I can't stop obsessing about the things that have gone on - what my wife was doing, what I did that would create the need for her to do it, what wen on when they were together, how I can change myself, how I'm going to take care of everything....How long (on an average) does this stage last? AAAARRRRRRRGGGGG!

tanelornpete,

The thoughts are the thing that hunts the most about an affair. I am 1 year and months past D-day and still have those thoughts. I would say it depends on every person. As far as I know (take it from a newbie) the thoughts fade with time but will always be there. In my personal experience as I said I still think about it but the difference is that they are not as painful as they were before. If you and your wife are commited to make it work, share your feelings with her. Tell her that you need her support when that happens. Ask her to pamper you. My FWW does that and it got better little by little. If she is not ready to do that take a notebook and write what you are feeling in that moment. You can also come to MB and vent. But do not bury them. You need to feel them in order to process the pain. I am not going to say that everything is O.K. with my FWW. We are still dealing with a lot of issues in our M. But the thoughts are less painful than before. Be patient.

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: janei ]</small>

T,

Please read the link in my sig line about the 5 stages of grieving. What you are feelng is quite common..... you have been left in the dark on sooo much yet have had to endure it with blinders on. No wonder you are frustrated, hurt, angry and confused. Try walking in a boxed room with no light, obstacles coming at you from the floor, ceiling and all sides... You never know which way is safe or which way is towards the door.... you can't see anything....yet you have to keep moving to stay alive, horrible horrible noises (fog babble) keep screaming in your ears. You clutch on tightly to your children and fear that if you lose your balance for even a moment.... you will fall and no one will be there to help you up. That loud jeering noises (more fog babble) is now piercing your soul..... any of this sound familar?

That was the gist of the nightmare that I had for 3 weeks. Each night the same one with an added scene or 2. It was horrible. I would post here, go to bed exhausted, dream all night (or at least it felt that way), then get up early the next morning and the same routine happened all over again. On top of that work, family, $$ issues, still happened....then there was the WS and OP....that A in my face.

It was a horrible time. Went on for 3 years. Very draining. But also it became a growing experience for me. I learned to strengthen my resolve, I got my mojo back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I took control of me, made self improvements, accept valid harsh criticism, made changes and moved forward. For it now I am a better person, mother, W, worker, neighbor, daughter, relative, friend, etc. Not great or perfect, just better. That's enough for me right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You w/b also (except not the girlie part - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care,
L.

This isn't a question at all, just a rant or something. I am so sad right now. I've just had a great day conversing with my wife - no fighting, no bad 'vibes', just basic small talk. But yesterday was our anniversary, and I've been sitting here missing her so much it hurts. We used to always make love on our Annivesary night - last night, I went to bed alone - and she had a friend over.

I don't know why this hurts so much - except that the fact that she has friends over constantly is one of her main LBs for me - I know she doesn't really know that (doesn't want to talk about our problems); but it still feels like I got beaten up and I still have to go on, trying to be the man she would love to love, hoping for a better future.

This is so hard!

David

T,

That is why you need to complete your plan A so that your improvements are set and you can move forward.

Is she rejecting you? WS is, your wife wouldn't, right?

Ok, plan how you will act with she is the WS vs when she is your W.

I am sorry about your anniversary. That was totally uncalled for from sane people but acceptable in the fog.

WS' like to inflict pain on the BS (probably gonna get flamed for that statement but more true than false). Given that knowledge, the BS can learn to protect him/herself.

Ok. How do you plan to do so?

L.

Hi Orchid.....

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is why you need to complete your plan A so that your improvements are set and you can move forward.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just got back from an appt with my IC - couldn't have happened at a better time. IC is very familiar with MB and how it all works, helped me thru some tough decisions. She helped me get my plan A more solidified (I was stalling because I don't want to go to plan B - EVER - heh heh) Anyway, she pointed out how much I've changed over the past months, and that is what I need to concentrate on - basic common sense stuff.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is she rejecting you? WS is, your wife wouldn't, right? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah - it's the fog doing it's best to hurt, not my wife. Wife loved the flowers I got her. WS said "Let's ruin his evening."

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, plan how you will act with she is the WS vs when she is your W. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To be honest, I'm not sure how I will act, other than do my very best to avoid any LBs and remain cheerful and let her throw her tantrums.

<strong>[quoite]WS' like to inflict pain on the BS (probably gonna get flamed for that statement but more true than false). Given that knowledge, the BS can learn to protect him/herself. </strong>[/quote]

No flames from me. WS has rewritten history - why wouldn't she do whatever it took to punish the bad guy I suddenly became? It's keeping that knowledge in my thick head while the awful stuff is coming out of the woman I am crazy about that is the hard part...

Thanks

David

{{{tanelornpete}}}}}

Things will get better!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TreeReich*:
<strong> {{{tanelornpete}}}}}

Things will get better! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much!

Here's a little humor to add to the situation: All this time, in my profile, etc, I've had us as married 17 years. Turns out I missed a year - it was 18 this year. Not only that, but DS16 is real DS17...heh heh. Better change that profile.

No wonder WS hates me!

Is it a common practice for WS's to have friends advise them on ways to keep things secret, on how to avoid being caught? My wife asked me tonight if I have a keystroke logger on her computer. I told her that I didn't because I didn't think she had anything to hide. She said she had never heard of one till someone told her to check for it.

I asked her who would bring that up - she said 'that's not important' (I don't think she realizes exactly how important that is - someone is helping her hide an affair, and it could be anyone of her friends that I know....)

I suppose it could be the OM, but I suspect one of her other friends - I guess I'm still wondering just where this thing is headed. I know she was doing the 'marriage history revision' thing with her school friends, but I'm wondering how far they are willing to go to cause destruction.

Kind of unnerving. Even if we manage to work this out, there's no way on the face of this planet that I will ever trust any of her closest friends! I guess the Fog is denser than I thought.

She's still in contact with him. Found out this morning. Guess I have to confront her again, except that the only way I know of this is by looking at the text messages on her phone - and she is still furious with me for snooping in the first place - that's still her number one offence/defence. It's not going to end.

Oh well. Plan A. Plan A. Plan A.

David

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tanelornpete:
she is still furious with me</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her anger is not your problem. She owns it. Do not accept responsibility for her anger. Do not judge her anger. Do not try to fix her anger for her. It's an emotion she feels, not a fact about you. Do not allow her anger to derail your Plan A.

Confront without LBing.

Expose as widely as necessary, again without LBing.

Offer to do the usual thoughtful things for her.

Leave the house for a break if you get too upset.

Have a joyful day anyway in spite of her angry reaction to the consequences she earns by her choices .... because being joyful is your right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Good morning Pepperband!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her anger is not your problem. She owns it. Do not accept responsibility for her anger. Do not judge her anger. Do not try to fix her anger for her. It's an emotion she feels, not a fact about you. Do not allow her anger to derail your Plan A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anger is her number one emotion: it has been our entire marriage. I know it's a secondary emotion, that another one precedes it; I thought, when I married her, that I could help her calm down, lose the fear, or resentment, or whatever was behind that anger. But all I did was interfere, pester her to calm down, nag her to 'look at things rationally' - you name it, I nagged her about being angry till I started getting angry. Then we fought. And then we shut down. And then I had an EA. WHen she found out....more anger. Three years of it so far. Now she's having an affair. And I confronted her with it. By 'invading her privacy'.

I have been working for months now to halt ALL my LBs (not entirely successful, of course), but so much better than I ever did anything else right before. I've worked hard to learn and fill her ENs - as much as she'll allow.

It's not that I'm trying to own her anger. It's just that for almost 20 years, I've been hit with it, for everything, justified or not.

But I'm still checking on her. And I feel guilty for that. And she knows that, and can use that as a major weapon to hurt me again. And it's getting to where that pain is harder to bear than I am - maybe willing to take.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Confront without LBing.

Expose as widely as necessary, again without LBing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no one to expost to: apparently all of her friends are behind her, even if the thing with the OM does not work out - it would be great practice for law students to do an actual divorce. Her parents are angry at her, but I don't know how far to get the IL involved.

Of course, I'm going to keep doing the everthing I can to make her feel wanted and welcome in our house.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have a joyful day anyway in spite of her angry reaction to the consequences she earns by her choices .... because being joyful is your right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right. It's a great day to be alive, I'm doing better than I ever have. I guess it was just a hard, hard night last night, and waking up this morning to find out more was just another kick in the.....head.
David

If you stop reacting to her anger with ATTENTION of any kind, eventually that habitual anger response of hers will be extinguished from lack of use.

When she gets angry or abusive in your face or on the phone, say: "I see (hear) you are feeling angry right now. Is there anything I can do RIGHT NOW that will comfort you?" "No? OK. Let me know when there is a way for me to comfort you, and I will gladly discuss your needs."

Then LEAVE the room, the building, the neighborhood... depending on if she follows you trying to argue.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> If you stop reacting to her anger with ATTENTION of any kind, eventually that habitual anger response of hers will be extinguished from lack of use.

When she gets angry or abusive in your face or on the phone, say: "I see (hear) you are feeling angry right now. Is there anything I can do RIGHT NOW that will comfort you?" "No? OK. Let me know when there is a way for me to comfort you, and I will gladly discuss your needs."

Then LEAVE the room, the building, the neighborhood... depending on if she follows you trying to argue.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Geez, why didn't you tell me that 18 years ago? Actually, I know what she'll say: 'Yes, get out of my life,' or 'quit invading my privacy and I'll feel comfortable,' but I get your meaning...

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Because you didn't ask!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I know what she'll say: 'Yes, get out of my life,' or 'quit invading my privacy and I'll feel comfortable,' but I get your meaning...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's goooood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your answer: (soft voice and soft face) "I'll be back later."

Leave as described.

Pep

PS....

When you begin to do this ... be prepared for her to AMP UP her anger bait.

It WILL become worse for awhile.

But do not let that discourage you. In fact, take her increased anger as a sign that you are effective in your plan.

Just do not bite no matter what. As soon as you bite, she is re-conditioned to revert to her habitual defensive behavior.

Teflon coating around you .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Okay, I know this is qetting ridiculous, that I am so upset about this ting that I'm in my own fog, or whatever, but can anyone explain this:

My W just informed me that she is going to attend a 'Formal' - some sort of function at her school. She is going with another guy - she said she chose him especially because he is NOT the OM, and she is not going to have any affair with him.

But she went out and bought the sexiest black, virtually see thru underwear I've ever seen just for this occaision. She said she needed something nice to wear with her dress. I can understand a nice dress, but she already has nice underwear - why the need for this?

Am I reading too much into this, is this a female thing? I suppose I am just reading too much into it, although she just hid it while I was out of the room. Makes sense, heh?

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

By the way - thanks for the great advice pepper....very encouraging....

David -

Your W is going to a 'formal' with another guy?

Why?

I would ask her why isn't she taking you.