I have wondered something. When D-day hit I wa sdevastated IN PART I think because I was in no way independent of my Squid. I was half of what I thought was a co-dependecy. I was wrong of course, because Squid independently chose an affair. When she withdrew I collapsed over, unbalanced.

I am wondering if such dependent behaviour from a BS is a contributor to affairs or just that naievely dependend BS suffer more devastation on d-day but that behaviour is not a contributor to WS infdelity.

Bob...
I was dependent on my WH also. I had actually quit my job and everything so that I could be home with our son. When he left me it devastated me emotionally as well as financially.

I'm standing on my own two feet now and doubt that I will ever depend on a man again....at least not for a long time to come!

Bob, I was dependent both emotionally and financially.

I can tell you that the emotional dependency was a HUGE factor in him choosing to have the affair.

But this is the really sucky thing about that. He fostered that dependence. He "took care of me" in all ways. He encouraged me to lean on him, to let him take care of me. Then when I really did depend on him so heavily emotionally...he didn't want it and he felt the weight of that responsibility.

It depends on how you look at it...Financially, yes I was and still am dependant on my WH...

Emotionally, I was not at all dependant on him...neither of us were...which is why the A happened in the first place...But instead of working out between US, he chose to just cross the line...

Oh my gosh - the absolutely worst part of the affair was that I thought my life was absolutely over if he wasn't in it.

I had spent my whole marriage focused so totally on him that I didn't know who I was. I didn't believe I could be ok emotionally or financially.

Now I am both =) And my husband likes me a whole lot more as a result!

Hi Bob,

I'm afraid I was much like you. Thinking that with marriage two had become one. It was not until I began to recover from the shock and trauma of betrayal, that (again like you) I understand that I was alone and the most any marriage partner could aspire to was two individuals shoulder to shoulder in their life together.

It was a much needed (but very painful) epiphany.

I was not dependent, neither emotionally nor financially.
He respected (and still respects) that part of me very much.

Co-dependency can contribute to infidelity a lot, but it's the same with independency; it just depends on what kind of people is involved...

To live with an independent woman, a man has to be strong too, or to feel good enough about himself if not.
In my case, he needed someone he can 'sell cheap goods for a high price', someone (weaker then himself) who will make him feel stronger, he needed a needy one...
And that was good to him just for a short period of time...
He's afraid of the depth, yet so quickly bored with the shallowness...)

Of course, this was just a part of 'circumstances'...

Bob

FWW and I had grown to live two completely independant lifestyles. She had church, clubs, groups, shopping, etc. and I had work, golf, fishing, etc. We did some things together, but it wasn't a priority. As we grew more distant in our leisure time activities, our marriage became weaker, and finally, vulnerable to an A. Neither of us was co-dependant, we just became totally independant.

Now, we spend much more time together, both doing routine household chores, shopping, hanging out, and more "dating", dinners, show's (just saw Seinfeld "live!) and movies.

What a difference a little positive prioritization can make!

Best wishes,
SD

PS: Talking about dependency... it's much harder for those people to deal with their S infidelity (As), separation, divorce...

Btw, in more then 90% cases (after reading BS's stories) I can recognize if BS is emotionally or financially (or both) dependent on their WS...

I don't think I was necessarily dependant, per se, I was more like BrambleRose, I focused completely on him for so long that I don't even know who the hell I am anymore.

I am completely devastated by this, it is all encompassing, and I would have NEVER said I would be this way.....but he's the only man I've ever loved.

-Caren

Bob,

I think it depends on how you view your WS's infidelity. In my case, the A was 100% my choice.....however the vulnerability of the M was each of our responsibilities.

Co-dependency, IMVHO, affects the M as a whole. Either one (WS or BS) or both partners can be co-dependent....and that means at least one partner is unhealthy. And I think at this point we know that an unhealthy partner creates vulnerability in the M.

However, my choice to have an A instead of resolving my M first, can only be attributed to my lack of strength to stand up for myself. And co-dependency had an affect on that as well. So in my particular case, co-dependency was a factor for my personal weakness, as well as dual co-dependency in our M - contributing to our vulnerability.

I think it is important to note that the co-dependency can also be present in the WS as well. When my H began to ignore me, and treat me badly, I felt like I had no support. The one pillar I had leaned against all these years suddenly crumbled. Being co-dependent, I did not have enough to hold myself up. At that time, OM came along, and offered to be my pillar. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am ashamed, remorseful, and saddened that I chose to lean on OM instead of on myself. And I owe that to my co-dependent role in our M. Which is why I must always maintain a system of checks and balances to make certain that I don't fall into a co-dependent pattern again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

At the time, I was trying to encourage FU to take some responsibility for herself and our lives.

I have mostly felt that she was perfectly happy letting me see that everything that needed done, got done.(That is beginning to change, slowly, btw.)

She would spend a great deal of time worrying loudly and visibly about our finances and HER dreams and desires, but at the time I was aware of no real actions to try to address the problems. OF course, she was getting her support elsewhere, so there might have been things that I didn't know about.

At any rate, I am sure that it felt TO HER like I was very dependant upon her. I do not believe I was or am, honestly, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

That is practicality there. Emotionally, yeah, I relied on her. I felt even before D-Day that her emotional bond with me was mostly lip service, but I was stupid and settled for what I thought was all she had to offer. Turns out that it was just all she had to offer ME. She was, from what I have read, very supportive of several of the OM.

I have always sort of thought that sadness and hurt come from others, but that happiness and contentment I have to find for myself. I had began to believe that it was okay to invest of myself into someone else, and find a different joy in our interactions.

Now, I figure I was right to begin with.

-OAK

For me, ditto to Caren's comment.

I am financially able to make it on my own (though it'd be very hard without child support), and for the most part, I took care of all the business aspects of the marriage such as bills, taxes, purchases, etc. He didn't want to be involved.

But I was so involved in who he was and his life and trying to make him happy, that I never learned who I was.

LL

I agree with LIT !

I think most often, its not just one partner who's dependent (I mean for their sense of identity - I'm not talking about finances or practical things).

I didn't know that it was possible to be completely myself and still be intimate with H, by not letting his feelings, his opinions, his 'world' overwhelm me, to the point where i sometimes felt that the only way to be 'me' was to 'run away'. Maybe he even felt the same. Its hard work to balance self-awareness, the courage to be completely open and honest about yourself, supporting yourself emotionally, as well as others, knowing your limitations and asking for help when you need it, with the reality of being a couple. Because it was sometimes hard, I thought there might have been something terribly wrong with our R, or that maybe it was H's fault, and that just led to more avoidance, and the problems somehow got blown out of proportion in my head.

So I guess my point, Bob, is that you weren't necessarily wrong about Squid also being dependent. Maybe her dependency fears were part of the reason why she felt a need for 'space'. Its tragic that she chose this kind of 'space'.

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: smur ]</small>

I was totally dependent. I agree with whoever said it above -- I had pretty much given up myself in favour of becoming part of an "us". My worst failure was allowing myself to become defined by my role as TBXWW's husband. I gave up a number of things that I enjoyed, things that made my life better, in the misguided belief that I didn't need them or couldn't afford to commit time to them, because I now had to commit that same time and energy to her.

The problem with doing that is that, if your marriage ends, you suddenly feel like your life is meaningless. Which is why it's such a bad idea to allow yourself to be defined by something that can be taken away against your will. Define yourself by who YOU are first. In the first few weeks and months of newly-singledom, I had to repeatedly remind myself that I had been complete before I ever met her, and that I could be again. The difficulty was that I didn't know where to start. The year and a bit since then has been something of a voyage of rediscovery.

I definitely won't make that same mistake the next time around. I will hold fast to those things that make me uniquely "me", because without them, I'm just living for somebody else, and that's no way to live.

"Don't compromise yourself. You're all you've got."
-- Janis Joplin

Reading over this thread, I am struck by how similar we seem to all feel.

I guess I am lucky in a way that FU and I have only been together for about 3 years now. I had a really strong sense of self going into our M, and we hadn't been together long enough to do much but blunt that. Once the shock cleared, at least.

I do feel that with the exception of our son(who makes up for everything else <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), that the time we had together pre-D-day was wasted. Stolen from me.

The downside is that my emotional attachment to her wasn't as deep as more time would have allowed. I feel myself withdrawing from her, keeping my distance feeling-wise. I know that this is a very common defense mechanism, but I am trying to work through it. She tells me often how frustrating it is to her that I am not "over it", since according to her she has changed completely and will never do such things again. I try to explain that I do appreciate her words, but her actions carry more weight with me. And that it will take both being on the up and up for a pretty good length of time before she can regain my respect, much less my trust. And I told her just after D-day #2 that if she ever felt that it was not worth the effort, she knows where the door is and is welcome to use it. Haven't repeated that for months now, know it would be an LB, but I think it was pretty important that I established the boundary that I would see her out of my life before I would settle for less than 100%.

I dunno, after having been through the fallout from her poor choices, I am just not willing to settle for less than all or nothing. I know myself well enough to realise that I will have to see that she is capable of real commitment and devotion before she has that again from me without reservation. Maybe that is disrespectful, but to me it is just good sense.

Eh, day at a time, day at a time.

-OAK

Interesting feedback, all. Thanks.

I have examined my own feelings in the light of some of your comments here.


I was NOT dependent on Squid for everything BUT I placed an unbearable burden on her. She was 50% of my dreams, hopes, history, happiness and very IDENTITY.

Mechanically I could live withouther ( as I did, with her in the same house for 3 months post d-day) but i found my identity broken.

I was Husband, father, manager, friend never BOB.

I truth I leaned on everyone in my life to help define new traits of my personality without ever being happy within myself. Not knowing myself as not reflected in others.

I have a servent heart, but ONLY MEANINGFUL when serving. When not, nothing but a person waiting for an opportunity to serve.

Wow. I am not so articulate at this but inever realised how truly f*cked up I was.
STill am to some extent.

The 'new' Bob is self sufficiant but I am not sure I have a positive self image yet. I was worthy Bob the friend, husband, manager. Now I am the unworthy Bob abandoned by wife, friends who became useless when I needed THEM for once and in fact my MANAGER was the most help to me of ANYONE other than the heroes on this site.

My current identity is a thwarted m dreadfully injured and repaired OLD Bob, not a whole new Bob.

I could no more live a fulfilled life without my 'good ol' Bob' roles than I could walk on water.

Wow.

I need to focus on ME soon, not just REMEDIAL fixing of my hurt but an EXPLORATION of who I am when NOT defined by others needfulness or appreciation of me.

Maybe its a bad thing to marry so young: to become half a couple before I myself had chance to grow whole.

Not sure how to progress with this.

Pray I guess.

Keep the feedback coming please folks, this is fascinating.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by b0b pure*:
<strong>I need to focus on ME soon, not just REMEDIAL fixing of my hurt but an EXPLORATION of who I am when NOT defined by others needfulness or appreciation of me.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good call there. REAl good.

Figuring out who we are is the first step to being able to seeing how to get to who we want to be, if you ask me.

Thanks for starting this thread, btw. I am liking seeing everyone's thoughts one this. It occurs to me as well that maybe we have to be a solid I before we can be part of a healthy WE.

I understand the pleasure in serving others. I love how it feels to help someone else(wish I were better at it). But charity starts at home...and just from what I know of you from your posts, I am thinking that charity towards yourself would be harder than charity towards others. Might be way off base there, feel free to correct me!

Nothing like challenging oneself to see exactly how high you can fly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All the best!

-OAK

Totally!!! So much so, I thought that life would not continue without him...how wrong both of us were. One of the reasons WH left was because I was not independent; relied on him to do this and that, and that it was oppressive and it smothered him. It took me a while to realize that the things that he did do were not going to get done in my condition. So, I just stood up and took over the reigns. I have my own house, pay bills on my own, own MY car, do things with the kids, and started living life again. It was hard, but I did do it. I refuse, for any reason, to be dependent on anyone...only because it really does "limit" your ability to actively participate in a marriage. In spite of working full-time, going to school part-time in the evening, and taking children, much of my dependence was due to lack of self-esteem and believing I couldn't do things. How the tides have changed. While I'm now totally independent, my WH is "supposedly" making attempts to end his A with a person who he completely is dependent upon. She pays his bills, she calls in for his medicine and doctor appointments, she does this and that for him. Kinda of funny how things work, doesn't it?

Yes, I was way to dependent on my husband to meet my needs. I've learned much in the years since the affair.

I've learned to look to God first to meet the deepest needs of my heart and life. With my focus on Him, I am a much more confident, strong woman.

I am a work in progress and am continually seeking to grow and learn. I'm on a journey of discovery of who I truly am and how to be the best person I can be.

My H is a very strong, powerful individual. It was too easy to be dependent on him. To a certain extent he encouraged that by his overwhelming need to be in control.

My challenge is to bring balance to the many unbalanced areas in our relationship. It still remains to be seen whether that can be accomplished.

Either way I will be okay because I have learned I can live without H in my life. As much as I may WANT him in my life, I don't NEED him in my life. There is a difference. It has taken many painful years to come to this place.

Thanks for an interesting thread!