Keep working w/JL and the others. I would like to add that you need to let her parents know that some of her friend's are evidently supporting the A. What you are not sure of is why. C/b she is giving them a story line also. C/b she is telling her friends that you are being abusive or even worse, you are having an A and she needs to move out so as to validate them helping her.

My point is to give enough info so others c/b your lookout. Takes some stress off of you and puts more eyes in more places.

The PI idea is still a good one. Even if you know your wife, you don't know what this WS is capable of. Believe me, most of us where shocked at the lengths some of the WS in our lives go to support the A.

Better to take the high road and trust no one (esp the WS).

take care,
L.

Hi 0 -

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The PI idea is still a good one. Even if you know your wife, you don't know what this WS is capable of. Believe me, most of us where shocked at the lengths some of the WS in our lives go to support the A.

Better to take the high road and trust no one (esp the WS).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure about the PI thing - I already know this is going on, that he has his own house, that her friends have offered their house - that they are going to a Ball together (though as separate couples) - I really don't care about the details - what I care about is that it is happening, and, taking that into consideration, I need to know how to proceed from there.

Interestingly, I found out that the lawyer I called wantd a retention fee of $3k, plus I need to file divorce in this state in order to get emergenecy custody. Curiously, 3000 dollars is what was missing from our account just a week ago.

I may need to learn to live without the kids - but I can still be here for them and her - I will never grant full custody, and most likely never sign and divorce papers, simply because I think the kids, her guilt, God, and the fact that she has been driven all her life to do the right thing will finally come back to haunt her. The fog needs to lift.

I just spoke with my pastor, he's going to try to talk to her - they have been close friends in the past, maybe he can do a little in the way of help.

Also, for the past two days, she's been doing the weirdest thing: she's been telling me over and over howe I'm going to have to learn more about how to take care of the kids - things that she has done for them (not a lot, but it's like she's relinquishing all responsibility to me) - study up on pre-adolecensce (sp?) for our DD, etc. It's almost like she's considering leaving them here for a while. Odd. But a nice thought.

I will never figure WS out....

David,

I am about to be gone the rest of the day but felt I must respond to your last post. You asked and said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi JL

First off, like I wrote last night, I just turned the whole thing over to God and slept on it. Woke up this morning in a lot clearer frame of mind. OK, so my wife is in an active A, she is hiding it from me, and she has the support of her friends. She is lying to me about a great many things, and is, for the most part, although remaining aloof, still friendly, hasn't been acting hateful as she did when I first confronted her. That may be bnecause I've just been doing my Plan A here at home and leaving her to do what she wants - which could be a mistake.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it could, but a good plan A is never a mistake and in fact it makes ANY other decision you make much more powerful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did realize this. My wife has a very strong conscience. And it's affecting her. She hasn't been able to keep food down since this thing started, she's lost all kinds of weight, she is depressed and on medication. She even admitted to me yesterday that it was panic that was affecting her. I didn't pursue it, but I know it's her conscience that is bothering her - it hasn't been seared enough yet to be numb. So I do know I have some time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">David, do you like Chinese?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well what I am thinking is that you need to apply a little sweet and sour to this. Let me explain my thinking. First you have undoubtedly heard that </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The best revenge is a life well lifed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am thinking you need to be loving and live your life well. In this case you need to be honest with her, do loving things for her, AND start to lead a slightly separate life with the kids and with yourself. That is the sweet part.

The sour part is the setting of boundaries and as I said last night the refusal to "accept any blaming or guilt shifting on her part". This can be done in a non-lbing manner, but with a resolutness that will stun her. She also needs to see that she might lose you.

The divorce talk is just that...to a degree and it is a function of the "fog" of an affair. Her freinds are fools but what is to be expected in a law school. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Nevertheless, she needs to see that you ARE strong enough to leave her although it is the last thing you want to do.

So if her conscience is bothering her the sweet and sour will had to it. That is my thinking.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am contacting a lawyer this morning, but as for the PI, I'm not sure I need one - I believe in my wife, and I trust God - if I know her at all, this affair will end somehow and her conscience will drive her nuts till she makes things right. I already know who the guy is - he and I used to get along well - would have been very good friends (as I can say about many of those she has dragged into this mess - That's a consequence she's going to have to face later, should things work out between us.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">More information is always better with regards to custody, and even ending the affair. This is not just about you it is about your children and frankly from what you have said it would appear they would be much better off with you than her plus OM. The lawyer is a MUST because of her discussions about leaving and taking the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've read so many conflicting things about it that I'm not certain of what exactly it is. I do know my part - work on making my life, fix the problems I know I have, learn my LBs intimately and fix 'em as much as God gives me the strength to do... Learn her ENs and try to fill them. Make our house a wonderful home. But here I am stuck. I get from some people that I should be showering her with love, from others that I should let her suffer the consequence of losing my trust. My instincts want to write her love letters, send her cards, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would strongly recommend that you go to the source and read the articles here on plan A. Then get I believe Surviving an Affair and read it with regard to plan A. I know your instincts are to do these things but often they are viewed by the WS in an A as you trying to "control" her. YOu will hear that a lot from her. It is her defense to keep distance because her conscience hurts her. I think being as loving as you can is a good thing.

There are consequences to the fact that you HAVE lost trust and that includes checking on her and other things including exposure. It is a fine line and this is really where even on call to the Harley's or to Cerri could really help. You are right to be a bit confused because plan A sort of seems like you are loving them back into the marriage, but often all you can do is plant the seeds by showing you are aware, you are changing, you want the marriage, and you do love the WS, but you do have boundaries. You are NOT going to end this affair only she will. The issue will be that when it does end will you have enough love left to endure the arduous task of recovery. It is hard going quite often.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been leaving a note on her pillow each night that just says Goodnight - nothing particularly mushy, and she told me she really appreciated that. But is that enabling her to get ENs filled from both me and the OM? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you are. And that is why Plan B has so much power. Plan A often does not succeed in leading to the end of the A. But it does plant the seeds, it reinforces that you are meeting many of her EN and when it is withdrawn it has an impact. But recall plan B is mainly to protect your love by SLOWING down the drain on your love bank. You sound strong now, so plan A is where you need to be right now.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems that I should work on doing all I can to make her feel that she is wanted and appreciated, and that I know I have hurt her in the past and want to heal that - but how do you suggest I go about that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are doing what you can do. I don't think this has a thing to do with your past A. IN fact all that has done is give her a convenient excuse to do what she wants to do, and it is here that you have to establish some boundaries.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure what to say to her parents - should I fax over the emails I found? Should I just call them back and let them know how much this hurts, and that I still love her very much and want this to be fixed? She's already pissed at me for telling them she had something to say to them (I don't know what she said, but she usually tells the truth, so I imagine it was a lot). Here, my instinct is to call them and ask for advicce - they've been my parents, too, for a long time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your instincts are correct. If you call them what you are seeking is HELP. You don't need to send emails unless they insist on proof. What you need is their assistance in helping her see that this A is destroying the marriage and that you want more than anything to be happily married to their daughter and make a good strong family for their grandchildren. So there is no need to badmouth her, no need to afix blame, you just plain and simple need help because you feel she might listen to them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can already tell you that a NC letter is out of the question at this time - she has no intention of ending this right now, although she is giving him 'space' because he is sc***ing another woman. And he is giving her 'space' to get things taken care of here. I know that this affair cannot last - but it does not mean that she will want to come back, I understand that, although I'm hoping that as the fog clears, she will remember that we used to be good friends, even though things were rough between us many times - we did not have MB to help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't rule out the NC letter, but that comes only when the affair is ending and she expresses a need to come together again. It is part of what is required for her to come back once you go to plan B or actually even now. You are not ready for plan B yet, although last night it seemed you were. However, the BIGGEST mistake Harley claims people make is that they don't go to plan B soon enough. It is a gamble, but often people let things deteriorate too much before the next step and it is not effective. You are right asking for a NC letter for an affair she does not admit is not going to fly. You may also see this guy as a loser, but she does not. Hence the talk of divorce and leaving you and taking the kids. It is part of the "fog" and often only reality ends it. Reality may be you telling her parents about your need for their help. Reality may mean plan B. Reality may well mean heading toward divorce. Who knows in these things. The fog is a serious thing. As is the possibility that you are seeing a MLC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to ask her to do the EN quesiona to step up Tane. There are no guarentees in thisire again today - I'm going to ask her to do it to show me how I failed. She may do it along that line: she keeps telling her friends that she wants to be friends with me 'after the divorce'. Maybe she'll take it as a way to help her screwed up husband (yes, all of her friends are advising her that I need months of counselling to get healed from my evil ways - while my IC told me last time that she thought I was doing very well and that I didn't need to come back unless something came up that I might need help with...)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I am going to be very firm here. DO NOT MENTION THAT YOU HAVE FAILED OR THAT YOU ARE SCREWED UP. You are not, and there is no need to keep feeding her delusion. "radical honesty" Tane, it is how you have to be. You did NOT cause this A, you are the one hanging on and taking care of the family and you are NOT screwing up. Don't play games with her. As for the EN questionaire, I don't think it will help right now. If she has taken it already, often the WS use any mismatch or preceived failure as MORE justification to continue what they are doing. So think about this carefully. If you took the questionaire and answered it for her, you would probably be closer to the truth than you will get from her in the fog.

However, there may come a moment of clarity for her and then it would be good to do it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You guys are the most help. If I could afford to talk to Steve, I would, but right now, I need to concentrate on getting a cheaper place, and ridding myself of all kinds of unnecessary bills.....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is much cheaper than a divorce. If you want someone well versed in MB and who has been trained to coach people you can look up Cerri's website. I don't recall it right now but there are people here than tell you. I know 2Long knows it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, the thing that is bothering me most today is the fact that she keeps talking to me aout all the things we are going to do together in the future - but planning on moving out. That has to be the FOG, riht?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh Yeah! The "fog" is definitely in. In their "fog" there are no consequences for what they do. Anything they do is right and justified. In the "fog" they don't really hurt people and surely not their children. Oh, the "fog" is great stuff, but it does burn off and with it comes the realization of all they have destroyed and harmed.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Ok, David,

Everyone has been very nice and understanding so far. I've avoided posting to you because, to be honest, it aggravates me AT YOU to see a fellow man allow himself to treated this way.

But I'm going to have to shoot straight with you.

I was WS. If my wife had behaved the way you are behaving with yours, I don't think I would've ever ended my affair.

The reason is that YOU have absolutely no respect for yourself. You are letting her mistreat you in any way she chooses.

You vacillate about whether exposure would be a LB, or whether you should worry about about snooping...

Get some cajones, man! You're under attack!

A woman will NEVER respect a man who won't stand up for himself. (I'm not talking about physical violence here).

I hope this post pisses you off, because frankly, you need to get a little energy from somewhere. You're letting her run all over you.

Gird up you loins, buddy boy

1) Tell her you know exactly what's going on. She doesn't have to know how.

2) Explain that her unacceptable actions are hurting you and the kids and that if she continues, you will take positive action to protect yourself and your children.

3) Confront her friends. Notify her parents. Notify all of the OM's family as well.

4) Secure your finances...NOW

5) Find that $3k ...anyway you can.

6) Be eerily sweet to her the whole time you're doing these things...you're not doing them to hurt her. She'll think you are, but you're not.

You're bent on going down without a fight. What kind of father would do that to his kids? They need you in this fight.

If I could mail you some liquid courage, I would. As it is, it's up to you to find some guts...cause that's all she's gonna understand.

Sorry to be harsh, but I know if I'm struggling to find a man to respect in your posts, I can only imagine what you're wife sees.

Low

Loworbit -

No your post didn't piss me off - it had many good points. I probably have come across as doubting what I should do - that's true - I've had to overcome a lot of crap that I put on myself, and I've also spent 3 years trying to bend over backwards making up for my own affair - and I was not pleased with myself at all for the pain that I caused.

It took me some time on these boards to figure out that my wife was simply taking advantage of my regret and remorse, because of the power it gave her. It may have also caused her to lose respect for me (if she had any in the first place).

I have already spoken with a good lawyer, unfortunately, the laws of our state do not allow for any form of 'emergency custody' filings unless a divorce has already been filed, and I am not yet ready to go that far.

The principles on this website and in Dr Harley's books are good ones, I had to learn an awful lot about how I was treating my wife - things I really was doing wrong, and things I could change - before I started feeling like I was someone she could love and trust again.

And you are right, she's walked over me for 18 years - my fault; it wasn't that way 100% of the time, just when she wanted things. Yes, I shold have done more to be more assertive - not everyone is raised that way - I've had to learn it.

But that doesn't mean that I am a doormat now. My questions and rants of the past few days have been out of pure frustration and because I've never experienced this before. If I had acted how I wanted, out of anger and disrespect for her, I would have caused more damage than has already been done. Instead, I stepped way back and vented and 'whined' on these boards. Mostly to clear things up before I saw her again. And the reason I did that was because of what I have learned here.

So, yes, I agree with you, for the most part - I need to face things when they happen. And I will. The person you see here on these posts is working thru basic emotions before having to go back into the battle.

I do appreciate your input and thoughts - they have helped a lot.

David

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,
I'm writing to say thanks for your post and thanks for hoping things work out for me. As far as I know, my WH and I are still going to a movie Sat. night when he returns from his business trip.

"Yes, it could, but a good plan A is never a mistake and in fact it makes ANY other decision you make much more powerful."

JL - your post was very helpful to me, especially the statement above since I sat down to write a Plan B NC letter right before reading it in case my WH does not show any interest in saving our marriage upon his return this weekend or shortly thereafter. I've only been in Plan A for about a month and my WH has given me some indicators he's considering breaking contact with OW and putting his heart into trying to save marriage. Where do I get more patience???? I'm upset this morning in part because he did not call me last night (implication in my mind: he called her instead of me) but mainly because I'm feeling the deep sorrow AGAIN of being second best to someone I still love deeply. It's probably too early for Sweet & Sour, too? It seems like it would enable me to show him I still love him but allow me to not dwell on him so much. It almost seems like a Plan A-...

David - sorry I jumped in with my own sorrow - guess I just needed to "talk"... I'll keep track of you on MB and hope things work out so you and your children can be happy!

Hi verysadnow3:

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">David - sorry I jumped in with my own sorrow - guess I just needed to "talk"... I'll keep track of you on MB and hope things work out so you and your children can be happy! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a problem - this website is like family, and I am more than willing to have you post here - it helps me with my own struggles, and if I can be of any help I will!

Hope you never have to go to Plan B. Just finished reading "Surviving An Affair" tonight - I can't recommend that book enough. I got a copy off of half.com for about 10.00. It's worth much more than that...

David

Quess I just wantd to post my thoughts...

Today we are supposed to go to our first MC appointment - her reason is so that she will be free to tell me things that she doesn't feel free to tell me to my face or with our pastor. I am so scared. Yes, loworbit, I'm showing a weakness here. Haven't slept, worked all night, am very, very tired, have to work agan tonight.

Haven't talked to my wife since sometime yesterday afternoon, and that only a quick IM saying that she was going to be home before I left for work (she wasn't).

Not sure why I'm so afraid of this session, except I don't know about this councellor, other than that he sounds nice over the phone and was highly recommended by my IC. I'm worried that he will turn out to be more of a divorce counsellor than a marriage - of course, that's borrowing ahead of time. But I know that's the kind my wife wants - otherwise she'd talk to the pastor.

Guess I just need someone to talk to - there's no one here, and the quiet and loneliness is driving me nuts....

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,
I think I may have been confusing your D-Day with the D-Day of the person that started your thread. (If I'm not making sense it has been a LONG week and I'm getting posts mixed up). So, let me just ask - how long have you been in Plan A? BTW- Try not to anticipate the MC. I know it is hard but he/she could be terrific and help you save your marriage!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by verysadnow3:
<strong> David,
I think I may have been confusing your D-Day with the D-Day of the person that started your thread. (If I'm not making sense it has been a LONG week and I'm getting posts mixed up). So, let me just ask - how long have you been in Plan A? BTW- Try not to anticipate the MC. I know it is hard but he/she could be terrific and help you save your marriage! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi! I've been doing a form of Plan A (improving myself) since the end of September. D-Day was Dec 26. The MC was no help. He asked what I wanted, I was very honest, told him I wanted to learn the tools needed to save our marriage. Then my wife said she wants an immediate divorce. He said, since that's her decision, our task is now to make this transistion as painless as possible for the kids. Also turns out she has retained an attorney and has alredy begun custody and divorce proceedings. Just wanted a 3rd party in the room in case I got mad.

She took all of our money - all of it, to retain this attorney. I am without recourse. She has asked me to move out of the hose to make the kids as conmfortable as possible, and says that we will now be best of friends, now that she can be happy.

WHAT DO I DO NOW?

Do not move out! You do not have to leave. Do not let the kids go anywhere. See an attorney immediately. Many will allow you to pay on a per month deal. do what you have to do to protect those kids.

First, they need not be around the OM. They also need a "sane" parent to be there daily. That is YOU.

Second, you need to go to Plan B. It is time. Write your Plan B letter this weekend and post it here so we can vet it.

Once you do that, AND see an attorney on Monday...then you tell your wife that you will not be leaving and the kids will not be leaving...but she is welcome to leave if she is serious about this filing.

My wife moved out. I refused to let the kids go with her. So, she eventually left on her own. She then tried to file awhile later. but by then, I already had many months behind me as the sole parent taking care of them. Plus, her affair and leaving was looking very bad for her. So, when we went to court, the judge awarded physical custody to me. Because of abandonment (that is what it is when you abandon your husband and kids), and for her showing an example of how not to behave to the children.

Four weeks later, because the loss of her kids was like a BIG fan blowing the fog away...my wife and I finally have the complete start we needed. I finally got a NC letter out of her to the OM. I finally got her saying the things I have waited so long to hear. Not because I have asked. But because the fog has left.

So, mission number one is to protect yourself and those kids. DO WHAT IT TAKES!! Those kids are depending on you. Do not be defeatist and think that you cannot do this. You MUST do this.

If you need help, come here. I can help you as much as I can, in helping you better your position and where your WW will box herself into a corner. But, get busy. You now know her agenda. Get the PBL ready...get an attorney. And be prepared for WWIII!!

But, if it is like me, you actually may see your wife come back in the end. But that is not your mission right now. Whether she comes back or not, right now your only objective is protecting your family from a very selfish woman.

In His arms.

HI Mortarman:
I]ll need help with plan B - I'll draft a letter tonight at work and post it...

I need to move tho - we live way beyond our means, and if I do keep the kids, I will have to budget a lot lower

Fine. But the kids DO NOT go with her.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mortarman:
<strong> Fine. But the kids DO NOT go with her.

In His arms. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure how to stop that. She already has an attorney, although she may not have started any proceedings. My only chance is to file separation papers or a divorce paper before her and have custody written in - that's how the law is in our state...l

What state are you in???

If that is the case, then 8:30am Monday, you are outside the attorney's office. If the attorney you are seeing cannot help you financially, then go to Legal Aid and get one. sell something, borrow money from family...whatever it takes!! I am telling you...you are a man so you already are at a disadvantage. You have to work harder and faster and smarter.

Do not let anyone tell you that you cannot get your kids. If an attorney says that...find a different one. Find someone that is going to fight for your kids.

In His arms.

This two thread system you got is going to drive me batty!

Few questions…from an earlier post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I'm not sure about the PI thing - I already know this is going on, that he has his own house, that her friends have offered their house - that they are going to a Ball together (though as separate couples) - I really don't care about the details - what I care about is that it is happening, and, taking that into consideration, I need to know how to proceed from there.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this guy attached? If so….why doesn’t his SO or wife know already. He’s a student too?? How old is he…some exposure at his end is in order. Did you speak to her parents yet?? Any other relatives she’s close to that will support the marriage.

This situation sounds similar to mine, the highly touted psychologist that works for our agency suggested the constructive separation while WW was still involved in what was at least a EA. Guess what she did with her new found free time? Anyway, she ended up moving out for good…I stayed in the house, why should you leave. Start lining up childcare in case you’ll need it.

Document her behavior...in pen, dated....I've suggested this before. If a custody battle ensues and you have recorded your observations and have them written in your handwriting, that is far more credible than someone going strictly by memory.

Close all joint credit cards. Close all joint accounts. This can be done over the phone. Ask her about the $3000.00…..does she not have school money? If so, get it and give it to her minus the $1500.00 she stole from the other account.


You cannot afford to not afford a lawyer. Get references for a good one and then call the bank to see if you can skip a mortgage payment and use that money, or get a loan from the bank or your parents. Prepare for the worst….but hope for the best. This is a long way from over.

I also will suggest the book “love must be tough” by James Dobson. He suggests not mitigating the crisis, but creating it. She should feel the consequences like a thunderclap. You can do that in the framework of Plan A. You cannot under react right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong> This two thread system you got is going to drive me batty!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted to just moc this over but didn't know how.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Is this guy attached? If so….why doesn’t his SO or wife know already. He’s a student too?? How old is he…some exposure at his end is in order. Did you speak to her parents yet?? Any other relatives she’s close to that will support the marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He just divorced his wife because she couldn't stay away from other guys. Ironic, eh? He's a little more than half her age. Did speak w her parents, they want me to come over tomorrow to speak with them - they are PISSED.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Document her behavior...in pen, dated....I've suggested this before. If a custody battle ensues and you have recorded your observations and have them written in your handwriting, that is far more credible than someone going strictly by memory.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've kept a journal of the events, pretty much as much as I can remember - I write in it daily.....

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Close all joint credit cards. Close all joint accounts. This can be done over the phone. Ask her about the $3000.00…..does she not have school money? If so, get it and give it to her minus the $1500.00 she stole from the other account.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am opening my own CU account Monday, she already took all the nmoney from our account except what she's leaving in there for me to 'move out with'. Have no joint credit cards, she is terrible with them - maxes them and then leaves me to deal with the creditors, I tore all mine up a long time ago - don't use them at all.


<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cannot afford to not afford a lawyer. Get references for a good one and then call the bank to see if you can skip a mortgage payment and use that money, or get a loan from the bank or your parents. Prepare for the worst….but hope for the best. This is a long way from over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We rent, so the loans are a better deal - just paid off my truck.

I also will suggest the book “love must be tough” by James Dobson. He suggests not mitigating the crisis, but creating it. She should feel the consequences like a thunderclap. You can do that in the framework of Plan A. You cannot under react right now. [/QB][/QUOTE]

It's been a while since I've read any Dobson - I'll get it and read it this weekend.

Tanelornpete,

Let's brainstorm about the money situation.

Do you have any unified financial records - like in Quicken or Microsoft Money? If so, secure a copy of that and take a close look at it.

If you have college funds for your kids, make sure they are protected. Make sure they are set up where you both have to sign - or if not, move them where she can't touch them.

What about 401K's, IRAs, Coverdale's, KEOGH plans etc? Those should not be vulnerable, but if in the past you have given her the ability to mess with them (for lack of a better term), fix yours so that she can't.

If you have a 401K, you can borrow half of it's value to pay your legals. If you have online access, you may be able to do this without signing anything (not sure about that), in which case you can do it to your wifes 401K too if you have on-line access to that(probably not legal though).

Do you have good credit?

If so, you may want to take out some credit cards for yourself - to finance your legal bills, if nothing else. They will be marital debts probably and she will end up paying half your legal bills.

You say you have no joint cards remaining.

Get a credit check to be sure.

If you owned, I would recommend that you get a HELOC to finance your legals - but you don't own so that won't work.

Check with your bank and see if you can refi your truck to get some $$.

Does your son have a vehicle?

Who's name is it in?

Life insurance: Do you have the kind that you can borrow against or extract a cash value? If so, check into that. If your w is beneficiary, and it is not through your work, you may be able to change the beneficiary to your parents. I don't know if it matters, but just in case it might.

How are your vehicles titled?

They can be in one name only, in both names with AND or in both names with OR. (at least in my state). If there is an OR between the names, then either party can sell the vehicle. If yours in is your name alone, that's good. If either is in both names with an OR then either one of you can sell it for money. If that happens, make sure it's you and not her who sells it.

Just some thoughts on war.

-AD

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>