</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I almost feel like there is no hope for our marriage, no matter what I do, or don't do. If that is the case, why plan B? Why not just continue to talk to him on an adult-co-parent level? Answer: because he doesn't deserve it! BUT I feel like I DO!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"...why plan B?"

Because your interactions with him are causing YOU pain and confusion. You're allowing him to hurt you and to make a perpetual victim of you. This must be playing havoc with your self-esteem.

Because as you continue to rely on him for emotional support, you are failing to set up a support network in your daily life with YOUR family and YOUR friends. If your marriage becomes unsalvagable you haven't put yourself in a position to be self-reliant.

Because interactions with you fuel his relationship with the OW by allowing him to continue to focus on the conflict with you.

Because allowing him to use you as a crutch for his transition is preventing him from dealing with his own emotional issues. (These are causal to the breakdown of your marriage and are as yet unaddressed.)

I don't think this man is currently capable of interacting with you on "an adult-co-parent level". He's WORKING you at every opportunity to forward his own agenda. And his "agenda" is not responsibility in his obligations as a parent. His agenda is self-serving.

He is focused on his own emotions, and on what he believes will comfort HIM. This doesn't promote the health and well-being of his family. Rather, it is TOXIC to the health and well-being of his family.

You can't help him. It isn't within the realm of your capability. The problems are on the inside. He must help himself.

You don't assist him when you put a band-aid on his problems for him anyway. It just helps him hide from himself for a little longer.

The person that YOU can help is you...and your little people. You can do that by setting your support network up, and removing yourself from the conflict. You can do that by setting up a stable environment for your family.

As far as marriage-building is concerned, a healthier, happier YOU is much more likely to succeed at a later date...after WH finally pulls his head out of his behind.

If it were me, I'd go home.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I almost feel like there is no hope for our marriage, no matter what I do, or don't do. If that is the case, why plan B? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, Dani, this feeling is what happens when you continue contact when the A is in full throttle.

That's exactly WHY you go into Plan B. So you won't feel that the M is hopeless until it really is. And if it is hopeless, you will have long since adjusted to the reality of your new life.

I know the contact is not "your fault," but keep in mind that's why you must be very very dark. To protect your love from his abuse and fogtalk.

Dani,
While reading your post of you wh wanting to help others a thought came into my head. I am also a navy wife. I have found that my dh has an EN to be needed. Because of being a military wife we have to learn how to do it all without our spouse and sometimes when we get to independent as I did they no longer feel needed. i dont know if this applies to your wh just a thought I had reading your post.

Quote about the foggy sailor: "He went on to explain that he feels like his 'job in life' is to help people. He came into my life and made me a better person. He says this because he allowed me to be a SAHM, and go to school, while he worked. He said he left because he felt that he could not help me any further, or give me what I needed. SO, now he found someone else who needs his help, and he will help her be a better person, and then move on?"

Oh yea, I see it. Having sex with somebody "helps" them have a better life...

This guy is tossing you a load of poo. He is trying to be all sweet reminiscing about the past. He is using same tactic my xh used. He would try to say how he helped me and that I can "do anything now" and what not. He wanted me to soften up and not file charges against him several times...either in divorce (adultery, cruel treatment, abandonment) or the time when he broke into my home and the county arrested him. I never called police. He got one night in jail and then whined when the county put an RO against him. He even lobbied to have it lifted. He said that I CAUSED HIM TO GET ARRESTED. I was at work and knew nothing of it.

What I am trying to tell you is that you need to go to plan B immediately. And YES there are recorders for cell phones. You can visit radio shack. Yes, you can get a recorded record of his insanity and adultery.

And show up by all means at the OW trial. She is awful. He's awful too. Showing up that late and DRUNK. Congrats...you will get full custody my dear.

Now they're going to use every trick in the book to do 2 things: 1)save their jobs and 2)keep their affair going. Why? Affairs cost money. He has to pay for a family and a ho on the side. She has a child too. So money is needed.

He will say anything to get you to go easy on him. Meanwhile he's saying nice stuff. Your brain is also getting FOGGED by him and you're losing perspective...LOSING PERSPECTIVE...you need to say "garbage in garbage out". Record conversations or vmails, but go dark. He is not healthy now. He has threatened suicide. You should use your brain.

Here is what's going on in his foggy little seafaring mind right now: Wow. Now honey, if I can soften her up, she'll drop those unfair charges against you. And then everything will be ok. I am just gonna tell them how wacked she is and how she is insane and that's WHY I left her. And I need to keep her nice so that we can get our divorce EASY. I mean, how bad would it be if I can't calm her down or get her to see things OUR way? I mean, sure we were married. I screwed up. But we're happy now and she will see in the future how it is better that we are apart. The kids will adjust. We gotta get her to see our side so we can have our future.

See? That is what my xh thinks and thought. If they can get me to like them...forget all the abuse, the craziness, the insanity from them. Just ACCEPT them. That's what they want. No. Accountability is better. ACCOUNTABILITY. This world is not good on that.

I guarantee, you stick to your guns, and go dark you'll see clearly. He is so affair driven now they're very much unified against you...

I can't remember which poster said this, but when you are in direct contact almost daily with him, you are only fueling their afffair.

I remember when somebody told me that I should NOT BECOME THE GLUE THAT HOLDS THEM TOGETHER.

That was hard to get, but it makes sense. Don't be the glue that holds them together unified against you.

Think. I suggest you send emails or letters with copies and certified mail as form of docmentation with the commanding officers.

Your x and the bimbo should be discharged for their horrible behavior. And any family court who sees this kind of horrid action will NOT give him custody...the OW could even lose custody of her child if you EXPOSE this to the child's father btw...

When a child is placed in a dangerous situation...both yours and the OW leaving her child and getting arrested for violent behavior...is PLAUSIBLE AND REASONABLE THAT SOMEBODY CONTACTS THE OW'S XH...CHILD'S DAD. That child was imho, in serious problem as the MOM WAS DRUNK AND RAN AROUND AND DROVE AROUND DRUNK, HARASSED ANOTHER WOMAN AND HER CHILDREN, AND LEFT HER CHILDREN FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG IN THE CARE OF SOMEBODY ELSE.

Horrible dad. Horrible mom. That child's dad needs to be told also.

I say GO DARK AND LET THEM DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR IDOCACY. AND SOMEHOW, GET COPY OF THE POLICE REPORT AND HAVE IT SENT TO CHILD'S DAD. CHILD'S DAD NEEDS TO KEEP HIS CHILD SAFE. THEY ARE NOT SAFE PEOPLE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He went on to explain that he feels like his 'job in life' is to help people. He came into my life and made me a better person. He says this because he allowed me to be a SAHM, and go to school, while he worked. He said he left because he felt that he could not help me any further, or give me what I needed. SO, now he found someone else who needs his help, and he will help her be a better person, and then move on? [Roll Eyes]
I asked him 'What about bettering yourself?'
His responce 'I don't matter' [Confused]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gawd...how altruistic of him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It's hard to argue a point with someone who has that "take" on things. Sounds like a bit of narcissism is running through him.

My first H said something close to that. At the time we were married, a census was out that stated that there was 11 women to 1 man ratio. Now, the only "right" thing for my first H to do with this information, was to make sure that these other "10" women got what was coming to them...as in HIM . Yep, he actually said that he owed it to these other 10 women to share himself with them. Afterall, they would NEVER have anyone else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If it hadn't been so sick and twisted of him to spin it like that, it would have been hysterically funny.

committed

I am back! I have been avoiding a plan, or even this thread for about a week now. I am not sure if it is because I am trying to avoid the conflict, can’t admit reality of the situation, or just so upset that my life has come to this, that I can’t face it. Probably all of the above. I am back now, and really, I mean it…I am ready to figure something out. I am tired, worn out, and need to get my life back together.

Orchid wrote “Exactly what was the WS and OW planning t/d with the children at 10:45pm? Weren't they in bed already?”

Yes, our children were both sleeping, and he knew that. He tells me that he knew they were asleep, and he didn’t care. He didn’t want to wake them up, he wanted to try to be Santa, come kiss them on the forehead and leave. Why bring OW here then? I don’t get it. He SAYS that he was drinking, and really sad about missing the kids, and she thought she would do him a favor by bringing him to see them. I tried explaining to WH that if he had called, said ‘hey, I am really down tonight and I want to come by and just give the kids a kiss on the forehead before I go out to sea tomorrow, would that be okay?” I would have been much more inclined to let HIM in. He didn’t do that. He came at 11pm, drunk with the OW.


Ark wrote “do you can you get copies of the police reports for your lawyer.…”

I FINALLY, (I know, I am slow) got copies of all of the police reports and calls into 911. I really wish that I never had to do this..


Kati wrote “I strongly suspect that your WH and his OW may be substance abusers, not just with alcohol.”

OW uses marijuana, I do know that. WH has not admitted to using it, and he has not shown up positive on any urinalysis, so I am not sure. He *IS* mentally unstable, and has been drinking excessively.

Kati wrote “I know that this is not what MB advocates, but I think that you may be better off without this man in your life.”

You are honestly not the first person to say that to me. It is so hard to get a grasp around that though. He WAS such a loving, wonderful husband and father…..

Ladyjane wrote “He's a slow-learner, and he's going to take this down to rock bottom. I wouldn't be hanging around to watch.”

That is very true….he is a slow learner. I really hoped, and prayed that I could do SOMETHING to make him wake up and realize what he is doing. I have now realized that I can’t. I have said everything, done everything, tried everything, and he continues to think I am against him. He thinks I am out to get him, out to burn him and the OW….
Ladyjane wrote” I would take my children and return to my home state. There, you will have support resources with your family, and be able to establish a stable environment. He's not in a position to help you financially anyway, and things will be getting worse. Although I do wonder if the military will pay for your move now under these circumstances.”
I just actually got off of the telephone with the command master chief (two steps above his Chief) and talked to him about moving. He explained to me that WH is in the process of getting in trouble for going UA and missing ships movement. They should know something within 1-2 weeks. Once that is done they can tell me how and when the Navy can pay for us to move to Maine. He understands that this is something I need to do, for my safety.

Pepperband wrote “suspect that might be considered illegal in regards to H's parental rights without a court order .... check first.”

Wow. Thank you for bringing that up. Now that you mentioned that, the next time WH called I asked him (while recording) how he felt about the kids and I moving to Maine, and he said go ahead, he didn’t care. I have asked him to get something signed and notarized that he has no problem with it. Thanks for bringing that up.

Orchid wrote “I thought your H was at her friend's house and called you last night? Where is his vehicle? It is not your fault that he can't get himself to the boat on time.”

WH spent the night in jail as well. The call I got was from the friend who they are staying with. I am still amazed how he is able to blame everything in life on me, without realizing how crazy that is.

Dobie wrote “I just want to clarify, are you considering not going to court when OW's case is heard?”

Okay, let me explain my irrational thinking here. I WILL show up in court on Feb 16th at 2pm! I will be there! It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it, and the fact that I have to deal with this mess, but I will do it.
On Tuesday when WH and I were talking he asked me if I was going to go. I told him yes. He said “You know how you say when my affair dissolves and all that? Well if you want me to come back to you when that happens then don’t be there. Don’t ruin her life just because I left you. *I* left you, not her. Yet you’re still stuck on burning her, your full of hatred.” Okay, I KNOW he is using this as emotional blackmail against me. He says that and then if I don’t show up he would laugh at me and say ‘haha’. BUT then on the other hand I think…. What if this is his last straw? What if he is trying to see if he can trust me? I really have no desire to see the OW sit in jail for a month or whatever. Even though she is an immoral home wrecking )______________________ she DOES have a 3 year old who deserves to have his mother home. (well actually he deserves a better mother, but we won’t go there). I don’t want her in jail, I don’t NOT want her in jail. I want her to LEAVE MY FAMILY ALONE. That is all I want from this court case. I want a permanent order of protection so she can’t come near the children or I. I am not sure if I will be granted one, but that is my request. If I was the nasty evil person that WH makes me out to be, I would find JOY about her being in jail, but I am not that type of person. I tired explaining this to WH and he said ‘if you want her away from the kids and you, then you don’t have to do anything else. That is taken care of. She nor I will come near the kids or you’ I don’t believe him though, I don’t have any good reason to trust him.

Dobie wrote “Look over your last post again. Add up how many more problems are weighing on your mind that you just wouldn't be thinking about if you hadn't talked to your H.”

You couldn’t be more correct. WH and I have been talking via telephone and e-mail this entire week. Small talk mostly, bills, taxes, etc. None the less, I am having nightmares again, worrying about my life, focusing on the affair, etc. I can’t keep doing this..

Dobie wrote “You have a lot of support here. I'm one of your biggest fans.”

Thank you! Really…I would be lost without MB and all of you here.

CarenMc wrote “I agree Dobie....Dani definitely has grace under pressure. I, for one, am proud of her.”

Thank you Caren. I have learned a lot from your posts. You’re a very wonderful person and thank you!


Ladyjane wrote “At this time, you are a single parent. You can no longer count on your children's father to assume a parenting role for them. He can't even manage to take care of himself right now. When you consider his history of bad choices, alcohol abuse, and melodramatic suicide threats, of what benefit is he to you and your children?”

THIS man isn’t….he isn’t a benefit AT ALL to them. It kills me…literally when I look at pictures of our family. He used to have this amazing smile and amazing love for his family and his children. The kids miss THAT. They ask for him several times a day. It is hard for me to acknowledge their desire to have him in their lives without feeling like *I* need to do something to make that happen.

A.M. wrote “What, on earth, does he expect you to do? “

He expects me to ‘be friends’ with her.
He continues to ask me and tell me that this would all be so much easier for EVERYONE if OW and I could just get together, talk, and get along. We could all spend time with the kids together, and be friends. There doesn’t need to be so much hate. I explain to him that it isn’t about hate, it’s about the fact that he even considers me doing that is complete craziness. He doesn’t understand why I feel that way. He said SHE didn’t take him from me…HE left. Even if he left the OW he would never come back to me.

R.H,
Thank you for the kind words. I did talk to the Chaplin a couple of times about different issues that have come up. He is very helpful and understanding. I wish you were my WH’s C.O. as well!

Snowbelle wrote “He uses the suicide threat to manipulate you. The best thing you could say to him the next time he tries it would be, "well, it'll be sad to see you end your life that way, but that is your choice." Then hang up the phone.”

I am starting to see this as truth. While talking to him today he said ‘Do you remember what I said that got me evaluated at the hospital‘ and I replied ‘that you were going to kill yourself Adam’ He replied ‘well if you feel the need to ruin my life and get me in trouble here on the ship, then that is what I will have to do’ I replied’ get help’ and hung up.
See….the underlying factor is that he is HONESTLY mentally unstable. He was on medication before he joined the Navy. His biological father is really unstable, and his maternal grandfather was bipolar with psychotic features. I KNOW that my WH is not mentally OK. He realizes that I acknowledge that fact and uses it against me though…


Ladyjane wrote “I don't think this man is currently capable of interacting with you on "an adult-co-parent level". He's WORKING you at every opportunity to forward his own agenda. And his "agenda" is not responsibility in his obligations as a parent. His agenda is self-serving.”

Well first, your entire post is something that I printed out and re-read when I get lost in my mind. He DOES have this agenda….I just fail to see it. Thank you.


Trying2believe wrote “ I have found that my dh has an EN to be needed. Because of being a military wife we have to learn how to do it all without our spouse and sometimes when we get to independent as I did they no longer feel needed. “

Yes, this was a BIG problem in our marriage. I only realized that AFTER he left though… I have TOLD him that I realize things that I did wrong, apologized for them, and changed. He doesn’t care to give me the chance. I learned how to live without him while he was gone on deployments and such. Then when he came home it was hard to re-group the family. Being a military family is not an easy job…but having an affair and abandoning the family isn’t the answer…

Justpeachy wrote “And YES there are recorders for cell phones”

Thank you. I actually bought one earlier this week.

Justpeachy wrote “Now honey, if I can soften her up, she'll drop those unfair charges against you. And then everything will be ok. I am just gonna tell them how wacked she is and how she is insane and that's WHY I left her. And I need to keep her nice so that we can get our divorce EASY. I mean, how bad would it be if I can't calm her down or get her to see things OUR way? I mean, sure we were married. I screwed up. But we're happy now and she will see in the future how it is better that we are apart. The kids will adjust. We gotta get her to see our side so we can have our future.”

I have to admit, I called my best friend and read this to her. She started laughing. She has been trying to tell me this EXACT thing for a week now. You are right…that is what is going on in his crazy head.

Justpeachy wrote “if you EXPOSE this to the child's father btw…”

OWs H knows about EVERYTHING. I have tried talking to him on a few occasions, but it isn’t worth it. He is with another women himself, and lives with the OW and his two oldest children. My WH and OW live with their youngest child. The 4 of those crazies think this is acceptable! My WH tells me “I get along with OWs H, just like you should be able to get along with OW. He used to hate me, but now he understands that I love his wife so he is cool with that. One day when you don‘t have so much hate you will get to that point”


Okay, now that I have been able to respond to all of the replies, I will give an update.
WH has not come to see the children. Yesterday he signed guilty to article 86 and 87 of the UCMJ which are Unauthorized Absence and Missing Ships Movement. He has NOT gone to Mast or been put on restriction yet. I have talked to the Command Master Chief and he explained to me that since WH only has 90 days left in the Navy it is difficult to prosecute him for adultery because of the proof and paperwork that it requires. The Commanding Officer is in school all next week, so it will likely be the 14th before he goes to Captains Mast.
WH has called me from the ship every day this week, and I have talked to him. I am NOT in Plan B, but I should be. (I will get to that in a minute). Sometimes he calls in a good mood, sometimes bad mood, sometimes depressed mood. I notice how my mood reflects his, and this is another reason why I need plan B again.
WH continues to ask me to not show up in court, and to just trust that OW will not come here again, nor will she contact the children or I. I can’t trust him, and I told him that.
I was able to get his W2s from him (since we were talking nice) and filed the taxes with the direct deposit going to MY account, so that is good. We can not come to an agreement yet about how the refund is divided, but oh well, it is at least filed.
I DID buy my OWN CAR! I am happy about that.
On Friday when he was sent to the hospital for evaluation I called his uncle because I was very worried, and needed to talk to someone. His uncle is an amazing man, and we talked and prayed together on the phone. Yesterday I called and talked to my MIL who is very upset about the entire thing. WH has not called and told anyone was is going on. He does know that I let them know though, and he is not upset with me for that, just mad that this situation has occurred in general. I asked him to call his parents, he doesn’t though.

Here are some of the things that he has said to me over the past week
“Why can’t you and OW just be friends? Why can’t you bring the kids over, heck, you can stay in separate rooms. It doesn’t have to be like this Danielle”

A couple of days ago WH says “You know, I am going to marry OW the same day we get a DV”
Today he says “I was kidding about that, I was just blowing smoke up your ___”

4-5 days ago “I can’t trust you Danielle, you are the evil, white trash you have always been”
Yesterday “I will always care about you, even though I can’t be with you. I will always help you. I was just blowing smoke up your ____about the comments the other day. Sorry”

WH “I hope one day you can learn to accept OW”
Me “I hope one day you can learn to respect your vows”
WH “Maybe”

WH “Please don’t make OW go to jail”
ME “I didn’t make her do anything she did”
WH “She didn’t do sh*t, your just evil, you want to see her burn, don’t you”
ME “Nope”
WH “Then don’t show up”
ME “We are getting no where, I will talk to you later”

Me “I am angry that you felt you had to leave our marriage with the problems you felt we had instead of coming to me with them”
WH “I am angry that we lived like roommates and never showed each other love for months”
Me” I am too, and I apologized, changed, and agreed to make our married whole, but your to darn stubborn”
WH “Too much has happened to ever go back, even if I left OW, we can’t ever go back”
ME “I don’t want to go back, I want to go FORWARD”
WH “Whatever Danielle, I have to go”

WH “So what are you doing this weekend”
ME “Why? Do you plan to come see the kids?”
WH “yes”
ME “When?”
WH “When you stop being so hateful and can accept our lives the way they are”
WH hangs up

WH “I am so depressed”
ME “I know, I wish you would get help, you’re a great man, and you deserve to be happy”
WH “I am thinking about it. I want to be a good dad. Danielle, do you understand that I am really not doing well? I bottle things up inside and then they explode.”
ME “Yes, I realize this. I am sorry you do that to yourself. You know, your bio father never got help for his problems, and look at how he turned out. On the other hand, Gramp got help, and he was a wonderful Father. Think about that”
WH “I guess it is a pride thing”
Me “Well I guess so.”
WH “You know, I had a lot of fun with you during our relationship”
Me “I did too, I dream of more fun times”
WH “Yea, sorry about that”

Okay, I could ramble on and on……
I NEED HELP! Suggestions? Everyone is yelling PLAN B, PLAN B, PLAN B right?
There are a few problems that stand in my way.
#1. He views my plan B letter and plan B as a whole as a treat. He views it as I am being stubborn and hateful. Therefore he gets angry and nasty when he even thinks about the kids or I. When I used to ask him if he read it (when he tried to contact me) his response was ‘Nope, don’t give a sh*t about it. I burned it. How do I present it differently?

#2. The whole intermediary thing is a tough one. I have tried several people, but they either realize that it is to much emotionally, they are too bias or something. My friend who was helping me didn’t get it…she would always tell me everything he said, because she thought I should know.

#3. How do I do this!??!?! Do I re-send him a letter? Do I just go dark and not tell him I am in plan B?

OR do I just suck it up, deal with the fact that he can’t love me again, and takl to him and get over my marriage?

Really, You are all amazing on MB, and I would be lost without you. I can’t thank you enough for all of the help you have given me.

Danielle

Okay, I typed that up on Word, and now that I copied and pasted it, it is harder to see who wrote what. I had bold what I was responding, but it didn't turn out that way. I put spaces. Can you tell?
Sorry it is so long, it took an hour or two to compose, now I see why!
Danielle

Dani,

Good to hear from you. Read your post and will reply shortly. Gotta go do some tax work. YUCK!!!

You have taken care of a lot of business this past week. Good progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

Dani...

Our son was in a mental hospital 8 times... so I do have some experience with something similar.

Here is a tip .... do not EVER argue with a wild man or try to reason with him.

ANY and EVERY time your H begins to degrade you or disrespect you even an inch over the phone, you say "I will talk to you later when you are respectful. Goodbye." THEN HANG UP! and do not answer the phone for 12 hours.

ONLY speak with him when he is being respectful.

Really ... it's the only way to go in situations like this. YOU are NOT his therapist.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He views my plan B letter and plan B as a whole as a treat. He views it as I am being stubborn and hateful. Therefore he gets angry and nasty when he even thinks about the kids or I. When I used to ask him if he read it (when he tried to contact me) his response was ‘Nope, don’t give a sh*t about it. I burned it. How do I present it differently? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resend the little sucker. And go dark again. He knows what it said.

Most of your post was about his babbletalk.

He's jerking your cord, Dani. All he has to do is accuse you of being hateful and you go all of a doodah. It's your Achilles' heel. You want to seem nice. Forget it. They aren't worried about being "nice."

If you weren't in Plan B, whenever he says, "I wish you would do ____, but you are so hateful," you could reply, "And I wish you would respect my wishes." Your hate or lack thereof is none of his business. As a grown-up and co-parent, all he has to do is respect your wishes.

(Just imagine the friendship scenario, by the way: there craziness would be in your face every time they wanted it to be. You don't need this stuff in your life.)

Rewrite your Plan B/Love Letter and the next time you talk to him over the phone you paraphrase.

1--- I love you and still hold out hope for our M, there were many good things about our M (reminisce some)

2--- You loving OW and treating me so poorly with mood swings and neglect is very hurtful

3--- I know we can have a good M

4--- I have to stay away form you and have no contact to preserve what love I have left

5--- We will have no more phone or voice contact. You can reach me by email, but I will only read email about financial and kid matters, anything else I will simply delete.

6--- I am doing this not out of spite or hate, but love, for myself and for what love I have left for you.

Good bye

You can send him the letter and let him know the letter says the same thing you said over the phone.

He probably read your original Plan B letter, but it gave him (and you) an excuse to talk with each other.

Do NOT move to Plan B unless you are ABSOLUTELY serious about it and have no more excuses.

Until then, Plan A!!!! No more barbs, snide remarks, disrespect...only love, love, love...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: ....Okay, I could ramble on and on……

I NEED HELP! Suggestions? Everyone is yelling PLAN B, PLAN B, PLAN B right?
There are a few problems that stand in my way.

#1. He views my plan B letter and plan B as a whole as a treat. He views it as I am being stubborn and hateful. Therefore he gets angry and nasty when he even thinks about the kids or I. When I used to ask him if he read it (when he tried to contact me) his response was ‘Nope, don’t give a sh*t about it. I burned it. How do I present it differently? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Doesn't matter how he views your letter. It is by you from you. As long as it represents what you need to communicate, how he takes it is his problem.

When he chooses to get angry or nasty, that is also his problem. Step out of his chaos. If he burns it, the terms of the letter still stands. If he says he doesn't know the terms, give him another copy. If he keeps destroying them, it will be his problem. He can't claiming ignorance forever.

Don't alter the letter unless you really need to. Otherwise he could say he needed to destroy it so you could give him a revised copy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: #2. The whole intermediary thing is a tough one. I have tried several people, but they either realize that it is to much emotionally, they are too bias or something. My friend who was helping me didn’t get it…she would always tell me everything he said, because she thought I should know. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: How about his uncle?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: #3. How do I do this!??!?! Do I re-send him a letter? Do I just go dark and not tell him I am in plan B? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Send the same letter if possible. Don't tell him anything. Give him the letter, if he doesn't get it, the 3rd party can help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: OR do I just suck it up, deal with the fact that he can’t love me again, and takl to him and get over my marriage?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: WS' don't love their family. So don't talk about reconciliation or M. Talk about the real issues. Child visitation, $$, etc. Keep it to non emotional and necessary topics.

Only when he tires of the WS role or sees the importance of repentance, can you even begin to consider reconciliation. 'Til the...... concentrate on protection of yourself, your finances and your family.

L.

Right on, O.!

Dani,
I couldn't agree more with the advice you've received. Protect yourself and your children by going dark. You already know your WH has mental problems, so why are you giving his words any credence? Cut yourself off from that.

I have to add that I know the PERFECT nickname for your WH, since his "mission in life" is to help OW become a "better person". How about "Professor Higgins" for your WH, and "Eliza Doolittle" for OW? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LC

I can not thank you all enough.
You all help me to get into a PLAN of ACTION mode, and help me see the reality of this.
Plan B, back in action. Lady, I love the nicknames.
I will be mailing him the letter again tomorrow. Until he recieves it (should be a couple of days) I will keep the conversations respectful or none at all.

This is what my Plan B Letter Said/Says.
Should I change anything?

I was thinking about attaching a cover letter saying that I deeply regreat the fact that I have to send him this letter again and that we find ourselves back in this situation, but that I hope he is able to respect my decision to protect my family and the love I have.

"Dear AG,

I love you and when I married you, it was for life. Along the way, we lost our way and I understand that I played a part in that. I'm truly so very sorry for foolishly concentrating on my school and day to day life and ignoring your emotional needs. I am also sorry for the decline in our sexual activity and the pattern that lead us to where we are now. I regret the fact that we didn’t talk about the problems that came up, and I was online so much. I have and am willing to continue to correct the mistakes that I made in the past and build a new and better life for the family we have created. I want to get to the route of the problem, and rebuild the foundation.

It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you. I am truly sad to see what has happened to us and to our marriage, and even more so to continue seeing what is happening to your life.

I am sorry that it has taken an affair to make me realize these things...it shouldn't have. I blame myself for that and I am sorry and I wish I could go back and change them. I also realize that there is no way for me to address these things while you are still involved in an affair. I am willing to be a wonderful wife to you, but this situation has become too painful and is destroying my love for you. When you are willing to end your affair with OW, I would love to speak to you about our future and show my commitment to this marriage.

Until that time please respect my request to separate myself from the chaos of your current lifestyle. Until your affair is over, I need to end all contact with you, and I hope you will honor that. We can use an email intermediary, my mother or your mother and your command to deal with any issues that arise. Your children miss you terribly and when you wish to see them please contact my Mother and she will help you to set up a visit.

Please understand I am not doing this to hurt you or out of anger or hatred. It is just too hard and painful for me to be involved with you while you are acting this way. My heart hurts deeply when I see the path your headed down. I want to preserve my love for you so that if you want to come back I can still have open arms for you.

I fell in love with you when we lived in our little hometown in Maine (where we both belong) and over the years, my love has grown even stronger. I want to rebuild our marriage and family. I want us to be able to make each other happy in everything that we do. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me, and I want you to be the same to me. I want us to be the loving parents our children deserve to have. We have shared so many wonderful, happy, and amazing moments together and with our beautiful children, and we both deserve so many more.

I want to get to work on building the dreams we have always talked about, and I'm willing to do that as soon as you are. The man I fell in love with is inside you, and I know he can shine through again. I miss him.
Love always, your baby girl, Danielle"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Danielle

No cover notes, no explanations, no "I LUV U" stickers on the envelope. Everything waters down your message.

Believe me, it was a great relief when I figured out in Plan B that I didn't have to deliberate answers, just resend Plan B.

No cover notes, no explanations, no "I LUV U" stickers on the envelope. Everything waters down your message. And it's been watered down plenty already.

Believe me, it was a great relief when I figured out in Plan B that I didn't have to deliberate answers, just resend Plan B letter.

WHY do I feel like he deserves an explanation?
Because *I* would want one. Because HE used to be rational.
Plan B letter printed and in the mail for outgoing.
It makes me frustrated when he sees Plan B as a threat and as me being angry. Therefore I try to explain it to him, and help him understand my view. The fact is, no matter WHAT I say, I can't change his mind.

Danielle

Dani,
It is a given that he is becomes angry and sees your Plan B letter as a threat. Why? Because it means that you are stopping his manipulation of and game-playing with you.

Ignore the anger. Don't let him suck you into explaining or talking to him.

Someone else suggested asking his uncle to be your intermediary. It might be a good idea. But, first explain to his uncle that you don't want to know everything he says...that you don't want the uncle to be pulled into his drama...that all you want him to do is communicate the bare essential information regarding the kids, financial matters, etc.

Also, given your financial situation and his stunts in taking your truck, etc., I'd keep ALL the tax refund money. You'll need it to support yours and HIS kids, especially since he's likely to become unemployed. Since you already have it in your account, there's nothing he can do about it. I know that in my state, legally, there is no such thing as stealing from a spouse. I learned that when ex-DiL forged checks on S's businesses account that did not have her name on it.

LC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong> "Dear AG, .......Please understand I am not doing this to hurt you or out of anger or hatred. It is just too hard and painful for me to be involved with you while you are acting this way.My heart hurts deeply when I see the path your headed down. I want to preserve my love for you so that if you want to come back I can still have open arms for you. .....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dani,

I know I said NOT to alter your plan B, but consider this replacement suggestion:

Replace: 'acting this way.'

To:"putting the interests of the Affair ahead of our family and marrriage."

I would then italicize that whole sentence to show it has been altered.

No cover letter needed.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>