Thank you Orchid...
I changed the sentence and I really like the way you worded it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I read Truehearts letter to your husband and it brought tears to my eyes. I WISH that my WH could see that as the truth and WAKE UP.

I thought about a comment that WH made to me yesterday when we were talking, and it helped me realize how 'far out' he really is. He just isn't even in the same book as I am, let alone on the same page.

Earier last week he said that he and OW were going to get married the day we got divorced, and the yesterday he said he was just kidding when he said that and blowing smoke up my ___.
Then he went on to say that our marriage is just a piece of paper somewhere that has both of our names on it. He said the only reason that we got married was because he was joining the Navy and we could get housing if he was married. He continued to say that marriage is over rated, WAY over rated. I said, 'Yea. I can see why you would say that in your current frame of mind'
His responce 'Danielle, I am not religious'
Umm, ok. Exactly what does that have to do with anything? And how did you suddently become 'not religious'?
I didn't ask...because I knew he couldn't give me an answer that made sense.
If anyone finds the WH handbook, please let me know.
Reward if found.

Danielle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On Tuesday when WH and I were talking he asked me if I was going to go. I told him yes. He said “You know how you say when my affair dissolves and all that? Well if you want me to come back to you when that happens then don’t be there. Don’t ruin her life just because I left you. *I* left you, not her. Yet you’re still stuck on burning her, your full of hatred.” Okay, I KNOW he is using this as emotional blackmail against me. He says that and then if I don’t show up he would laugh at me and say ‘haha’. BUT then on the other hand I think…. What if this is his last straw? What if he is trying to see if he can trust me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You recognise that as emotional blackmail, and yet here you are, saying "What if?" The fact that he can still get you to say that means IT'S WORKING. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

One of the things that I notice when I read your posts is that you really care what people think of you. You particularly care what WH thinks of you. I have to wonder why.

Your obligation to him ended when he walked out. You don't owe him kindness. You don't owe him sympathy. You don't owe him much of anything really. And as I have read very often in this forum, a WS is not the same as a loving husband or wife.

He has become a person who is barely recognizable in comparison to the person you once knew and loved. Why should you care what this new person thinks of you?

Do you think that it's going to make him love you again?...if you're nice, and you give him his way? And if it does, of what value is his love anyway?...the love of a WH? Would you even want it?

If all that were going to work, it would have worked while you were in Plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm not trying to talk you into anything. But if he wanted to be with you, he'd be there with you now. And if he wants to be with you at some point in the future, would you take him back as he is today, or would you insist that he EARN his way back?

You did your Plan A, and he failed to recommit to the marriage. Plan B has been difficult for you to adhere to. I think in part, because of your need to people-please, and maybe the idea that if you give up Plan A, you are giving up on the marriage.

But what do you have worth saving today? You did your bit in Plan A. Plan B is where HE steps up to the plate. He might not ever do it, but YOU ALREADY DID EVERYTHING THAT YOU COULD DO.

I think if you were to concentrate your next Plan B on what is best for you and your children, without regard to WH, that you'll be much more successful.

There is the very real possiblity that he'll do exactly as he says. He may divorce you one day and marry OW the next. He has shown a marked problem with impulse control. Witness how very quickly he abandoned his young family in order to be with her.

Where do you want to be in your life if that happens? Where do you see yourself five years from now if this man NEVER manages to pull himself together?

Think about committing yourself to a Plan B that fulfills Dani's goals, and pleases Dani. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As far as getting an intermediary: If you can't get one, then BE one. You don't have to let him talk to you on the phone. He can email his requests. And if he peppers them with hurtful sentiment, you are free to delete them and NOT respond until he sends them in the appropriate format. You are free to outline all of that to him very clearly.

(I was wondering though, if perhaps your MIL could be tapped for that duty.(????) He'd have to watch his mouth if his own mother was handling it.)

As far as the court appearance is concerned: Go or don't go. Whatever you are comfortable with, and whatever is in sync with your 5-year plan. I would NEVER trust his word that OW will stay away, but if you want to drop it, then drop it.

Myself, I would be more interested in setting up my case for a permanent RO down the road. And less interested in what my WH thought or what happened to his OW. But it's not me who has to make this difficult choice, it's you.

I still think you could make a deposition instead, particularly if you are feeling intimidated. You can find out by calling the D.A.'s office.

As far as sending another Plan B letter: If it makes YOU feel better then fine, go ahead. I'm sure he already knows what is required of him... so I wouldn't do it for HIM, I'd do it for ME or not at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Honestly honey, if I were going to revise my Plan B, it would be very much more straight-forward, and not quite as loving. If it were me, I think I'd let him know that he was no longer my first priority, and that winning me back was no longer a given.

That's probably not MB, but in the right circumstances it can be highly motivating for a man to realize his window of opportunity is closing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Only prob I see with the Plan B letter is the over emphasis of your giving him a supposed chance again. Almost too loving. Yea, not very MB, but this guy needs a SERIOUS wake up call.

But at this point, I would be more concerned with YOUR kids, YOU, your finances, survival, etc., than with this selfish jerk.

You gotta go dark and do B for your sanity. I read and hear and see what you think. You're stuck in his drama cycle again. I know...been there, done that...and occasionally my x will suck me into a drama again...and remember...this guy, my xh, did and said these same things..even after his marriage to OW he burst out in his office to my face that he'd always love me and was sorry for what had happened...but did he ever CHANGE? NO MA'AM...HE DID NOT. His actions were his actions and he let his desires run amuck and ruin his life.

Your x is on a collision course with accountability...for his own actions. You're just doing what is right independently of him...INDEPENDENTLY of anything he does...so you can raise them morally and decently.

Honestly, along with the B, I'd get an RO and also demand a Drug test so he can PROVE HE IS NOT USING ILLEGAL DRUGS IF HE IS TO BE AROUND THE KIDS AND BE ANY SORT OF A FATHER PERIOD.

As for the OW's trial, you're just doing what is right. You give in and do not show up, and it will haunt you. Trust me, I once was kind and actually tried to help my x's ow number 1 the path to faith. I prayed with her on phone, talked to her an hour and a half once, showing that I am "not the evil, vindictive woman" my xh painted me to be...did it work? Nah. The ho went to disneyworld with my little boy and my son. I was not even told she went until I accidentally found a tag on my son's stroller one day after the trip.

They will suck you dry. It is about your survival. And your being "in their loop" keeps you sucked into their little world of poop. Yea, a poo fest. I'd stay out. Let the chaos reign supreme in THEIR OWN LIVES.

It is NOT time for plan A ok? You've been completely disrespected and your boundaries ignored during your A. It's time for a firm and succinct B. And I'd legally follow up with an RO and a complete record of everything plus police reports to protect your kids.

Remember...when you TALK to your x, and if you say EVEN ONE TIME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO THE TRIAL OF ow, you are "BECOMING THE GLUE THAT KEEPS THEM TOGETHER". Just don't.

I decided I did not want to. And I am sane. And I am dating. And I am surviving. Sure, it's not easy, but I have respect. I am ok now. I am so happy not to deal with my xh. And this is coming from somebody who dealt with financial ruin, going from being a sahm to a working single mom, and living in a city with NO relatives. But I did it. And I am sane. You couldn't pay me to live with a liar and cheater like that...

You also endured at his hand emotional abuse. At it's finest. Another reason to stay away.

Remember...when you feel the pain now, it is because it's a familiar thing. I thought I couldn't live without my xh. Wrongo. It was just I was more SCARED of the unknown that's all. I was afraid that I'd be alone forever. But funny thing is...I feel free now. Really free.

If you want to protect your kids from their harmful actions, secure a life for them financially, you gotta go dark and do what is needed now because this guy is way out there. Not one word he utters can be believed. He is so foggy and is unable to distinguish right vs. wrong now. You can't hope for a relationship with him until HE chooses to have help. And that's up to him only. He may want to get some, but you gotta stay out.

And yea, my xh desperately wants me to be friends with the new OW/wife. She's a piece of work too. Moved in under same roof as my son before marriage to him and got preggers on purpose. Yea, that's somebody I want to be friends with uh huh. She's a dumb idiot, horrid past and personal life, and has the iq of a stump. I don't respond to any of her emails, as I have informed her that "I co parent with my xh". You are not somebody that I was a parent with so that's that. She gets it now. I speak to her one sentence for any reason whatsoever, and she's off to sending me "friendly" and goofy emails trying to be a friend. Sorry. Homey don't play that. She broke up a family and was a horrid example to my child and to her child also. I don't deal with people like that.

Right now, put reconciliation on the way way way back burner. His actions show anything but him being ready for that.

Orchid gave you great advice. But you also gotta go dark. Stay away. And I'd also file formal separation papers if I could legally to secure monies for your children and you, and to stabilize custody issues since he is openly shacking up with OW. I'd shut the door on it first. It is not being mean, cruel or vindictive. It is being pro active. It is securing your children are in a safe home environment.

He and OW are NOT concerned with you right now...except to win you over to the dark side..aka their side. Get you to drop charges against her, not show up in court. Get you to become friends and become a horrid example of parenting just like her H who's also shacking up. Poor kids. I hate to see this crap.

Since I do NOT talk to my x anymore unless there is an issue regarding finances or about my son or a parenting issue, I am doing great. Only lingering thoughts are about how he left me in horrible financial situation. That's all I commisurate about these days. Not him. I am soo happy being single. I have the opportunity to be loved by somebody who is WORTHY of my son and I. In fact, I am going to dinner tonight with a cute guy, Jack, on a date. Yea, another date. And one of them is going to stick darn it! Had an hours' talk with my xbf this week and went to lunch with him too.

Your future will be bright. That will happen after you are able to clear your head and clean house. You gotta get him outta your life for now. He can choose to come around or he cannot. As of now, it really doesn't matter what you do, he's totally foggy. But what needs to be done is for you to get a grip and have some clarity...and that comes from stepping back and evaluating your life from afar. You're too close to the problem now.

I am all for marriages healing. If I thought it were a time for some serious stuff, some serious psych babble, I'd call Orchid for reinforcement. Now, I would just go to b. And stay firm in it.
NC means NC.

Use this time to NOT worry about him, to be with your kids, do things with them, work on a positive legal outcome to secure for you and kids' finances and custody, and work on you. Do a few little things for yourself too! You will feel amazing when you decide you are not going to be willing to carry the burden of this affair anymore on your back.

Get tough. Go to the trial. Wear your best dress and look like a million bucks. But when you sit in that courtroom, you're gonna feel wonderful in a few weeks when you've had a drama free life! For now, you're gonna legally and personally drop THEIR drama for good. And he's gonna either lose everything or wake up. And that is something that is OUT OF YOUR CONTROL. HE HAS TO DECIDE THIS. AND YOU HAVE TO DECIDE HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND THE KIDS AS OF TODAY.

Hi DanigirlinVA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ,

have you read the book "Love must be tough"?
I just got it and read it the other day and since I am in a somewhat similar situation as you are, it first got me confused with what "Surviving an affair" says but then I realized that maybe Plan B LMBT can go together and must be implemented.

I'm sitting here right now with the same question; should I or should I not implement Plan B?!
Should I or should I not go to IG?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well, take care and keep your spirits high! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

raven

Me 39
WH 34
OW 30
DS10,DD4
married 11 years
A startet 12/2003
DDay 6/6/2004
My Story

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Ravenclaw ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm truly so very sorry for foolishly concentrating on my school and day to day life and ignoring your emotional needs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This pains me. Why should you feel sorry for improving yourself and your family's future?

I am giong to flip out...I can't handle this anymore.

I just got served with summons for assult and disturbing the peace from the OW. They are cross complaints to the charges from 8/31. I DIDN"T TOUCH HER, and SHE WAS AT MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

How was I dusturbing her peace, when she was at my house?
I can't take this anymore...
I guess I need to get a lawyer...
I am going to die...I am crying so hard...I just want this all to go away...
Danielle

Don't cry, Dani. Contact Orchid. She's been through this stuff.

This is so crazy!!!!
ORCHID?

I guess I in looking in the yellow pages for a lawyer. The lawyer I am working with about seperation is in Maine..
This is so crazy

I can't believe this is happening to my life...
Danielle

{{{{dani}}}} Hang in there. Is this cross complaint due to be held after the OWs court date?

THis is a major attempt to make you go away and not show up at her trial. IMO, WH was in on this, too. Right? I would guess that his visit was an attempt to suck you back in. Is that possible?

ANyway, on to practical matters.
DO you have a copy of he police report? DO you have your documentation for the RO agains OW that you had? DO you have EVERYTHING ready to show the lawyer? Get it together now. THen when you take it to the lawyer, also ask if WH and OW can be held responsible for this "nuisance/intimidation" summons and can they be forced to pay. THis is a load of crock.

But, you do need to take all your stuff to the lawyer and make sure that WH AND OW will have to pay court costs. OW at the very least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

What a whacko!

Orchid, I know you will have better advice.

Knowledge is Power.

Get some facts under your belt. Do you have some free time?

Go down to the courthouse and see if you can talk with someone about what this summons means. See if they have any suggestions...perhaps one would be to take out an RO, another is to look into the consequences of false claims? There are information desks and court clerks that know the system and know how to read these documents. You can find out about what the court case would be like, which judge...etc. There are usually lawyers hanging around down there too, perhaps you can ask one about their services?

Become armed with more knowledge than they have.

calm down ..danielle..

this is nothing..
this is more than nothing...
it is exactly like you said..
they come to your house close to 11:00 pm...to see a 22 month old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

husband with OW is drunk...
too drunk to drive...

these charges are pathetic...

keep all emails you have from WS especially any of those where he begs you to drop the charges...

don't let this get to you...

hit her with filing FALSE charges...when the time comes...but right now..

right this minute
DO NOT WORRY

not a second of energy waisted on this

you didn't touch her..there is NO assault...

you didn't disturb THEIR peace..they came to YOUR home...

let it go....
ridiculous....

don't give in to the emotional chaos of them...
don't fold up...

this is just more pathetic actions of pathetic people....cause she's running real scared that this recent assault is just more proof of how insane and messed up she up...

oh sheeesh danielle...
if your phone rings DO NOT ANSWER...IT'S BOUND TO BE JERRY SPRINGER LOOKING FOR HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

you can do this ..
get past this with class and grace..


ARK

First off, calm down. NOw we know why your WH was so nicey nicey, now don't we?

This is CLEARLY a ploy to freak you out and scare you into submission.

You have your police report on your side. You NOT ONCE opened that door. You came into NO physical contact with that woman. If you can, when your police neighbor is home, let him have a look at the complaint. I'd bet a buck he knows a lawyer who can help you.

Don't cry. Its exactly what they want you to do. I'd also be willing to bet you will get a call from your husband telling you that if you'd just not show up at her court hearing, she will drop the charges on her end. DON'T FALL FOR IT.

The truth is on your side, Danielle. Remember that and calm yourself down. Don't let them win by messing with your emotions.

Just posted to you on your other thread, then I found this. You should buy him a shovel on his next birthday, so he can dig the hole deeper! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ditto everything Ark said. I can't imagine what judge wouldn't see this as a nuisance lawsuit and harrassment.

What a melon-head. He'll land back in jail if he keeps this up.

Morning Dani,

Sorry for getting on this sooo late. Son has been sick and it was a looong night.

Now you need to take a few deep cleansing breathes and calm down. This OW is getting desparate so expect her to do stupid things like filing an RO against you.

Anyways, as for the OWs RO thingy, it is her right to do so. Crazy as it is, it is her right. Now whether it makes sense to the courts, is another thing. The OW (PBR) in our case filed 2 ROs. You should only file 1. The 2nd RO was in our county and the 1st was in hers. What a nut, even the guy who tried to process it, laughed. LOL!!!

Now in addition to asking for legal advice, you should have been given a form to fill out your story. If the RO was against you. Make a couple of copies of the blank form and fill out 1. Keep the other blank copy in case you need to do it again.

What is the date and time on the RO from her vs the one you file on her?

Call the police and notify them that OW filed an RO on you and now you fear for the safety of yourself and your family.....again. Let them put her threat (RO) in your case. Make sure the date and time of her RO case is related to the same incident.

I believe she is filing as a rebuttal. Stupid girl.....

You go and get your counsel..... let the WS know that you can't give him $$ because you have to spend it on dealing with the OWs RO. No details, just a single statement. Then ask if his visit to Mickky D's was a setup or genuine. Let him know that at this time, you just can't tell.

Make sure these e-mails are then put as proof and kept in a safe place.

I certainly hope he isn't setting you up. That would really make t/b a real loser. ;(

Chin up, Dani...... you will be ok. Just stick to the facts and breathe to keep calm. ok?

Get your new supporters (legal counsel, police), etc. Call the women's abuse hotline in your area and see if they have any recommendations. I am sure they have dealt with psycho OWs before.

take care,
L.

I feel so sick about this whole thing...
It is making me ill that WH would not only allow but ENCOURAGE someone to do this to his WIFE. I just don't get it.

I have called 3 different lawyers today. One wanted 4,000, one is supposed to get back to me tomorrow, and one I meet with on Thursday. I can't afford any 4,000 because WH and OW feel like screwing with me. The way it looks right now, I am going to get my documents and my head together and go in there alone and present the case. I went down to the police department and asked them about it and they said that it is more like peoples court and most people don't have lawyers. He did say that since OWs case is 2/16 and the new charge against me is a case on 3/11 that I could request a continuance for them both to be on 3/11. I told the officer that I can't believe they even let her file charges for disturbing the peace when she was at MY HOUSE!!!
This is so crazy. WH left me a voice mail that says 'Danielle, this doesn't have to be like this, you brought it upon yourself when you called the cops on me, call me and we can talk'
Heck no, I have nothing to say to you!!!
Right now I feel like telling the lawyer 'Yes, I will pay 4,000 just give me a divorce hearing at the same time because I am threw with this crap'
Danielle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The way it looks right now, I am going to get my documents and my head together and go in there alone and present the case. I went down to the police department and asked them about it and they said that it is more like peoples court and most people don't have lawyers.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you'll get a lawyer anyway. He/she could possibly keep you from having to make a court appearance at all. A lawyer could also help you make a case of harrassment and intimidation, which is clearly legitimate in your circumstances.

One of the things you can discuss with the lawyer is how you're going to pay for his/her services. You can't put a price on the security of your family. If WH is really going to 'go there'....why not be the one to do it better?

You're still married. I wonder if hubby might have to share the burden of the legal debt?

Dani...keep that voice mail as well. In it is shows that their charges are retaliatory. KEEP EVERYTHING. Even your postings on this board might be helpful, and you relayed the events of that evening just after it happened. And to get the RO you had to state the events.

Did she tell the cops, that night, that you had assaulted her??? Of course not, because it didn't happen. One would think, logically, that if you called the cops on them for being drunk and noisy, she'd have mentioned something about you assaulting her.

I'm glad you don't have to waste your money on a lawyer...at least yet.

Silly little fools they are!

You are correct I would do anything for my family. I would pay the 4000 if I could possibly do it, in any way. WH has maxed out all of his/our credit cards and I took my name off of them. I can't even pay if I wanted to. I am hoping that the one that is to call me back tomorrow has an idea for payment. I can barly pay the most important bills each month..
I contacted my brother, who I thought might help, and he said 'it is only a misdemeanor and I didn't need a lawyer'
I am going to go down to the court tomorrow and see about getting a court appointed attorney...I am not sure how that works, but it can't hurt to try.
Danielle

Orchid,
I just wanted to say that I hope your son is feeling better and you are able to get some rest tonight.
Danielle

I'm hopeful that if you can actually get in and talk to a lawyer face to face that he/she might be moved to find creative ways to help you.

Hang in there, and don't panic. It's just a nuisance charge and it'll never stick.

I wonder if you could get any assistance from the Navy? Doubtful, but is there anybody that you could call to ask?