T

<small>[ January 29, 2005, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

deleted per request.

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

The

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

deleted per request.

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Or

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Dear Cherished:

I don't know what to say to you. You sound so worn out. Tired from the struggle...You have tried so much, but with all this time that has passed now, your love and Tom's have gotten less and less.

I know how awful a life in an unhappy M can be. You and I had to deal with violence, mental and physical. I hope that your session with both therapists will help to find a way for you.

Whatever happens in the end you know that you have tried all there was to try. Except one thing...I have mentioned that to you before, Cherished...Can you let go of your anger? You still write every time about the broken arm. Did you ever try to forgive, truly forgive Tom for that.

I found it easy to forgive my H for the violence, when he showed his caring, loving side to me. It is so much harder to forgive someone who continues to behave unloving to you.

It seems to me that you and Tom are in a vicious cycle. He continues to be unloving, you hold on to your anger and you fuel each other's resentment.

With my M, we got out of that cycle with our MC. Things are generally happy and peaceful until H slips back to being uncaring, tired from work, nasty. Then we have to try and work it out with our new communication skills and sometimes I just want to kick him out the door.

I hope so much, that you will feel better and happier, Cherished, no matter what the outcome of your M may be.

Hugs,
Your friend

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Hey C,

Do you need me to delete my post? Let me know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Orchid,
That was a kind offer. Yes, please do.
Cherished

C,

Done. Let me know if you need more. I can share my addy if you'd like.

take care,
L.

I appreciate the support. What it comes down to is that the ball is in his court. I just need to keep my chin up while he decides if I'm worth his time and effort.

Cherished

A W is worth her H's time and effort and visa versa. So that is not a valid question. If it is, then there are much bigger issues under the surface.

L.

Yes, I agree. Our marriage has simply not improved. Yesterday, Tom's therapist recommended marriage counseling. Let's see -- we've already gone through two and tried the MB program. I'm just not up for MC #3. This has me up at 3 in the morning.

Cherished,

I'm sorry you are up so early and feeling a heavy heart. My prayers are with you

Thank you for your prayers. I am going to focus on four children who are smart, healthy, and emotionally damaged. It's up to Tom to change Tom.

Cherished

Result of joint therapy session was to have more, of course, but also to e-mail each other. I sent Tom an e-mail yesterday at about 3 and told him I had sent one. No response. Last night, I printed it out and gave it to him. He told me he was busy at work and I was bullying him into responding by e-mail. I went to bed. Right now I feel like I could be sick. How do you respond to being called a bully?
Cherished

C,

He is being disrespectful..... he called you a bully, then you have 3 choices:

1. Be a bully. He can't say more than that. He already accused you of it.

2. Beg for more abuse.

3. Walk away from the chaos. Do not deal with him until he learns to treat you with respect. Ask him if he thinks he is a __________ (whatever you feel best desribes his actions or lack there of).

I am sorry he is doing this to you. From what you have said now and before, he isn't ready for recovery. He needs t/b alone with himself. At least away from bringing you more hurt.

What of his ENs are you filling that makes him feel adequate?

L.

He says his most important EN is admiration. Harley last year told me that people are admired when they meet their spouse's ENs. His second most important EN is SF. Well, I did go ahead and start having sex with him when we started MB. At one point, he said it wasn't that important to him because it's a physical need and he can get it met with masturbation. His third most important EN is domestic support, and I am working on organizing the house. At the joint session, we got in a long discussion about the buckets I got for the closet and how he hadn't been consulted before I got them so he was in the posiiton of vetoing their use and I said I brought htem home for him to see and have no problem returning them since I return stuff to Target all the time. Two therapists, and what can we try to talk about but $1 buckets from Target.

I walked away last night. Last week, I had asked my D if she had heard us talking and she said she had covered her head because it's always "bad talk." I cannot subject her to that.
Cherished

C,

I dont' think he really knows what his priority is on his ENs. What he does do however is look for ways to irritate you. Your daughter seems to know this also. Probably others do to.

My WS used to do this. I finally sat him down and told him if he wanted to find something wrong with me, not to keep trying so hard. I would tell him if it would make him happier. Then I reversed babbled more and told him his happiness was important to my son and I. If he was happy picking on me, he could do that but then I would make choices where we (son and I w/b when he does).

Oooh loved his reaction. That hazed fog literally came over his eyes.... he didn't know how to take what I said.... on the one end he wanted me t/b miserable, but I told him that I wanted him t/b happy if and making me miserable made him happy, he could do it. Double whammy!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then I got a serious and said I was not taking his anger crap anymore. If he wanted t/b angry with me and pick fights he had that right but didn't mean I would fight in a way he expected. So I gave fair warning with no outline. He basically had to guess what that meant which means he had to move his gray cells (something that doesn't happen much in the fog). It drove him crazy when I wouldn't tell him what I would or wouldn't do. I left it up in the air but he knew something would happen and it depended on how he acted.

He slowed down picking on me and eventually (after a few months), he learned picking on me wasn't satisfying a need. In fact he became irritated at himself. He would apologize to me more and when he did get angry, he removed himself until he calmed down. He also would warn me when his anger level would go up so we could get out of his way.

In time he has learned to control it to the point that now he actually enjoys being around us and we him. In fact he tells us how much he misses us and shows it. He found out that apologies are not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength. He isn't as afraid to apologize for his mistakes now.

Hope this helps.
L.

Nonengagement starves emotional reactivity.

I guess that's what I'm doing. Harley would call it withdrawal. He came at me this afternoon to say that all I do is blame him and I'm "far from perfect." It is draining. We're supposed to send emails back and forth to each other as a way to reduce the likelihood of escalation.

Cherished

<small>[ January 29, 2005, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>