OK, making a few assumptions here, but here goes: Assuming MC session goes reasonably well (ie: no revelations of him totally lying to me every day this week by still seeing OW or engaging in other unacceptable behvior including personal ads and additional OW)

How do I formulate a "good" Plan A with a man who is obviously still foggy and tends to wax and wane in his mood. We have been best friends for almost 18 yrs and he still turns to me for way more than he should considering what he has done and is claiming to want.

Currently I have not given him any financial support, not paying any of his sole bills, not offering him money, etc... Is this consistent with Plan A? I have read it BTW, got both books, still not sure what is Plan A and what is "doormat". Done the doormat thing for too long and it is part of the problem!

Here are some scenarios I have encountered this week: (keep in mind his #1 complaint is that I treat him likea child, parent him)

1) He is overdrawn on his checking acct, has little money to show for anything right now, I have not helped him bring this up to date.
2) He brought over his laundry to wash it and it sat done in the washer for two visits until I said something about it, normally I would have dried it and even folded it for him.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
3) He is complaining alot about his lower back hurting, and I am finding it very hard to sympathize, wanna say "well if you were screwing around..." So far just saying "sorry you are hurting" which isn't exactly true... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
4) He is having a spinal injection Monday, wants me there. I have agreed so far but am uneasy about this.
5) His bitrthday is Monday, he wants us all to go out to dinner as a family, said this to me several times, says he "really means that"... whatever that means...
6) The older two kids keep coming to me with anger and frustration wioth their Dad, I try to encourage them to get their feeligns out,to talk to them. DD,13 finally did somewhat, but DS,11, is afraid tohurt his Daddy... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Where is my place in this? (I do let them vocalize to me, actually encourage it, but shouldn't HE know these things if they are about him?)

OK, that's enough for now, must head out.

Plan A is tough in your situation because you seem close to losing all your love and sound like you are thinking of all the excuses NOT to Plan A.

Think of Plan A as making YOURSELF a better person.

Cut out all LB's, entirely, forever. This goes for all your R too...kids, family, friends, everyone. But most especially your H. Show him you can be respectful and loving.

Then start concentrating on fulfilling his top 3 EN's. Watch out, it sounds like you have been very giving in the past, and your Taker isrearing her head...doesn't want to fulfill those needs...don't worry, I don't think you'll have to do it long...give yourself a time limit. When will you move to Plan B? But before you do, do your DARNDEST to fulfill the top THREE EN's. Why just THREE? You'll kill yourself if you try to fulfill much more, and if you are not fulfilling those top three EN's and working hard on fulfilling others, then you are spinning your wheels.

What are his top THREE? Probably Admiration, SF, Affection/Attention and Domesticity...just a thought.

How do you keep from feeling like a doormat? Give yourself a time limit until you will move to Plan B. One Month? One week? Can you hold out at least 6 weeks? And think about what YOU are getting out of it...this will appease your Taker...you are becoming a better person, a better W, a better friend, if not for him, then for the next H.

But most importantly, have you exposed the A to everyone who cares? Especially people close to the OW?

OK, how do you deal with him taking you for granted. He brings his laundry over...you make a big deal about doing it...for instance.
"I saw you brought your laundry downstairs, do you want me to do it? Do you want me to put in fabric softener or bleach? How do you want me to sort it afterwards?" This will, very nicely, point out to him all that goes in to laundry and the special care you take in it.

OK, his back is hurting...your Taker is screaming at you, "Stupid fool, what about the hurt I'm going through, don't you have sympathy for me?" BUT, use this time to deposit in his love bank...say to him, "Oh sweetie, what can I do? Do you want a back rub or lay down and I'll bring you hot tea? I know you hate to see me sick and hurt, and I hate to see you sick and hurt too."

Yep, kill him with kindness. The sweeter you are, the worse his guilt will feel. And hte more deposits you put in his love bank, the more he'll miss those deposits in Plan B.

I had a hard time in Plan A because I felt I didn't have much to give (Dr. Harley says often women can't stay in Plan A very long because we are worn out from being so giving up till now). I had been working hard at saving the M alone, but I had been spinning my wheels and working hard at LBing my way back in his heart...yep, didn't work...glad I found this site.

Well all the best laid plans...

I call and he is out our house already, he tells me it costs $40 to get 25 pain pills (I threw his others out the window last week, but I did payfor them!) and he says something derogatory. I say "we are not going to talk if you are going to drag up things to beat me up with" and he says "not hard" so I hang up.

I get home, sit down and say "I want to talk to you, but not if you are going to drag up things to attack me with" He apologizes, says he needs time to think about things MC said, like it will take a commitment on his part as well as mine, but we can have the "perfect marriage" we both want. He is still saying there are "things I don't agree with", like God's word that He intends us to be together for life. He is trying to mold the Word to fit what he wants and "feels" right now, yet claiming to want to grow into a good Christian man. The MC told him it is not about what he feels, but what the Lord says...

Anyway... I spoke to the gym mgr today, she told me that someone else started speaking about OW's pregnancy and that they are sure she was lying. I feel the exact same way, but have not spoken to any of these people about it, though I did tell WH I beleived that she was lying about it all. I told him about this becasue I know SHE will hear it eventually and want to blame me. I wanted WH to hear it from me before it gets back to him and he believes the mess.

He got very angry, said he is tired of all these people talking about her (OW) behind her back. They are apparently talking about her alot and he is mad that they are being "ninnies" about her but not talking about him?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I told him this was normal, human nature... esp for women. I also told him that he needs to realize that she has been playing alot of drama up since she got there (the MM "fiancee" she was supposedly pregnant with, the "abusive" ex husband, the MM's W calling up there mad cause OW is calling her house from there, and then her A w/ my WH) He left here pissed at me about her cause "she did nothing to deserve this"!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Uh, yeah, she's a saint with all the MM she's sleeping with, poor thing!

He calls me back and says he is sending an email to the owner of the gym...OK, what for? Wellhe says he is going to tell them to "knock it off"...I said, yep, that'll work! I keep asking him "if you don't care about her then why are you trying to defneding her honor"... I already know that answer!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well he went to the gym to "talk to someone", basically one of the people spreading the rumors. What is sad,is that most ofwaht is being said is 100% true. He keeps talking about the way things are spreading, etc... well if you didn't have an A w/ a woman at work we wouldn't have this problem, now would we?!

OK, now really do want to KILL HIM with kindness!!

I know, if I can get my head a litlte clearer (a few more days on this AD) then I can move forward some. Actaully returned many phone calls today (been avoiding everyone) and left the house, even took the girls shopping and to dinner. And tomorrow, by God, I amgoing to work!!! Yeah!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Any feedback or thoughts form others on the above issues?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OK, now really do want to KILL HIM with kindness!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LMFAO Momma....I'm feelin' ya <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My day has been going really well....but my daughter just called my WH...and although he's been talking his @ss off to me all day, decides against speaking to me this evening....okily dokily then.....no big, whatever, stupid OW face is probably at his house. That's fine, enjoy it while you can b*tch.

LMAO I keep thinking of all these one liners I can say to her if she ever confronts me, because I flippin' know my WH is going to pick me....hello.

I thought of saying stuff like "Awwwww did he pick me with the ruined credit and the lazy @ss housekeeping (Her words), over you with the clean house and the sparkling credit?? Hmmmm you must suck in bed" LMFAO

I don't know that I'll ever get to use them, but hell, they're fun to make up...LOL

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

OK girl, you are bad!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WH called back, he is coming back over here to talk some more. He sounds more calm, soI am hopeful. He is refusing to move back in now, he is like a darned kid... Mom: "do this" Kid: I don't want to and you can't make me" (stomping defiantly!)

Seriously, this is exactly how we are relating these days! Geez. I really do like the picture the MC painted, it all seems so nice. A H that loves and protects his W like Christ loved the Church... I could get on board with that, but he refuses to take those few extra steps to committ toworking on it. I am asking for nothing more at this point... just committ to working on this M. It aggravates me that I am not worthy of that.

Oh yeah, WH did say in MC that 14 years ago he had decided we were not getting married that weekend (he was a Marine and being depolyed in Desert Storm/ Shield) but I "convinced" him otherwise so he did it and "it has been like that ever since"!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WTH??? Is that not mean or what?

Yep, I am the almighty powerful W, able to lead unwilling men to do my bidding... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (yeah,I wish!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Seriously, this is exactly how we are relating these days! Geez. I really do like the picture the MC painted, it all seems so nice. A H that loves and protects his W like Christ loved the Church </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Momma- do you know how many times I've read that exact same passage and thought the same thing....it must be nice.

-Caren

Yeah well fantasy being what it is and all...

OK guys, HELP!! I am at work, it is kinda quiet, head is starting to clear and I am getting sick to my stomach thinking of WH and OW! GAG!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I hate this!! I want to puke, it should have NEVER happened again!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Seriously, I am walking around here trying to choke it down. I hate this part!! I do know that I eventually got to the point before that it didn't feel like this, seeing them together in my head over and over...I do realize this can and will pass... I guess in some small way that helps, but I am feeling so sick right now!

This is where the aftermath of waves starts crashing over my head, except this time I do not quite have WH home and trying to make it all better. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Breathe... in and out, in and out...

He did come back last night, was there til almost 1am watching TV. I went to bed around 11pm, only remember him leaving cause baby girl was still up and he put her bed with me. After a few minutes she wanted to call him and I let her.

Today I have spoken to him a couple of times. The next to the last time he called be "babe" before he got off the phone. I called him back and just said "you know I still love you, right?" and he seemed a little (pleasantly) surprised and said "I love you too". Have no idea what that means or where it is going, just thought he should know I was having a moment of "warm fuzzies"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

But here is the part where the anger comes away some and all this pain and sadness is revealed. I would almost rather have the anger, in some ways I can control that part better!

He reiterated to me last night that he does not love her, but he does "care about her feelings", whatever! I am waiting for the day she is revealed to him in full light for the evil whore she really is!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That would make me feel so much better! So sad, but true. He also says he will do the "homework" the MC gave us: describe the "perfect" marriage... if you could wake up tomorrow and it be everything you wanted, what would that look like? He seems to think he will have a harder time with that than I will, probably right.

I also told him I miss feeling special to him. There was a time, long ago, when I felt very loved and protected by this man. When no other man could even come up and talk to me without some jelious looks and my H walking right up and standing near his "special prize". I told him I want THAT back.

The MC described in bibkical times a man placing a robe over his new bride to show love, protection and ownership... but ownership in a loving way, "this is so special to me that I want no one else to touch it" sorta thing. I miss that terribly!! I now realize that over the time since H's accident and the role reversals, that sense of balance, that sense of protetionism, has been lost. THAT is what I want back in my life. In some small way I believe it is possible... even just the faith of a mustard seed...

Well I am home now. I am actually incredibly proud of myself! I made it through the evening without any LBs!!! OK, he was only here 45 minutes after I got home from work, but it was still peaceful. Gotta savor those little victories! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I spoke with a close family friend tonight, she is like a surrogate mother...my own Mom has come right out and opened her mouth and said my H would molest my children!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> My mom is psycho BTW, so please don't buy that crap. She also told me my father did not molest me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> She is dillusional at best...

Anyway, this friend has been there, done that including leaving an abusive spouse who had multiple As. She eventually found love and had a M of her dreams, in the true Christian sense... but it was short. Her beloved H died of liver cancer a 2 1/2 years ago. Still, she gave me the courage to stay the course, to stand by what I believe and insist upon having the M I deserve and nothing less. If WH can't give me that, then I deserve it from someone else....

I looked him right in the eye the entire time he was here. Looked right at him when he was talking about his day. If he is going to break this family up, it is not because I did not give it everything I have and then some. May God bless you all, keep praying...it can be done!! I do believe!! OK, and if not with him than another soul... right?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Momma'sSad:
<strong> Yeah well fantasy being what it is and all...

OK guys, HELP!! I am at work, it is kinda quiet, head is starting to clear and I am getting sick to my stomach thinking of WH and OW! GAG!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I hate this!! I want to puke, it should have NEVER happened again!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Seriously, I am walking around here trying to choke it down. I hate this part!! I do know that I eventually got to the point before that it didn't feel like this, seeing them together in my head over and over...I do realize this can and will pass... I guess in some small way that helps, but I am feeling so sick right now!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try this image on next time you get 'movie vision'.

Imagine her wearing your favorite caricature mask (a smiling Clinton is my favorite), and him with a feather duster stuck in his butt.

Maybe that will short circuit a bit of the pain.

All the best,
Gimble

<small>[ January 29, 2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

Well, that ought to cure just about anything that ails you!! LOL! That is wrong on so many levels... thanks for the visual!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />