I love to start new threads. Drives you all nuts. Anyway, after the rants in my last thread, thought I'd start another one that I thought would be appropriate for the General Questions category. If you establish a strong Plan A, and stick with it, you can throw huge monkey wrenches into your WS's plans.

Tonight I found out. After ranting my silly mind off on the "MM, JL, Orchid" thread, I had a revelation tonight that I would like to share with anyone doubting Dr Harley's techniques, or having doubts about their problems.

I vented tonight on purpose on my other thread because I felt so much anger that I knew I would be no good if she should show up. I wanted to get it out. I recommend a new topic: "Rants and Vents" or something like that where we can get rid of anger. I did not want my emotions to cloud my conversation tonight with my wife when she got home.

And sure enough, the first thing she did when she got home was to start talking about how our youngest DS would miss the oldest DS. I didn't say a thing, just nodded. She said "You're not saying anything". Staying perfectly calm, although boiling inside, I said, "Well, you're talking about splitting up our children. What do you think I would be saying?"

She looked at me for a while and then said, "well, I'm so confused, I'm not sure what I'm going to do -I'm just thinking things thru." I said, "I understand," but said no more. Then she said, "Let's not talk about divorcing anymore tonight". I said, "OK, I didn't want to anyway" She looked at me with a very strange look and then went out to start studying in the living room.

Stay calm, remember that your spouse has no idea what is going on, and need you to be there as a guide - the lighthouse. They can't see out of that fog. Stay as calm as a rock and as bright as a lighthouse - show them where they belong.

And rant on THESE BOARDS ONLY! Never with your spouse....

The reason I brought this up was because I wanted to point out that as long as you show your spouse that you care about them, but will not accept anthing related to the affair, you will raise huge doubts in their already confused minds, and by remaining calm, steady and reasuring (never self-righteous or haughty) they will see you in a new way, and it should make thenm doubt their decisions.

One more humorous note: I left MB up on my laptop last night when I left for work - on the message boards. It's driving my wife nuts as to why I am so calm in the middle of this (she doesn't realize I'm on Xanax and Prozac, and rant on here regularly) and she keeps going thru my stuff trying to find out why...she saw one of my conversations with somone, and brought up the question as to why I didn't talk to her the same way. I told her I was absolutely willing to...but she has to drop the OM first...

David

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Hey David,

Great job!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I never had that much self control... didn't know about MB when I found out about my W's first A...

You're doing good.... you might want to search for Orchid's reverse babble techniques too... not sure where they are, but if you search on her name, you should find them in her sig line...

Semper Fi,
RIF

oooops

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RIF:
<strong> Hey David,

Great job!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I never had that much self control... didn't know about MB when I found out about my W's first A...

You're doing good.... you might want to search for Orchid's reverse babble techniques too... not sure where they are, but if you search on her name, you should find them in her sig line...

Semper Fi,
RIF </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rif, so far I suck at RB. Wish I could do better...When she getsback from her sabbatical I'll ask for a little more training. My wife is a lot smarter than I am...

David

David, "smarter" is like "better". It is a relative thing, not an absolute. Those terms are a little demeaning to the one they are addressed towards.

Don't belittle yourself. No DJ's of YOURSELF either. Improve yourself where you see the opportunity, but don't kick yourself in the teeth. Life will do that for you.

And I gotta say, sounds like you are handling things just right. Keep up the good work, and reap the rewards in yourself regardless of the outcome.

All the best!

-OAK

David,

I am soooo proud of U!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You got it. Really you got it. Now how you proceed will hurt.....less. It will still hurt and it will still be hard but now you have a plan. You see how it works.

YIPEE!!!!! Now we gotta wait for the BIG guns (JL/MM, etc.) to stop by and give their 2 cents. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You made my night. Cuz, other than seeing Melody Lane return, it's been a crappy day (waiting to hear about a job and the days feel like weeks. LOL!!! ).

Keep up the good work.

All the best,
L.

Orchid - it was so good to hear from you - and thanks for the encouragment...

Now if only I could get past feeling so absolutely lonely...

Anyway, got a huge day tomorrow. Hell starts tomorrow (I see the lawyer about divorce papers and custody) after which I have to confront her once again with news that she may either be extatic about or lose all control. I wish she'd just drop it all and love me again, without all the pain.

I'm glad Melody Lane is back - everyone was so happy that I take it she is well loved here. That's something I love about this board....

David

Remember David, regardless of what her reaction w/b, you are doing these things to protect you and your family.

If she is postive then good. If she goes berzerko.....have a back up plan. It probably w/b better if she is notifed in a business manner. Don't warn her by being nice. Better to let her get served. When it happens m/b better if you are not around.

JMHO,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> Remember David, regardless of what her reaction w/b, you are doing these things to protect you and your family.

If she is postive then good. If she goes berzerko.....have a back up plan. It probably w/b better if she is notifed in a business manner. Don't warn her by being nice. Better to let her get served. When it happens m/b better if you are not around.

JMHO,
L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's what she's going to do: First, break into tears, cry her eyes out, then blow up. I may not see her for a couple of days. She most likely will spend the time commiserating with her insects....I mean friends. And then she will end up cuddling with OM getting all helped and all. Then she will start working on a counterplan. However, I don't thnk she can afford it. For some reason, I think she spent all her money, and I can't figure on what - I thought she had retained a lawyer, but from some things she has said earlier, she doesn't have one yet - just keeps talking about how to split the kids up without hurting them. The idiot. (Ooops - did I actually type that?) I do know she has bought some really fancy clothes and a lot of Victoria's Secret stuff, so that may be what she's doing.

She flipped out the other day when she spilled water into her laptop - wanted me to fix it. I told her she had plenty of money - hire someone to do it, or buy a new one (my old carreer was computer repair). She mentioned agan she couldn't afford it. I do know that she is holding onto some money looking for a house for her and the kids...

Well, I used to be really concerned about her studying and getting good grades in school - but as time has worn on - and I've seen that this infatuation has consumed her, I think it would be fitting if she had to drop out of law school to start making money, or add a job to her already busy schedule of study, OM and parties....

Dang, I'm turning cold!

It's not that I don't care about her - I just would like to see her face some consequences for once without someone bailing her out. She's gonna lose her nickname eventually. I'm tired of it...Used to think it was cute to have a Princess to 'serve' - "There's a lump in the bed - you need to fix it" or "I need more coffee". But I'm pretty much too tired of that now. Let OM take care of that. That'll fly for sure! Heh heh.

David

Oh lord, it's time to head to my atty to start the process. I'm panicking. I don't want this at all!

David,

Hope the lawyer trip was a good one. You are getting it. Calm, relentless, and focused. Don't let her change your focus. By the way, what is very very clear is that she is NOT smarter than you or she would NOT be in this mess. Further, you are probably correct with all of the running around, partying and hanging with OM, not to mention the drama, it is unlikely her grades have stayed where they were.

You be that light house. You be the place where it is calm and the kids like to be. You be resolute and relentless and you will be surprised where your life goes. It may not even be with her, but if it is not, it will be with someone who knows how to handle a relationship. Do you know why? Because you are learning about what a relationship is. It is not "keep them happy at all costs", it is not "give me, give me, give me", it is a balance and you are seeing that.

I doubt that there is any way you could go back to the way your marriage was even if somehow all of this mess would be made to vanish or never have existed. You have grown and you will continue to grow.

So do the heavy lifting, be the beacon, and also don't be surprised to find out she does have an attorney. Right now if she can blindside you she will. She is afterall a lawyer in training. And there motto is "if you cannot win fair...win."

God Bless,

JL

Hi all...

Just got back from the lawyer, have a timeline set up to complete the paperwork, etc., plan on serving papers to her sometime around Feb 14. She's not going to be home that weekend anyway - is housesitting for a 'friend'. Might as well send the papers there. Happy V-Day dear. I love you, divorce me please.

I guess the meeting went well, but all I feel is filthy and polluted. I know she has betrayed our marriage, but just talking about ending this marriage has got me so down right now that I'm right back to where I was a while ago. Crying, terrified, hurt, angry.

JL - you are right - I could never go back to that marriage. It's over. I couldn't stand it for a week. But I still love my wife so much.

I found a note she had written to herself this morning desribing how much she likes the OM, how he makes her feel like she was in high school again, how well he understands her, how much she loved the sound of his voice. I know she left it out by accident, so I didn't move it, just left it laying there. There wasn't much I could do. The wife I love is no longer around. It's a total stranger.

I know she might have an lawyer - I know she's looking for places - has a list of house rentals in her car that she's looking at. I expect a blindside everytime she walks into the room. I don't trust her at all, and I don't beleive a ting she says. This is all so strange - she was a monument to stability and truth for so any years - the change that's come over her has been so complete that I'm stunned.

I realize that I could easily have a great relationship with someone else - I know I've grown. I just don't want to let go of that friend I had for so long.

Yet this feels so final. It really feels like its over, like we are doing our goodbyes a sentence at a time, over a long period of time. I don't see her changing into someone that I could respect or love, and that may hurt worse than anything I've run into yet.

Plan A works, but it sure doesn't mean you will grow toward your WS. You could end up finding out that this isn't what you want.

It's up to God what happens as the result. I just hope I'm a better person than I was...

Then I wish she could see that....

David

David,

Hang in there and proceed. If nothing changes you won't lose a thing if you divorce, she is not the woman you loved or the woman that you married. Now that woman is still in there, but she may not come out. If not, you lost little. If she does, then you have a chance to gain her back.

This stuff is classic FOG. You cannot fight it, but do move the note around so she knows you read it. Make a copy of it so that you have more ammunition. One of the two will tire of one another when school is out because real life is not school, and infinite time to play and study. In realy life she is going to have to work her fanny off to make a living as a lawyer. He will meet more young women and he will dump her.

Will you be in the picture??? Maybe, maybe not, it will depend on how long it takes and how your feelings go.

You can do this, and you NEED to protect your family and hopefully your marriage. Stay the course she knows she is hurting you, but she doesn't believe it. I think the papers will be a very cold dose of water. However, be prepared because you will be divorced if she does not change. It is the risk you MUST take it seems. It is the same with Plan B. It works but that does not mean the marriage survives.

Must go. Hang in there and enjoy the kids.

God Bless,

JL

Ibid. on what JL said.

Nothing is over. I went thru many of the things you did. Most actually. Had to learn what you have learned, but it took me a little longer (guess that makes you smarter than me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

She is foggy...very foggy. Do not take much credence on what she says. She is right...she is trying to figure things out. Reality is not connecting with "her reality." She cant seem to make the puzzle fit together.

Just keep moving. The chance yo uare taking is a risk. But the odds are in your favor. So, the odds say your wife, not your WW, will come out in the end.

But as JL said, if she doesnt...you havent lost anything over what you have right now. But you have gained a whole lot of experience on how to do it right the next time!

In His arms.

Just got into a very upsetting conversation with her. She cut it off. She was trying to be so sweet and wanted to talk things over. She had a greeat idea - the kids will live with her, and she will drop them off at school, I can pick them up, and then she will come over and get them. That way I could see them almost everyday! I asked her why I'd do that, and she asked "Are you trying to take my kids away from me?" I asked her the same question right back. Then I asked her if she had given any thought to the type of life she was planning on taking them into - did she really want to teach them that adultery was acceptable, and marriage was something you could get rid of whenever you wished? She said "Bye" and that was it.

I don't think I LBd at all there, but it did bring up a very distressing point. I can't afford the lawyers retainer. I can afford to get the papers served, but he wants money ahead of time to prepare for a custody hearing - makes perfect sense, but since my savings account has been drained, I don't have the reserve, and dear WW has managed to ruin our credit with all her shopping sprees. I'm starting to worry here a bit about this...


david

Hi David-

I know that as BS's we tend to take everything that our WS's say to us to heart, I know we are supposed to *know* that it's fog talk, but you take the hit anyway, you may not react to it, but you 'take one for the team'.

The reason I am bringing this up is, when your WW thought up her brilliant idea for you to see the kids daily, she had, in her foggy brain thought of what seemed like the perfect solution, she was bouncing it off of you in hopes that you'd be thrilled with the idea, and then her world might make sense....but since you derailed the fogland express with reality, she got upset and left....It depresses you I can tell by your posts, and understandably so. I know that the 'veterans' can spot this stuff a mile away, and they reassure you that you're doing good, and you are, but I'm in the trenches with ya right now, and I understand how bleak it looks......the plans help, they make you feel less out of control, but they don't make you feel whole....you don't feel whole, do ya David? I know I don't....part of me has been ripped away and there's nothing I can do about it.

Weak and powerless, that's how it makes you feel.

Sorry I'm such a downer, I really was just trying to say that I think your wife is gonna come around, she way too conflicted to be happy with her decision, my WH doesn't appear nearly as conflicted.

I think you're gonna be okay David.

-Caren

David, chin up... I cannot offer alot here except support, my WH is still thick in the fog, too.

Plus, you are a fellow Capricorn (my b-day is 12/24) so you can't be all that bad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just know that everday is going to bring it's own emotions and it's gonna be one he** of a ride for awhile... you have to ride it out, one way or another. That is the only way to the other side of this madness.

I can see you are in so much pain, and that is what sucks...as BSs even when we are not at fault, we have to carry the majority of the load.

Folks, I thnk she's about to blindside me right now. She just contacted me again trying to get me to start listing all the furniture, etc that I wanted, and letting me know she is taking the kids and then started listing off the stuff she wants me to do - what furniture she is taking, etc.

I fear that she has had this planned all along and that the 'break' in the fog the other night was an attempt to disarm me for a while. I just contacted my lawyer, offered him the cost of the d papers emergency custody + filing fees - left it on his VM. I hope he will take that for a start and get the stuff started. It turns out that in all custody cases, the state requires a mediator, so that will slow down the process enough for me to stay in plan - either A or B, depending on what happens over the next day or two.

In any event - any kind of comforting talk would be appreciated. Her, I can live without. The kids, I have to protect.

She's pretty much just emptied my Love Bank so far that I could care less what happens now. But I am very frightened about the kids....

If she asks you to do something that you do not want to do (like dividing up the furniture) ... don't do it!

Say: That is not something I am willing to do at this time. I plan on honoring my marriage vows.

Do not say it with tears or with sarcasm, but with upmost sincerity.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> If she asks you to do something that you do not want to do (like dividing up the furniture) ... don't do it!

Say: That is not something I am willing to do at this time. I plan on honoring my marriage vows.

Do not say it with tears or with sarcasm, but with upmost sincerity.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I stay calm when she's around, but I am falling apart right now. I told her I'm trying to honor my vow to her.

The conversation we just had really hurt her, I could tell. She kept saying I've never kept my vows to her throughout our marriage, and I asked her what she meant, because I'm still here, loving her and willing to work hard to make myself a better man. She said she couldn't live without the children, I pretty much just repeated it back to her. I told her that I would not allow any other man to take my place, she said, "Oh, I'm not going to have any men in their lives" - I just read the G**D***** note she wrote herself last night about how wonderful OM is. I told her I didn't believe that at all. And then I think I messed up. I told her that our daughter had gathered together all her money so that we could go to Walmart to buy Mom some flowers so that she would start loving her family again.

We were over IM, but I could tell that made WW (or was it Wife?) cry, because it took her a while to reply and all she said was that she had to go - couldn't talk any more.

I;m not sure if that was a good ploy - that was a direct use of guilt to get at her - I knew it would, but I don't know if that's proper or not...

In any event, I told her that I didn't think she even knows me anymore, she's been so busy. She said, 'Well, maybe some time apart would help me see that"

I'm going to try to get her to delay any Divorce proceeding - I may be able to do a plan B if she starts thinking that way.

In any event, this ain't easy. I feel like I've been beaten up...

David