Are you saying that I have a choice to see my lower standards as a good thing?

Please clarify.

Noodle

I have been reading thread with compassion for all. I am FWW & had been married & committed to H for 25 years. No problems that we couldnt handle. I had no idea I was so vulnerable until OM & I became "friends." I too was the judge & jury on others I heard had A. Now it is me. I have been humbled to the point of never judging anyone for anything anymore. I am a sinner, I am grateful my H understood me enough to know that I was weak. We have repaired our M-but it is permanently scarred forever. I ask daily for forgiveness, not from God-He saved me-but from myself. I recognize in some ways I am still going thru withdrawal for OM & the friendship we had. It is not easy to admit. In some ways I know I am still weak-& that scares me...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My choice was to leave him or lower my standard.

That seems to be the same set of choices you suggest.

I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about.

Are you saying that I have a choice to see my lower standards as a good thing?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">noodle, first of all, we aren't disagreeing about anything. The way you have describe your situation seemed so bleek that I was hoping to help you see that it doesn't have to be this way. I wanted to help you...

You miss my point entirely...
You are convinced that you had to lower your standards. I'd like to suggest that you didn't. I'd like to suggest that you chose to re-evaluate your response to violation of your standards in light of reality and practicality. I'd like to suggest that perhaps you had established an overly rigid response to that standard to start out with.

You see, what you are calling a standard is, in fact, a combination of your standard AND your expected response to it's violation.

I like you to see that you can still have the standard of "Infidelity is unacceptable" without locking yourself into "mandatory sentencing guidelines".

You have a choice of how you will respond to it's violation. You have a choice to evaluate the circumstance and salvagability of the relationship. You are not LOCKED into any specific response to violation of your standard.

Surely, as others have pointed out, there must be consequences when the standard is violated. It would be foolish to re-enter the relationship without insisting on appropriate behavior changes.

You didn't leave your marriage because, inside, you knew it wasn't the best thing to do. You responded in a way that would ensure the most positive outcome for everyone. Is this not respectable? Sometimes the path we SAY we would take is not the best path once we're faced with the situation. There is no shame in admitting that and changing our course. We make statements like that in our youth because we don't see the entire picture.

It is foolish to continue down a path just because you said you would even when you know it's not the right thing to do.

There is wisdom in knowing when to change and when not to.

I wish you peace, noodle

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
As much as I hate to accept it..this sets a precedent. Not just for him, but for me as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Surviving any bad event does set a different standard. A new precedent.

My old precedent pre-affair was based on my inexperience with infidelity. I had an opinion about something I had not yet experienced.

Not so much during the experience, but after surviving the experience, my precedents have been altered. Good for me.

I did not lower my standards, I raised them. I raised MY standards for myself. The only standards I have power over.

One standard I raised for myself was owning my own stuff. My baggage was heavy pre-affair and post affair I changed some elemental things about myself that were no longer effective and no longer attractive... to me about me.

One pre affair precedent that I held which needed post affair alterations was my definition of forgiveness. I had to find a way to forgive with inner peace. This challenged me to forgo a part of my pridefulness. This was the most difficult thing I had ever done. It took me more than 2.5 years to get it right.

The standards for myself were not lowered, but were, in fact, raised.

I was challenged to change my standards for my own marital conflict avoidance, particularly in the area of my husband's drinking. What was tolerated became intollerable and was faced head on and without fear. A new standard for me.

Yes.... the infidelity backlash did change my standards.... but I do not "hate to accept it" .... I am rather pleased with how I turned out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I'm willing to admit a lowering of standards about infidelity...and not being happy about that. That's honest....I'm never going to be happy about the fact that my marriage has not been exclusive and faithful.

However, I'm also willing to admit that my standards about the health of my marriage were probably not high enough. Don't mistake what this means...my marriage was happy. I was a good person and a good wife. We were not troubled or incompatible. We didn't have sexual problems. We enjoyed spending time together. BUT if failed to realize how there was an unhealthy balance of power in that relationship. There were external stresses....separations, opportunities, etc that came along with his job. I endured those things and I shouldn't have. So in essence....I had low standards about what I expected his commitment to this family should be. I was so focussed on the no-infidelity/morality standard....that I may have missed raising the bar high enough of other standards.

The end result is that even though I had to lower that absolute standard "I'll never be married to a cheater"....I've raised other standards that have become more meaningful and are more likely to make sure that the infidelity standard won't fall any lower. Losses and gains. I am sad for loss...happy for the gains....and comfortable with my decision. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yeah, what Star* said.... that's what I meant too.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Losses and gains. I am sad for loss...happy for the gains....and comfortable with my decision. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love and agree with this statement SO MUCH that I'm going to try to copy it onto my signature line. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />