Last summer I became aware my wife was a little too close to a male she knew from my son's class. In the weeks that followed evidence of bad things came puring in. First very high cell phone usage. Second a note on her PC very suggestive of an affair - a PS on it said to destroy the letter. I confronted her with this and she started crying saying he was just a friend and the letter was never meant to be sent and written during a bad time in her life.

Now I realize things weren't as good as they could be. My big wrong - drinking. I was functional - good employement, take kids to activities, house upkeep, etc. But when stuff was done and I had idle time I just started popping open the beers non stop. I stopped that just a couple weeks shy of my discovery, and have been completely sober for about 7 months now.

Now applying some logic (where would she get the time), and the trust I had in my wife, I concluded there was nothing physical, but rather this was an emmotional connection. She admitted sharing problems with each others marriages. I told her I didn't like it one bit. SHe cried that he was her only friend and went through a list of whats happened to her more traditional friends. I felt bad for her and gave her a tentitive ok to continue but open things up. We tried breakfast with them (him and family) after church, but the cell phone usage continued, he never called our house, and finally I dicover my wife was using a phone card to call him. With that level of cover up I can be sure there were plenty of calls from her job as well.

It was overwhelming to me. When I talked to her about she acted insulted, called me paranoid, etc. One day just before Christmas, of all times, I talked to this guys wife about it. Of course she knew nothing about it and was wondering herself how this friend of her husband (my wife) came to be. Of course she told her husband and in less than 12 hours my wife was on the warpath telling me our marriage is over.

Its been over a month and she is still buring mad about it. She is still living with me and sharing our bed. Other than a kiss hello and goodbye (and not much of a kiss either) there is no physical contact. We can sit in the same room for hours and not talk to each other. Any conversation seems to center on household or child issues. SHe refuses any marriage counseling and me involving our priest in it just made her angrier (if that was possible). She says shes here for the kids. I honestly love her and shes told me she believes that. She then told me she can no longer open her heart to me. She seems more worried about the damage done to their relationship and puts all blame on me.

I don't know how to even start to defuse this tension. I try to make small talk, but she shuts it down. Is there any hope? What can I do? It looks like I have to take matters into my own hands here.

I hate to break the news to you but your W is suffering from withdrawl. The sad truth my friend is that your W was in a fairly long term EA. She has come to crave that daily contact and the filling of whatever emotional void existed. When that was broken off it was just like taking away her drug. She's now in the FOG and no matter how you try to fill her love bank she isn't taking deposits. Ride it out in time the fog will lift and the bank will reopen. In the mean time try to arm yourself with all the wonderul tools that are provide on this site.

Are you familiar with plan A? Are you working it? This place can give you all the tools you need to save your M if it can be saved.

Your W is at home and it sure sounds like there is NC which are both excellent signs.

Hang in there and always remember that IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!

I agree with E, Mark.

It's a good idea to become very familiar with plan A..the REAL plan A and not the misuse of same.

Be prepared for plan B and set a timeline.

Your position right now is favorable..so use to your advantage your knowledge of the formulaic nature of addiction and withdrawl in relation to As both emotional and physical.

I'd go through a search for Bob Pure and read about his Plan A..he is very descriptive about his triumphs and struggles and this will probably make you laugh, cry, and give you perspective.

Best of luck,

Noodle

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

The contact thing is hard to avoid. They attend the same church and their kids are in the same class as ours. Add to that they are both on the school board. Last saturday my son was invited to a birthday party - guess who was there. Theres yet another birthday party next weekend and my wife has made clear her plans to take him. SHe doesn't know I know he was there and has a high potenial of being at next week's as well.

During Christmas his mother died. My wife went out of her way to send flowers 'from the school board' and even attended the wake breifly. I know this was eating her up since she couldn't effectively comfort him.

I want to talk about this with her but know she'll turn it around and say I'm attacking her. She's already said 'you're saying who my friends can be'. Yep, but this is the first time in over 17 years her choice in 'freinds' has become an issue.

There was this other underlying issue of her 'not being in love with me anymore' that I've been trying to combat since the summer. Funny how the I love you's stopped right around the time she got so aquanted with this guy.

She's also been depressed and qustioning her life for well over a year now. She didn't share the depths of this with me at all. Only a couple of weeks ago did she tell me she felt like a bad mother, daughter, sister, spouse, and nurse (her profession). She's also a very stuborn person who hasn't admitted a mistake in her entire life.

She's isolated herself from her family, she hasn't talked about what we are currently going through with any of her sisters. Her mother was brain damaged from a stroke a few years ago (coincidently the start of her depression). She has been seeing a therapist about it and I'm sure she talks about this episode as well. I just wonder if the words 'phone card' are ever used in describing this event. She doesn't seem to acknowledge she did anything wrong. I'm just some jealous, paranoid guy to her.

As for plan A - I first want to tell her what an emmotional affair is and how I believe she is in one. She's vitually text book. I'm just too affraid that I'll come across as confrontational.

Mark,

A lot of these issues are directly A related..so until you have effectively removed the A from the equation..you will gain no ground in attempts to address them.

Sounds like the entire structure of your M needs revamping..and the time to do this..is RECOVERY.

Not while she is still in this A and withdrawn from the M.

Plan A..

Probable Plan B if the changes you make in YOURSELF via plan A do not turn her heart to home..

Then..when and if she is willing and eager to reconcile..willing to do whatever it takes to make the marriage succeed...THEN is the time to discuss the changes that need to be made.

In the mean time..educate yourself..and seek pro M counsel.

Noodle

Mark,

Do not try to educate her regarding her emotional affair. At this point only educate yourself. She will definitely take offense at any attempts to educate her.

The tools to help you deal with this situation and form a strategy for saving your marriage are here on this site. Again, educate yourself. Learn about Plan A.

Wayward spouses are not rational beings. Don't try to make any sense out of what she says. Try as best as you can to meet her needs when she allows it but otherwise, back off and let her deal with it.

You were correct to expose the affair to others. This is also part of Plan A. Keep posting as to developments. There are many here who have been through this very painful situation and can give you good advice for how to deal with it.

Wow, Mark - you did pretty much the right things early on - especially contacting OM's wife. The only fly in the ointment was perhaps not being sensitive to the threat of continued contact.

This is a textbook case. All of her actions and reactions are right from the WS script.

I agree with the others so far, except for nood's Plan B recommendation. A Plan B opportunity doesn't look to be coming unless for some reason she moves out.

I strongly recommend you consider counseling (for yourself for now) with Steve Harley. He can guide you through the withdrawal process and set you up to begin recovery once withdrawal runs its course.

This would be the best money you ever spent.

In the meantime, read all you can about Plan A and continue looking for those things you brought to the poor marital environment that existed pre-A. Stay in touch - sorta - with OM's wife. Direct her here. Buy yourself and her a copy of Surviving An Affair. You will read about yourself in it.

Hi Mark - I'm a FWW that had an emotional affair. Her reactions are all quite textbook stuff.

No contact, no contact, no contact. That is the only way she's going to get over the withdrawal and get back to you and your marriage. Any sort of contact, however small, reinforces the notion in her mind that there is "hope" - that some how, some way, they are still connecting. And while that "hope" is still there, the EA is still going in my book.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. Are you in marriage counseling yet? How about yourself? I mean are you in counseling?

Both of us are individual counseling. She started couseling about a year ago to deal with some 'personal issues'. That was 'his' suggestion. I started counseling in July once I learned our problems and how in danger my marriage was. This was just before I discovered her secret.

My life wasn't all that bad until I told this guys wife. My wife wouldn't ever say she loved me, I fact she told me a few times she 'fell out of love with me'.

She refuses marriage counseling. Even my therapist says we stand a better chance on our own. Less than 15% of couples seeking counseling survive.

She doesn't even think her realtionship was wrong at all. She turns the blame for using a phone card on to me. I know how much you didn't like me talking to him so you forced me to use a phone card. She accepts no blame. She is just mad at me and continues to try and make my life as miserable as possible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MarkNY:
<strong>I know how much you didn't like me talking to him so you forced me to use a phone card. She accepts no blame.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!

The WS denial call!

Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah.

We've heard it all before.

Straight from the script.

Tell us more about what your counselor said. Does he/she know about the affair? What was the recommended course for you? I bet we conclude you need a new counselor.

She is in defensive mode and is playing the normal WS role. Do not take personally anything she says.

WAT

Mark,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She doesn't even think her realtionship was wrong at all. She turns the blame for using a phone card on to me. I know how much you didn't like me talking to him so you forced me to use a phone card. She accepts no blame. She is just mad at me and continues to try and make my life as miserable as possible.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is classic fog babble. I am constantly amazed at the frequency of this kind of talk. As I say, don't try to make any sense out of what she says or take it serious; it's babble. She feels guilty for what she has done because in her gut she knows that it was wrong. In order to avoid the guilt she will try to place the blame on you. They all do the same thing.

Do not initiate any kind of relationship discussion with her. It will only frustrate you and you will find it difficult to avoid lovebusting. If she initiates "serious talk" listen respectively, ask questions making sure that you have heard what she is telling you, even repeat the exact words back to her with no 'spin' or comment, just the exact words. Just try it and you'll see the wisdom of it.

She will continue to try and thwart your efforts to win her back but if you consistently show that you are interested in making the changes in yourself that contributed to the affair she may, notice I say MAY, begin to notice that you have changed.

Are you reading here and learning MB concepts?

To sum up my counselors advice:
First was determine if I wanted to stay - I want to and I'm sure 3 children want the same thing.
Then be the best person I can be. I have to straighten out myself and reestablish an identity. Substance abuse is part to blame and trying to mold myself into an image she should like is the other issue.

He also says I cannot control her so don't waste my time on that.

Might I also add my need for him is general physcotherapy, while he coincidently specializes in marriage counseling, my real need for him my own emmotional issues. Needless to say this eposode in my life has left depressed and anxious.

Mark,

You are doing very good and you did the correct thing by exposing this to the OM's wife. EA's can be very powerful. My own husband was in an EA for eight long years... I wish I would have had your tools early on. You did well, so don't worry. Everything that she's doing is very textbook, like WAT said.

I'm a bit concerned about the statement below from you counselor. This does not sound good. You may want to check with your counselor if he or she is pro-marriage because throwing around stats like the ones below are not going to give you hope and even make you want to work on your marriage.

You sound like you like to recover your marriage and build a better one in the process and you've already taken the appropriate steps (stopped drinking etc.). Can you pinpoint what your wife's EN's are and how you can best meet them?

She's in withdrawal right now and it's going to take a little while. I have confidence though that she's going to get better and give your marriage another try. Sounds like the OM is not really interested in a relationship with your wife, especially since he has his own... She's probably hurt and maybe even a bit angry at herself that she didn't succeed...

Take care
Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MarkNY:
[ Even my therapist says we stand a better chance on our own. Less than 15% of couples seeking counseling survive.

[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

As WAT stated it is important to try your best not to take to heart anything she is saying right now. I know easier said than done.

From personal experience I know that getting someone that has never heard of an EA to admit they are having one is near impossible. More importantly it's unnecissary at this point. My FWW and I argued over whether it was or wasn't an EA or even if there was such a thing until the EA became a PA. We bacame so hung up on the word A that we never got to the root of the problem and my pushing on the issue just added fuel to the fire.

In time if you can get her to reconnect with you she will see the error in her ways. Right now she is right, you are forcing her to do what is right. Oh well.

At some point there will have to be total NC and while you can't force this it sounds as though most of the chances for them to see each other are public enough you can butt right in. After all aren't most of their things together at this point school/child related? You're a concerned parent, take a more active role. Be there when you know he'll be there. Sure it will make her mad but in time you can break the cycle and get her to come to her own realization that what she is doing is inappropriate.

Your W is on the edge of a very slippery slope. You have to figure out a way to pull her back.

I've done the be there when he'll be there stuff. I can't do it all though. That is also part of what my wife calls 'not giving her space'. It also drove me crazy with anxiety. He's self employed has a local business and can break away for school activities during the day. I can't compete without risking my job.

I want to reach out to her, but don't know how. I want get to her before she just shuts down completely. I feel I'm under a time constraint now.

Here's my plan so far:
Just be there even if there's tension.
If she wants to talk I'll listen.
My conversation is limited to what's of household importance (and please pass the carrots).
She still cooks and does laundry so far.
The rings are off - not mine.
If she comes out and says she wants a divorce I'll just ask why.
If she walks out the door I'm well enquipted to tale care of the kids. Afterall its me who gets them on the bus every morning, checks their homework, bring them to most activities. All I got to add is cooking, laundry, and housework and I'm Mr Mom. People have always been in awe of how much I do with my kids. I am committed not to leaqve the house without anything short of a court order.

If it EVER came to this, do NOT leave the home. Let her leave. Do not EVER EVER leave your home, okay?

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MarkNY:
<strong> I am committed not to leaqve the house without anything short of a court order. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Mark:

You got very good advice from all posters on your thread. I too have been in your shoes and the cold hard facts were simple, my wife loved her BF more than she loved me and she was prepared to do whatever it took to protect her relationship. She lied to me and the kids everyday and it became easy for her to do so. That was never her style prior to her Affair.

We pretended like we were in recovery for 90 days after D-Day, but recovery really only started when she gave up ALL contact with the other man. Your wife will need to give it all up too. No church group meetings, no church or school boards, and no contact, period. She is probably madly in love with him today at the expense of her feelings for you.

THis can be reversed but it takes two people to make that happen. Do what was told you on this thread, pray, and don't give up hope.

TooSoon

It sounds as if the counselor is OK, although the line that kati quoted also got my attention.

Ask your counselor if he is familiar with the MB principles. His guidance so far is along the lines of Plan A. Good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MarkNY:
<strong>I want get to her before she just shuts down completely. I feel I'm under a time constraint now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, time is on your side. You already know WAY more about infidelity and its mechanisms than she does. This knowledge gives you power. Part of the available knowledge on this site will reveal to you that you cannot "get to her before she just shuts down completely."

She has to "get" to herself. She is distracted and now is the best time for you to correct those things you need to correct. Time stands still for her in her stupor so you're not wasting ANYTHING! Consider this as free time to resolve your issues. EVEN IF all your issues could instantly be resolved, you still could not make her time clock speed up. Patience is your strongest weapon.

WAT

Patience is hard for me. I've been patient since July and yet the contact keeps up. It does appear to have slowed since my Christmas disclosure to his wife. Her cell phone use has fallen to near nothing. But last Saturday's kiddy party put them together for an hour or so. Something I found though kind of suggests he encourage her to talk with friends about her problems, not him. I can't keep calling his wife, the poor woman. Me telling his wife was a big time love buster. I've never scene my wife so furious.

I'm also a bit unsure about these approaches. This is my marriage we're talking about here. What if I am wrong? What if this guy is just a friend and I'm delusional? I read 'His Needs/Her Needs' last summer, before my discovery. The book made logical sense. Other things I read about emotional affairs from other sources also make me conclude she's in one. Ever my therapist just says let her stew. I just have soem doubts.

She's been in this for just over a year now.

She's at school tonight (her masters degree), then she'll have to be to work right after. She'll be home after I leave for work. I considor this a good night for me - no tension. I cook dinner for the kids and my self, they got their lunches packed, are cleaning up and tomorrow morning I'll make sure they get off to school propperly fed and dressed. Then I zoom off to work. I'm getting better little by little. A month ago I couldn't even get out of bed I was so depressed.

But how much patience? When she's here I can't take the tension. I think I'm heeling but wonder if I'll hit another breaking point.

I guess I'm looking for some kind of magic wand to make things better quick.

Mark,

Your W’s situation is a classic example of how an opposite sex friendships can easily lead to a dangerous emotional attachments and EA’s if the spouse are not aware of the dangers and don't exert the caution that might be necessary or create the boundaries to make the marriages safe. I’m sorry you became a victim of your W’s infidelity and the pain & fear you must endure because of this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was involved in an inappropriate friendship and beginning of EA and I remember how scared my H was after he discovered the inappropriateness of my friendship... Like your W, I was also in denial for a long time and thought there was nothing wrong my ‘friendship’ with XOM. This MB website opened my eyes and made me aware of the dangers of opposite sex friendships, the existence of EA’s etc. A very good book on this subject is the book “Not Just Friends: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal” written by Shirley Glass.

It will be SO helpful if your W can read the book above... The book provides much insight and gives understanding of just what constitutes infidelity and why it happens. In this book, Shirley Glass also explains that ‘new’ infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love. This short article on emotional infidelity will also be helpful and explained most of what I’ve said so far. You know, I wish these type of information and books could be required reading before couples are allowed to marry for there would be less people unwittingly setting themselves up for affairs. Many times I’ve wished that I knew all these things before I became involved in a similar situation myself… Now that I’m aware of this and have learned my lesson the hard way, I’m SO aware and curious (sometimes overly aware) of people around me (especially in my workplace) who’re ‘good friends’ with the opposite sex and on ‘dangerous grounds’ without knowing or realizing it… I know you received advice from members not to try and teach your W right know, but maybe if you just print out that article and give it to your W, she will be willing to read it and be willing to read Shirley Glass’s book as well.

Your W is currently going through withdrawal from OM and she will only get pass this and start recovery with you if there is NO CONTACT with OM. Please read this quick start guide about WITHDRAWAL. It will be of much help and insight to you.

Keep posting and seek advice and support on this board. I believe there IS hope for you, your W and your M. Your M CAN heal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>