Also, read FYR's posts on FORMER GG's thread. She gives you an inside look into the mind of the WS and helps you understand how it is an addiction.

He is on the fence, trying to make a decision between you and her.

GIVE HIM TO HER, DYING!! LEAVE THEM ALONE WITH EACH OTHER!

Try not to make too much of his conversations with his friend. It could be all lies, DYING!!

Remember that he is STILL IN THE FOG!!!!

Post deleted by dyinghere

Post deleted by dyinghere

Post deleted by dyinghere

DYING?

Why are you listening to what he is saying after all I have told you?

He in a fog.

He is totally confused, temporarily insane, addicted to her.

He will not make logical sense.

I want you to stop listening to him. Stop repeating back to us what he is saying. It does not matter what he is saying. What he is saying will not make sense.

His actions are what matters. He has to have NC with the OW for 3 to 6 months before he goes through withdrawal. Until that time the fog will remain and he will not make sense.

You are wanting this to work too quickly. You are wanting an insane man, who may look like he's normal although he is an alien, to act rational.

YOUR ACTIONS HAVE TO SPEAK FOR YOU.

IF YOU WANT ANY CHANCE AT ALL FOR RECOVERING YOUR MARRIAGE, YOU HAVE TO DO PLAN B TODAY or TONIGHT considering what time it is there.

Also, this is the only way that you will get back on track for yourself......

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Post deleted by dyinghere

Just read this from faithinme

He probably has this utopian ideal of you both just being the best of friends, talking everyday, still sharing your lives with each other

Okay WH did not call me once last weekend when i was away for 3 days.

He left middle of the night Wed/Thurs and so far he called me last night to make sure i had his hotel phone number and he called again just now. Well last night i thought it was in case his dad got sick, he is poorly, and he wanted to make sure i had his number but now i dont know he was only on for a minute. He called my mobile from the hotel the conversation was sweetness and light butter would really melt in my mouth.

His mind is definitly on planet ZOD!
I think WH follows faithinmes statement exactly.

HELP BUMP

The letter needs to include your PLAN B Conditions for Recovery such as NO CONTACT LETTER mailed to her, etc.

BUMP

Post deleted by dyinghere

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I need some sound marriage advise.


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<small>[ February 11, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: dyinghere ]</small>

DyingHere – First off, let me tell you I am so very sorry for the pain you are in and what you are going through right now. I wanted to touch on a couple of things with you real quick.

You said “So now i know for a fact he has told her it is over…”

OK, he can tell her, you, and the entire world it is over, but his actions do not show it. No one needs that much time to say goodbye especially to an illicit relationship. If it was ‘over’ and he were ‘sure’. It would be over. No ifs, ands, or buts. This is a typical, typical game that WS’s play. Often it is to do two things – 1) Buy more time with our BS’s so they can keep on suffering while we ponder what really would make us the happiest 2) Check on the reaction of the OP because “hey, we want to see just how badly they want us”

I know. I’ve been there, done that. I had more goodbye scenes than multiple movies combined. WHEN A WS IS REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT – they don’t NEED a darn goodbye scene. The OP is owed NOTHING. As long as they continue to put the “feelings” of the OP (by the way, this is just another excuse) ahead of the BS’s – you have “won” nothing.

Also, another important lesson – although exposure, etc. can help some A’s come to their natural end (and trust me, they all end) more quickly – an A has a natural course to run..and I sure wouldn't want it running while my cheating spouse lived under my roof if I were you. Getting back a resentful, angry WS too early is NO prize! I’m not encouraging enabling the A to lengthen, but sadly…by some of your actions…or rather lack of action..that could be a potential unwanted realization.

Your WH lost the right to dictate when and how his relationship with the OP ended the moment he broke his marriage vows. If you want him to respect you, then demand (without LB’s) the respect you are rightfully due. It is HIGHLY unattractive to WS’s to have a ‘sure thing’ sitting at home while we are out ‘playing teenage love god’ again. It is unfair! I agree 100%. All I can tell you is what is fair is not happening here and won’t if you leave it up to your WH. WS’s will always look at you as 2nd best if you continue to let us treat you like that.

You want your WH back ready, willing, and yes..even broken (broken as in the fantasy is gone..and the first glimmer of reality is beginning to hit). I can’t remember if you have kids or not, but would you want a child of yours to tolerate what you are tolerating?

To be blatantly honest, even under good circumstances in which the WS has willingly sent the NC letter, has shown a spark of remorse, etc. – they will still be in withdrawal! Yes, they WILL be drawn back again..and sometimes again and again. BUT, that doesn’t mean all WS’s act on it! When I say ‘drawn back’…I’m talking about the desire for the high of the A…thinking that they are missing out on being with their own true soul-mate because they had to give them up….because..SIGH..it was the “right” thing to do, wasn’t it?

I don’t know your entire situation, but the whole working together thing is one of the hardest conditions to recover under from what I’ve seen. I’m not saying it can’t be done because I have watched it be done on these boards – it just further complicates an issue that is already hard enough. Contact, even visually…can start those “pangs” in the WS’s heart again.

He seems to be doing more talking about ending the relationship than ‘doing it’. Again, this is because he doesn’t have to. I do not want in any way to add one more twinge of pain to the amount you are already in, but I am being harsher with you here than normal because I do care..and I want to see you do well!

Personally, I would NOT take him back without a plan and some evidence that he is ready. He doesn’t get to dictate the terms, you do. WS’s are always miraculously attentive if we sense you actually MEAN BUSINESS and are ready to move on with or without us!!! Listen to Mimi!! She has been where you are..doing the same things that you are doing. Let her experience with the mistakes she made save you from committing the same ones!

Regarding your question about why has he finished it if he still loves her? Because he is not done. He is feeling he HAS to do this, he does not yet truly want to do it. How do I know this? Because he has NOT once put you first and your feelings first in the discussions he has shared. WS’s think that the BS’s should be just all excited and happy that we have finally deigned to choose to come back to them. Sigh..poor us…poor WS’s being forced to get back with our BS’s instead of being truly happy.

Heck..forget that! WS’s don’t have the sense that God gave a goat! Please, their feelings are a lie…they won’t even realize that sometimes until months after no contact. Please remove the decision for what happens to you from your WH’s hands. It is like letting a raging drunk drive you across town. You wouldn’t get in the car with someone who was too drunk to drive would you? Then why are you?? WS’s should NOT be trusted until they have earned that right again. They gave that up when they broke their vows. Sweetie..I know it hurts..but you already lost the H you thought you had…don’t accept this alien in his place. Stand up for what you deserve…trust me..the WS will secretly admire you for this.

Regarding his pride…well, now that is just too darn bad. What about yours? Sure, I’m prideful also..and having to accept certain dictates by my BS smarted…and made me really really mad. Guess what…too bad for me also. If I wanted to hold onto my pride, my honor, my trust, etc., then maybe I should have filed for divorce instead of hopping into bed with another man, no matter what my reasoning (or blatant lack of it) was. He will continue on as long as he can get away with it. Honestly, I can’t speak for total MB principles (I’ve got some of them down, but not all of them)..I would SHOVE THOSE 2 together and let them just see each other’s true colors.

Um, by the way…this statement about how “if he wanted to stay with the OW, no one could stop him”..well, technically..that is right…unless we hog tie all WS’s..they can do that. Your power though comes from the fact that his choice..has a consequence..if you are willing to bestow one. You are worth more than this! Remember that! Don’t accept 2nd place or crumbs. If he says that to you again say “you are right..no one can stop you, but you also cannot stop me from going on with my life without you..have a nice life..you two deserve each other” OK. well that last part was a LB, but hey…..the rest was ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, you are being used right now. He has the best of both worlds..two women to meet his needs..and who are competing for the right to meet those needs. Ack. I agree with Mimi..watching the posts you have made…you need to do Plan B. If he is gone, I would have the locks changed and his stuff on the porch. I would present him with a confident, self-assured…”not gonna take this anymore” woman when he returns. You need to shift the power balance here. Take the reigns back from the OP and your WS.

DyingHere – I’m sure your WS does love you…I don’t want you to give up all hope…he just loves the addiction (not really the OP) more right now. You just need to show that you are ready to move on..with or without him. Please think about this and decide quickly. I will keep you in my prayers…

((((DyingHere))))

Best Regards,

FYR

DH,

Sorry you are feeling so down. Now I would like to ask you to step back, do the following and then consider some info:

1. Take 3 deep cleansing breathes.

2. You know what you need and you know what you want, yet you do just the opposite. Do you realize this?

3. Item 2 happens because your heart and mind are not in sync. As long as you stay in this condition, no plan will work.

4. Each time you contact him, think about the state of mind it leaves you in. Do you feel better or worse? If worse, what will you do the next time, there is contact. Do you see yourself handling it better, the same or worse?

5. You act as if you need contact. Yet this contact does you no good. It also gives him reason to keep up the contact with the OW. Do you realize that you are enabling the A?

Think about these points. Post back your thoughts. If you really want out of the rut you are in, we can work on a plan. It will take more moxi than you currently have put forth. But you do have what it takes. R U ready and willing?

L.

FYR and Orchid:

Thanks for posting to DYING HERE!

DYING HERE, listen to them!!!

Thank you FYR everything you said is exactly true. I i know he does not need time to say goodbye if its done its done, i know continued contact is keeping it on going. I dont want a resentfujl angry WS back. Etc etc etc

I agree with it all.

I am ready at last Mimi.

Orchid my heart and mind are one.

I am begining to actally feel replused at the though of seeing him again.

I have to re read FYR post again probably lots of times it is so true.

I will write the Plan B letter longhand then post.

A question should i tomorrow when WH comes home just give him the letter and wait for his reply or something else. I do believe as mimi keeps telling me that any more talking is useless.

He is not really ready to committe to me or our marriage he just feels well actually he feels nothing he has just had enough of his stress at the moment i do now believe he does not consider me at all.

I am at the point where i actually dont care if he comes back or not and this time i actually mean it.

Thank you all so much for your help i dont know where i would be without it.

It is 4 oclock here in the afternoon i ahve been running aroud all day with the kids.

It i going to be very late tonight when i will be able to manage to post again. I hope to have the letter done by then ready for tomorrow. Of course it will only be some of your evening then.

I am ready ready ready ready ready ready . I am scared but i am ready

Dying! Good for you! be ready.
Read the whole thread again, you have been given all sorts of good advice and the explanations you need to convince yourself. I hope you can really go to plan B for your own peace of mind. It is hard but it gets better and you soon have a new and calmer perspective of the situation and your own bounderies.
Good Luck!
cc

Here it is plan b letter used some of the ones poswted here to help

Dear WH

You know I love you and adore you with my heart, my mind and my body. The past few months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I experience on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. It has become evident that our marriage has suffered due to neglect by both of us. While striving to meet the needs of family, work and business we have missed each other’s needs.

Since September I have been trying to give you hope for the marriage by learning how to be a better wife to you. To give you hope that you could return to a marriage that you wanted, and for us to build our family together. But I cannot do this while your affair continues. I have waited patiently for this to end and it has been very difficult, and I am afraid that my stamina for this is waning. You have told me that it is over but you have told me so many things that were unture that I can no longer tell the difference. The only thing that shows the truth is your actions but this week even though you say it is over you have still been with OW. If it is over it is over no ifs, ands or buts you seem to be doing more talking about ending the relationship than ‘doing it’.

H as you know I am willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever though possible. With all my heart I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, cherished and honoured. I simply cannot continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with OW.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from her, have no contact including phones or texts and demonstrate it to me in a credible way I will be willing to discuss our future together.

You are right no one can stop you from doing something including wild horses, but you also cannot stop me from going on with my life with or without you.

You are my husband my best friend my lover the father of our children and I would like to think that you wanted to be all these things too.

If you want to tell me anything please let me know through my friend she will pass on any queries reguarding the children. Please call the children directly to speak to them.

<small>[ February 13, 2005, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: dyinghere ]</small>

sounds good to me, dying, but we better wait for the experienced people to wake up and give their approval. Now the letter is only the first step. How have you planned to maintain the NC?