Had a relatively decent conversation with my wife this morning. She has just left to pick up the keys for her new house.

In the conversation, we both brought up things that have bothered or hurt us thru the past, and have lead up to where we are now. I know that is a good sign, because at least she is talking to me - has come out of her w/d somewhat. Could be because she's revv'd up on getting a new place - I'm not putting much stock into a continued conversation.

Some things did come up that I need help with. Fisrt, she says that she has stopped her affair completely, that the reason she is moving is because she needs time to think things over. SHe says that the OM has no place in her life, she just needs to be alone. Thing is, I believe her. The reason is that she has never lied to me, as far as I know, ever except about the affair. I don't know if I'm being a fool here or not, but I do trust her.

I know that things I've done in the past have hurt her, and that she needs to see that I'm no longer doing those things in order for her to maybe change her mind about me.

Second thing: she said she does not want a divorce, just wants to be separated (although a one year lease is a huge separation). She said, well, if things work out, it'll just be an expensive mistake.

Third: I left my journal home one night when I went to work, she told me she had read some of it and was really upset that I could be so angry at her - some of the things I wrote in it were truly expressing anger - I was using it to get it out. But what she didn't tell me till this morning is that she let one of her friends read the journal. She then photocopied the entire thing and is keeping it in a safe place. Makes no sense, most of the journal is about how much I love her, can't understand the situation, prayers I've written, etc. While I could seeher being upset about me spying on her email and finding out about her affair, I am very bothered by her reading my journal, letting another friend read it, and photocopying it. That feels very wrong.

The irony of the situation is that the friend who read the journal is someone I really don't think much of, and I had written a lot of that in the journal...ad apparently now that friend won't speak to Cheryl, because of my views of her. Not that I care all that much, but I really didn't intend to hurt my wife by driving away one of her friends.

Another thing that came up is that both that friend and another one of hers (one that has been helping her with the A the entire time) told my wife that I have tried to pick them up at various times. That is utter nonesense, and very unfair, but my wife says that since ahe can't trust me, she has to believe them. The first one (the friend she just lost) is about as appealing to me as chewing on tin foil. The second one, I did tell my wife once that she was cute and it was odd that she had no boyfriend - but after getting to know her, there's a reason why - she is one messed up woman. I never tried to pick up on either of them. I guess I either have to attribute this to the FOG, which means that the OM is still in the wings - contradicting what W has been saying, or else I somehow have sent out some really messed up signals to these women. I've never actually chased a woman ever - I asked a girl out in high school once, got turned down, and ever after, I've more or less just let friendships develop into marriages. There was a woman many years ago who made the same charge about me - and she was repulsive and desparate, and I thought we had worked that out - that 'woman' made the same claims about everyone. However, my W now has changed her mind about that troll as well...I don't really understand this - I did have an affair once, it took several months to develop, it ended, my wife knows about it, and that is the only time I have ever been unfaithful to her.

If she leaves home thinking those things, I don't see how we can possibly make anything work out. But she says she wants the time to think things over, and that she thinks we may get back together.

In the meantime, she does not want a divorce, but wants to take the two youngest kids with her - says she can't live without them. I know the feeling. I am of half a mind to let them go with her, since I'll still see them just about every day, but on the other hand I do not want to put my family in jeopardy - moving out makes it very hard to fill her love bank, and mine is virtually empty as well. I don't know what to do. My atty is ready with the D papers - but I love my wife and I don't want a divorce - and the enormous hurt and fight that will come because I am filing for custody. My W told me she is terrified because she cannot afford a lawyer and was writing the D papers herself, and is afraid that I will hurt her as much as I can by going for custody. My aim is not to hurt her at all, but to restore my family and M. I know that her reading all the anger I wrote out in my journal has not helped....

Why would she do that? I never touched her journal, even when I knew she was writing about her love for the OM in it. She claims that even when she wrote about me in her journal, she never wrote anything as angry as what I did.....of course, I was not being unfaithful to her at the time, and was working on her ENs, so I don't imagine she would have. I just wonder what possible use she could have for holding onto a copy of my personal journal...

David, confused...

How many times have you been married?

Pep

David,

Your wife is not only lying to you but setting you up for a fall.

Nota in the journal of when she read it, what she did and that this journal is no longer safe.
Put a data and time on it as well.

Your WS may keep contact with the OM. Protect your children. She is putting her guilt on you about her not being safe. Bullhockey. She is the one that is not making the family feel safe.

Let her take care of all her expenses. Adrenaline will help her survive for a while. 1 year lease is a long time. Expensive mistakes s/b her paying for them not the family.

You need to take the safe route and be very cautious. She wants you to believe her so she can continue to manipulate you and the family. Her friend(s) who read your journal will exploit it to her benefit so be careful. Some may help you but don't expect it. The journal is not in a safe place. Ask for those copies. Let her sign an agreement that if she ever uses info from your journal it w/b constituted an invasion of privacy. Maybe let a lawyer draw up that agreement. BAsically you want to end her using that journal as a tool against you.

Right now, don't show her anymore of your journal or findings.

L.

Hi all -

I truly don't know what to do - O, I will ask for the journal back, but she won't do it. I'll date mine tonight and note in it that it is no longer safe - it feels very invasive - there was stuff I wrote in there that were my thoughts at the time, and not reflective of my feelings for her at all. I am very angry that she has given it to her friends. Another thing she is doing that I forgot to mention, is giving a copy of all my emails that I send her to her friends. These are for the most part love letters, I don't see why this is going on.

I don't feel safe right now! The more I think about this, the worse I feel - not as in sad or mad, but as in betrayed, invaded, and exploited. I now know I can't communicate with her safely in writing or text messages, or IM. I'm even worried about phone calls. I never make threats, or am abusive, or mean, but I have been upset and told her my feelings - I'm wondering if this isn't a time to start considering Plan B....

Pep - this is marriage number two. First one ended with an affair - she left with one of the kids and my 'best friend'.

I can sure pick 'em.

Davidiot

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

I also found out the for sonme reason she went thru my wallet today and took my atty's card. I would think that any conversations I have with him are confidential, but Cheryl has some really powerful connections, and I'm not sure what she's up to - should this also be something to be concerned about?

The more I think this over, the odder I'm starting to feel about the situation - something is going on that I do not understand. If anyone has had a similar experience, what happened and how did you resolve it?

This is the wierdest broadside yet.....

I agree with Orchid.

1) Your wife is lying to you. This board is filled with examples of WS who move out claiming they just want their space and just want to be alone. That really means, "I want my space to carry on my affair without you interfering." If she's moving into her own apartment, you can bet OM will be there, too.

2) Your wife is setting you up. I'd bet the farm that she photocopied your journal and e-mails in order to make you look like a nutball in court and keep you from getting the kids.

I could be wrong about all of this. I hope I am. But there is too much at stake here, as in your children.

I think you need Mortarman for this one. But whatver you do, move quickly. She has declared war and you've got to be ready. Don't put ANYTHING past her. She's counting on the fact that you trust her, but you cannot trust any WS.
Protect yourself and protect your kids. She's on her own.
Mulan

I'm playing phone tag with my lawyer right now. As far a I know he already has the papers written up, I just need to sign them and he will take care of the rest.....

God, I don't want this! Of COURSE the journal makes me look like a nutjob - journals do that! I write down every single thought that comes thru my tiny little mind, and there are PAGES of stuff in there.

This is so far beyond what I had expected her to do - everything is so out of character - except the fact that she is obviously documenting things - she's won lawsuits that way before....

Oh lord....

David-

Yeah, the alarms should be going off MAJOR...didn't you say she's a law student? I'd be REAL worried. I would contact my lawyer ASAP and tell him EVERYTHING that's been going on. Give HIM copies of everything that she has copies of and ask what on earth she could be using them for.

I think she's using the 'nice act' to lull you into a false sense of security, get you to "not act" so she can have the jump on you....FILE FOR THE DIVORCE, beat her to the punch.....all while lulling her into a false sense of security too...don't comment about what she's been doing, or the invasion of your privacy, act normal...act like everything is hunky dory and you trust her implicitly, I might even go so far as to tell her how proud of her you are for ending the A..........then drag out the big guns when she's not looking. That'll throw her for a loop. (Cuz pssssst, she trusts you too, she doesn't think you're smart enough to see through it).

-Caren

Ok David,

People are allowed to make mistakes. BS' are no exception. So you were a bit too trusting but now you know. WS' is out for her interests. All your stuff s/b off limits. Let your lawyer know what happened. If he wants a copy of your journal, give it to him. Let him know these are your private thoughts and are very hurt by her actions. Let him know she went through your wallet. How can you prove this?

Just give him info as facts not emotional. This way, if her lawyer or whoever tries to make you look bad brings up the journal, your lawyer will already know where they are getting the info and if he is smart make them look bad for invading your privacy.

This does show that the WS is getting desparate. All the more reason to be on your guard. Change the locks in your home and make sure she is never alone in your home without your presence and even then don't let her around your things.

She went from being your W to now a perpertrador (sp????). Be careful.

Now you know why we describe the WS as alienlike. Their actions are not humane at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Strengthen the bond with your children. Reassure your children of your love. Let your supporters know she took copies of your journal (even your children if they are old enough). No secrets. It w/b harder for her to use it against you if others know what she did. Her credibility will such and so will her supposed accusations.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I know I'm going to take a lot of flack for this, 2x4s, A-bombs, you name it. I love everyone here and respect your opinions and input and I take it to heart seriously.

My wife got back home with the key to her new house. We had an even more in-depth talk. Yes, she could be trying to keep me off balance. But I don't think she is. She called our pastor and talked to him, admitted her affair, told him everything.

And then we talked - back over our history - all the hurts, the loss of trust - basically talked about each other's LBs. Well, mostly about mine. I know what I've been guilty of, and as I listened to her, I realized the damage I've done to her. My cheif one's have been Dishonesty (actually not letting her in) and DJs. And they have hurt her beyond the imagination.

What broke the straw was the way I confronted her about the affair. I didn't go to her when I found out, I went to our pastor first. That was one of the worst DJs I've ever done. She said all of the lies she had told me had been prepared ahead of time - if I had confronted her immediately, she would have tried to lie, but would not have been able to keep it up. I know that to be true. She is the worst liar I've ever known - it's almost outside of her personality to lie. That's what had me so confused and hurt - her lies were so good - I know my wife. She woulod have broken down and confessed the affair.

But I didn't respect her enough to face her, I went to someone else first. Now I can hear everyone gritting their teeth at me for this - but that's always been my patttern - I never respected her judgements - well, put it this way - I never respected them so that she knew it. I have always looked up to her and valued her every opinion. But something inside me always wanted to come up with a counter-argument, and excuse.

And she couldn't take it anymore. She says the affair is over, but the OM is still around. So I don't trust it to remain over. But my W (NOT WS) knows that she is in a bad place and the OM is in rebound, and even with the fog there, W knows that it can only end in disaster. SHe doesn't want that. She wants us to start over, dating, getting to know one another, and she wants to see me change.

That I understand. I know the changes I've made and the changes I still have to make. I'm going to continue my Plan A until June 16, the day I originally planned when I started. I give myself that long to learn how to stop the LBs, and to give the ENs she needs.

And she's moving to her house. With two of our kids. I have the D papers ready, but I will not file as long as I know there's a chance that we can repair our M. And when we told the kids our plans, she broke down and cried like I've never seen her cry. She told the kids we need to do tis to fix what is broken.

She also told me that she can't guarantee that things will work out, or that she will stay away from the OM. I know that, and I am sticking to my plan. I need to show her what her H can be - what she married in the first place.

I know that I can't take responsibility for her A - but I can take responsoibity for creating the void that she tried to fill with it.

I will have the kids every afternoon till she's done study, and then she will pick them up. On weekends we will let the kids pick where they want to stay. I'm going to get rid of our debts over the next few months.

She is trying to get my journal back - I asked for it and told her that if I didn't get it back I'd she'd hear from my lawyer. She appologized for taking it, but she was afraid that I was preparing to file for custody and wanted some sort of weapon - she's going to be a brilliant lawyer, and I want to be in hre future. That's in God's hands.

Kick me if you like, if I need to have my miond changed, please help me. I think this is the right thing to do.

David

If you allow her to set the precedent for full custody by having the children come live with her..you will have no one to blame but yourself if you are wrong.

Why not protect yourself and your children UNTIL you are able to verify her claims?

T..I read your previous threads. You were VERY intimidated by her. She was very much the commanding presence. How is this not the same?

I smell a rat. I think you are being played like a fiddle. Remember, you asked.

Noodle

Hi Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> If you allow her to set the precedent for full custody by having the children come live with her..you will have no one to blame but yourself if you are wrong.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that - and I am still thinking it over - this is a very difficult situation.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not protect yourself and your children UNTIL you are able to verify her claims?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because I know that I have been the major source of her unhappiness for years. My LBs have caused the problems in the marriage. That's why I came to MB in the first place - to learn change myself. The fact that I had done so much damage that I may have ruined my marriage is always formost in my mind. She deserves to be treated better than I did. She was still wrong about the affair, and she may still be in it - I don't know. But I do know that if I file D, I will lose her, permanently. There would be no going back for her. By giving her the chance to see me grow from a distance is the only chance I see for this marriage. If it doesn't work, yes, that will be my fault. But I also put myself here in the first place.

Also, I think I need the space for a while - just to reassess the situation.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">T..I read your previous threads. You were VERY intimidated by her. She was very much the commanding presence. How is this not the same?

I smell a rat. I think you are being played like a fiddle. Remember, you asked.

Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She does intimidate me I need to grow past that. I know that. But I also know the W I love. And yes, I asked. Keep it up. I'm trying to do the right thing. What if I'm not the best parent for my kids? What happens to them then? Maybe she is better than I am. We both had affairs, neither is innocent there. Mine is over, I pray hers is.

I am playing this by ear right now - I'm not sure what's right or wrong....I trust her with the kids. I trust her abilities, and I trust that she will keep her end of this bargain unless I screw it up. Or she decides OM is the right guy, and that I am terribly afraid of.

David

David,

Things change fast don't they? Sounds a lot like my WS acted. I can't give you much advice but be careful, be sincere with her and think everything through. Don't act on emotions.

If she did talk to the pastor, then it is a good sign (I think). Call your pastor and find out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BHINWI:
<strong> David,

Things change fast don't they? Sounds a lot like my WS acted. I can't give you much advice but be careful, be sincere with her and think everything through. Don't act on emotions.

If she did talk to the pastor, then it is a good sign (I think). Call your pastor and find out. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm trying to work this very carefully...it is an extremely difficult and delicate situation. It's a risk I feel I need to take, because I either lose my marriage or it is saved by God, and I have to do the right thing. I hope I am...

I will pray for you tonight. Will keep in touch and remember, we are ALL pulling for you.

Thanks I need it more than I can even imagine. I have to go to work,and I know she's going to be moving out....this really hurts....

David-

Please listen to these people on here, I know you want to trust her, but what has she done to earn it? She has been lying and disrespectful and she's really not giving you anything, she's even said "No guarantees"...David, that's not good enough.

If she must move out...fine, she can do it without the household possessions, without the children.....she says she doesn't think she can live without them, too bad, the family is a package deal.

You are making this WAY too easy, why should she pick you? You're letting her have everything she wants. Why, exactly, is it acceptable for her to take 2 of the kids, there are 3 right?

Is it really okay for your kids to be around the OM? Is that what you want? That's what's going to happen, he's gonna be over at her new place playing house with YOUR WIFE........YOUR KIDS.

This isn't acceptable........you're being foggy, David, do not do this, you will regret it.

By letting her move out without the kids, she will be uncomfortable, she will miss her FAMILY, David, YOU and the kids are her family....she shouldn't have the benefit of all the perks, with none of the *hassle* of having to explain her A to her husband.

Please reconsider this.....you're not helping her....you're harming the chances of reconciling.

-Caren

Gosh I know how you feel. Work is awful, all of this is awful. Do you best.

Hang tough! You WILL get through it. That much I can promise.

David,

Still be on your guard. She knows she has t/b nice to you. She has taken your journal and put it in an unsafe place. You have the right to know where.

She showed she was planning to use this information against you. Make sure you get it back with a written warning that if she uses it against you and the family there w/b consquences. I would still have your lawyer draft a paper for her to sign that she is aware that any use of that journal is a violation of your privacy. Of course you have to respect her journaling as well even though she is the WS. Alien or not, there are rules here to be aheard to.

No 2x4, just want you and the chlidren t/b safe. She may have been a bad liar but that is one thing the WS learn quickly. Mine was an awful liar yet, he learned to cuss like a drunken sailor and liar like the dickens. Such good things came from this 'upright OW/friend'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Better t/b safe than sorry. Right now hear her out but don't give any benefit of the doubt to her ..... she has to earn it. ok?

take care,
L.