MY WH was always a kind, patient and gentle person. He always had a kind word about everybody and nver got into fights.

Back in April 2004, we had words and he pushed me after I slapped him - wrong on both parts - I ended up with a dislocated shoulder. My WH has always lifted weights and is quite strong and large. I left him to impliment a makeshift Plan B on June 15, 2004 and moved 3000 miles away. My plane had not even taken off & he called his Wh*re. He then went to her gym 2 times that week - stupid fool didn't know I was checking his bank stmts. Needlessly to say - without me talking to him, seeing me & our DD3, me cleaning, cooking , etc - He missed me. He has come twice, both times staying about 2 1/2 weeks each time. He put in for a transfer (supposed to take place in Sept but the gov't is always very SLOW) to be with us. He claims all he wants is his family back and he is doing all the right things to prove his love - gave up all stmts, changed cell phone numbers, etc. He even began reading "After the Affair".

The problem is, on Christmas Eve, I had to go to his coat and get some medicine for a cold. I came across his wallet and looked through it. I found a calling card, newly purchased. When confronted he stated he bought it to call work. This I did not believe and told him so. Probably not in a very nice manner, but I certainly did not deserve what came next - he hit me - not once, but several times.

He was never violent - he is sorry and has agreed to Anger Management classes BUT? What do I do?

Does an Affair change a man so much, that he went from the most honorable man I knew to a Monster???
Am I doomed to be an abused spouse????

He is extremely depressed to think that he has become something that he never wanted to be. He says all he wants to do is to try and become a better husband, father and man. But I am afraid. What do I do?? Please help!

Am I doomed to be an abused spouse????

No. You are now 3000 miles away from him and OW. Let him move near you so that he is away from OW but take anger management classes before he lives with you.

My H broke my arm when I was threatening to call the woman with whom in fact he was having an affair, but he was violent before that. It's my choice to continue living with him. He does attend an anger management support group and started weekly therapy in October, right after he pushed our 10 year old daughter. I continue to hope but that hope is based on his willingness to continue to seek help.

Cherished

He claims he finally saw her for what she was - I always accepted her faults and embraced the good things because NO ONE is perfect. But she kept calling him, last know contact was 10/16/04, she called him.

He seems remorseful and said he would get a separate place till I felt comfortable with us being together. But his face, so full of anger - keeps haunting me. What if he is what he is - abusive?

Do you believe people can change? If so, there is hope. If not, move on.

I have quite a story. On December 5, 2001, I had a hysterectomy with repair to bladder, small intestine and rectum and was in the hospital 5 days in recovery. The child who caused all the problems was abruptly weaned the morning of the surgery -- 10 months old. My H was too busy to see me the day after surgery.

One week after he picked me up from the hospital, on December 17, 2001, he said that he was concerned that Sophia would call him to wish him a merry Christmas. (She had propositioned him in May and he had said no contact in June, but she kept calling and "it would be rude of me to hang up.") I was on lots of pain pills at the time and had a catheter bag clipped to the side of my bed. I wasn't supposed to drive for two weeks to avoid jarring. I threatened to call this woman, and he came over to the side of the bed and put up his fists. He punched me on the shoulder but before that punched away my arm.

Seven breaks in the ulna. Three surgeries, the first one on December 28th (couldn't get in before Christmas) was 1 1/2 hours under general anasthesia, same length of time as the surgery for all the pelvic floor problems. Needed pins, bone from a cadaver, and the plate. Still had a catheter bag at that point. Used a large bandage to cover the bruises on the shoulder. Cast came off with second surgery at end of February. Had splint until April 3rd.

I remember the hate in his face when he punched me.

Christ once said, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice." I believe that mercy comes of accepting remorse. What your husband is doing -- leaving OW and wanting to be near you but not with you until you feel comfortable -- seems like a very good sign.

Cherished

BB2,

Have you sought anger management as well? It is something to consider. I am by no means absolving your H from his behavior but you also resorted to physical violence and although you say you know it is wrong you did it, just as he has.

Further, if you are indeed afraid of him, then why did you antagonize him? That is a very very dumb thing to do to someone you KNOW could be violent. You pushed him and you pushed him hard and the result was he lost control. Now you are afraid of him and he is an abuser. I don't see any winners here, just losers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't think you two should be together until BOTH of you take an anger management course. You know his buttons and you know how to push them, so you are not a "safe" person for him to be around either, at least with respect to him.

I truely hope you both work at this and then decide to work on your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Cherished -

I am so sorry about your story. He was never an angry person. He told me that he thinks when he hit me, it wasn't about me, but about other things in his life - his job, the mistakes he has made , etc. My mistrust of him has made me snoop and my snooping has always made him angry. Usually because I would catch him in lies and he would still lie, clearly have been found out.

JL -

Yes, I do know how to push his buttons. Yes, I was wrong to slap him back in April - I looked at his cell phone, found a text message from his OW w/ her stating something about her bed - yes it pushed my button and yes ,I slapped him. Wrong - but I did not hit or slap back on Christmas Eve - I told him I was wrong for looking. My snooping has to stop - something that only started when he started sleeping with my former friend. I do not feel that I purposely antagonized him. I looked yes, violating his privacy, but I calmly asked to discuss the issue - he was never a violent man. One strike didn't make him a violent man. I certainly did not expect what happened after.

I have been to IC and I have been working on handling conflict. Both of us are typical conflict avoiders. And yes I am afraid, afraid for me, my husband and my DD. She was sleeping waiting for Santa when this all happened. And yes, I am afraid what we will do next. What if I snoop again - but this is a trust issue that he destroyed. Everyone in my life believes that I am a blind-trusting fool for every person that I meet and befriend.

Does that make me "unsafe"?

Try reading "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". It discusses the why behind violence and the antidote is the Policy of Joint Agreement -- don't do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

I am using a similar philosophy to get my kids to stop fighting. Here's something that happened yesterday. We bought a box of Trix. The three year old grabbed it to carry out. The five year old got upset and grabbed it. They started fighting. I got them a few feet from the checkout counter and said we are going nowhere until you are both happy. The eight year old says, "Look. One of you take one end, and the other take the other end." The clerk was laughing at all of this, but it worked. The two kids were happy as can be as they walked out, each holding one end of a Trix box.

With an affair, the BS feels like it is necessary to give up the affair partner, and the WS feels it is necessary to keep her. The solution is for the BS to meet the needs of the WS better than the affair partner ever did. Win-win. I do believe that an affair can bring out violence, but as you said, there is conflict avoidance that came before the affair.

Cherished

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

***The problem is, on Christmas Eve, I had to go to his coat and get some medicine for a cold. I came across his wallet and looked through it. I found a calling card, newly purchased. When confronted he stated he bought it to call work. This I did not believe and told him so. Probably not in a very nice manner, but I certainly did not deserve what came next - he hit me - not once, but several times.***

And now you are terrified to dare look through his things ever again -- aren't you?

He got what he wanted. He wanted to keep his separate private life with his girlfriend *and* keep you silent and out of the way while he does this -- so he made damn sure you got the message about staying out of his life.

He beats you because it works. Losing it and hitting you *once* -- well, maybe that could happen. But a separate incident where he hits you *several times* as soon as he realizes what you've found -- sorry, this is a very dangerous and very disturbed man.

Do you see how it is already escalating? First incident, he hits you once. Second incident, he hits you several times. What will provoke him a third time, and what will he do to you then?

Are you willing to live in fear of him the rest of your life? You cannot love what you fear. You need help from domestic violence professionals. There is a hotline in your city.
Call them. They will help you. Don't wait until it happens again -- because it will.
Mulan

I have been trying to write down my issues w/ him and calmly discuss them. He thinks trying to solve some of our problems over the phone, long distance is too hard.

It is so difficult for me, knowing he is only about 2 miles from the OW & she can be manipulative in a roundabout way. Something that WH has finally realized. He moved into a new apartment that she knows nothing about to help w/ my fears - while he waits for transfer. So I know that is a step toward calming my fears.

But the anger I saw in his face has me crying every night. I just purchased "Torn Asunder", waiting for it to come - so I will add that book to my list. Thank you.

Mulan -

Obviously my being a snoop has not only exposed his lies, each item I discovered this way - haunts me daily.

I was concerned that his anger was from again discovering that nothing stopped w/ OW and was just another cover-up for keeping me around OR it was just as JL said - I pushed his buttons too far.

BB2

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed by 2:
<strong> Mulan -

Obviously my being a snoop has not only exposed his lies, each item I discovered this way - haunts me daily.

I was concerned that his anger was from again discovering that nothing stopped w/ OW and was just another cover-up for keeping me around OR it was just as JL said - I pushed his buttons too far.

BB2 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, what a sad story. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE consider my advice here. I unfortunately have a lot of experience in domestic violence. I see it EVERY week of my life in my job. Any man who hits a woman EVEN ONCE will with great certainty DO IT AGAIN. I can not even begin to describe for you the extreme devestation that this has caused and the truly tragic family devestation that I have witnessed first hand that this has caused. I have seen such extreme escalating forms of abuse. I cannot even accept a man hitting a woman even once (and yes, even if you wrongly hit him first). The fact that he hit you ***several*** times on another episiode should send you running for the hills. This situation you are in CANNOT be helped by these MB principles. PLease do not rationalize his behavior becasue he got caught up with a decitful OW or that you "pushed his buttons" too far. HIs actions are his solely, and men who beat their wives require SERIOUS and INTENSE help. I am profoundly sad reading your post, because I know that you are the type of woman who will sadly end up in my trauma bay one day. Please reconsider your involvement with him in any fashion UNTILL he makes a serious personal effort to get help. If you choose to let him move back with you anytime before this (and this may take months for him to make true changes) than you are putting your life in danger. trust me on this. I may know jack $hit about marriage building, but I do know first hand about domestic abuse. Certainly much more than I ever cared to know about. PLease at least consider my advice. This has nothing to do with Marriage BUilding here.

LM

Lemonman-

Why would a normally calm, patient, gentle man now be a violent wife-beater?? Why? I am so confused.

BB2

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed by 2:
<strong> Lemonman-

Why would a normally calm, patient, gentle man now be a violent wife-beater?? Why? I am so confused.

BB2 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't have the answer for that......Please don't belive that if he can end the affair with the OW that he will no longer be a danger to you with abuse. It doesn't work like that. I am sure that being caught in an affair caused a lot of self hate and he found an outlet (beating you up twice) for his own frustartions with him self. At this point, there is NO RATIONAL REASON for his actions....simply because his actions are not rational. He needs a lot of help..........MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY so do you. YOu need to find a way to accept what he did was of his won volition and that you had NOTHING to do with what he did. YOu need to find help for your own anger issues, but this is IMO should be separate from him and recovering your marriage. Recovery of your marriage IMO is IMPOSSIBLE without recovering yourselves here. Good luck with all of this.

LM

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Well obviously, I am more of a fool than I originally believed. He just called, I asked about councilling in a very respectful way - he of course, told me I would have to deal w/my issues and it was obvious I was not going to forgive him, so we can go the other way - divorce. Before he left he agreed we needed councilling - now we can just read a book about it and it will solve itself!! Let's sweep all our problems and issues under the Rug!

Obviously, I am not that important to him! Or maybe he is still w/ her. I give up.

Don't give up. Put the ball in his court. He needs to change. I agree that abuse and an affair are two separate issues.

My husband was abusive for years, and I forgave him. When the affair came out, I realized it wasn't just a matter of forgiveness. It was a matter of his changing.

If he isn't grovelling, just go to Plan B. If he asks why, you can tell him he needs to go through a plan of recovery. If he doesn't ask why, I'm not sure it would help to explain. He may just think that you are trying to force him to do something, and abusive men think it is controlling if you want them to stop doing something that hurts you. They confuse control with consideration and care. "Don't hurt me" is controlling.

Cherished

I was getting better about the actual A. I was doing really well on my own with my DD3. I made a beautiful home and we are happy. I thought WH was coming around, saying, doing the right things, but of course there were triggers and mistrust. For the most part my leaving him was the best thing for ME! I got strong, or so I thought.

I thought we were going to be 3 again and it would be better. A moment of doubt, a moment of mistrust and I am back to crying all over again. I see the hatred in that face I love so much and I miss the man he was and wonder if he'll ever be that man.

He told me a few nights ago, every movie Hollywood puts out deals w/ infidelity and it makes him ill. It emphazises his mistakes and weaknesses and he hates himself for what he has done to us. Flash forward to tonight and it's all "MY" issues.

Why hold on? Why try to heal? Why try to get past this? Am I not better off w/o him?

He was never abusive before this - never - why now??? I am sorry for the redundancy, but I just don't understand. I just don't understand why we became "white trash". I never, ever slapped or hit anyone before.

Affairs are very powerful. If there is any desire to control on the part of the BS or justify on the part of the WS, it will come out with an affair.

Cherished

You are dealing with primal issues here -- your primal need to protect your family and his primal need (which he gave in to) to go out and get as many sex partners as he can.

It's almost as if the human side of him becomes dormant and the primal, animal side takes over. That's the hatred you saw in his face -- the face of the beast. But any man who allows the beast to take over once will do it again, *especially* because he has done this to you twice and it has worked for him both times. He got exactly the response he wanted -- you backed off, took the blame for it, and are now scared to death to confront him about his girlfriend again. That's what he wanted and he was willing to do anything to get it.

And he'll do it again.

Please, please listen to Lemonman here. This is not something that MB can solve. Even the Harleys will tell you that. You have a life-and-death situation on your hands. This is not a man who can ever be a loving husband to you. He has clearly shown that to you twice. If it happens a third time, we may not hear from you again.

Go call that domestic violence hotline. You need experts to help you with this.
Mulan

BB2,

Don't let him come to you unless he addresses the anger and the abuse. An A puts people into a lot of strange ways of looking at things, and yes the responses by the BS can be really annoying.

BUT...he needs to address this and reading a few books will NOT solve this issue. It might the A, but not the abuse. Was not kidding when I was saying you need to address your response as well. I am not blame shifting on you, but there are things to be learned and NOW is a really good time to learn them.

One doesn't know what the future holds so don't panic yet.

God Bless,

JL

I have been having a difficult time w/ this issue for the past month. We have been talking every night about getting back together and I have LBed about his "sweeping" the cause of the Affair and his belief that we can heal ourselves.

Last night, he said he was willing to do what was needed once he got back to us. He said in the meantime, he would read whatever I asked and he would work as hard as he could. He talked about having another child, going on vacations, doing more things together. He truly believes that we can have a great life. He knew something was eating away at me and last night I cried and he cried.

Then tonight, I told him I wanted to work on our marriage as well as our anger issues - both of ours. He got defensive - something that just makes me believe he has this need to hide something.

I know I have to address my response to his betrayal - violence is not acceptable for any reason. I do not know why I lashed out, there is NO excuse.

I just want this pain to end. I want the man I loved. I want the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids and the dog. I want all the evil and hurt to go away. Haven't I had enough hurt for one person?