Talked with MIL last night, she said that WW told her this past weekend that she intends to file for D. Next shocker, I snoop for evidence of her plannings and find a drawn up settlement agreement. According to MIL, WW's work has an employee service that helps with these legal matters, they then refer you to a "real" lawyer. MIL said that WW has not got a lawyer yet.

Her settlement agreement is priceless. i should call it a wishlist. She gets...EVERYTHING...except this computer, some beat up furniture in the basement, and one of our TV's. She keeps ALL of her retirement (significantly larger than mine which is near nothing), half the equity in the house (which I have paid every penny of, every penny of every remodel, and all the work and upkeep). So basically, she wants to take me to the cleaners.

THe worst part, Custody of DS. I would get visitation 1 day a week and EO weekend. Plus, she wants a built in babysitting service. If one of us needs a sitter for the day we have him, the other agrees to sit rather than hire a babysitter, for the good of the child. Well, since I would practically never have him, for whom is that little arrangement? She wants to continue eating the cake, me supporting her, even after a D. There is other crap in there like that as well. (BTW DS daycare shut down past two days, guess who made arrangements for him yesterday and is now taking a day off work to stay home today? You guessed it, he's typing this post.)

Not much I can do if she is he!! bent on a D. Plan B seems futile, guess I'll do what I can, no LB's, continue working on myself, and release it into the Lord's hands for him to decide.

I wonder what that MC session Tuesday will be like? Or what it's for...

<small>[ February 13, 2005, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Bear04. ]</small>

Bear, sorry to hear that this possibility has you so down.

You seem resigned to it.

I would only advise that many folks on here have been served with papers only to recover in fact the serving has acted like a "boil lancing" , catalysing better recovery.

All blessings in any case bear.

Bob,

Do you fish? I fish. Right now I feel like a fish that has been caught, is hanging there in the net, struggled and flopped and fought to get out. But no getting out, so I am just going to stop flopping about. Maybe the kind fisherman will release me back to the river (my M) and I can on my merry way with my mate.

The only thing I take comfort in is the terms of her settlement. I mean, the total lunacy of them. Clearly WW is still deep in fog.

Sorry to hear this. Also take comfort in the fact that she has not yet retained her own lawyer. Hopefully at some point she will see how destructive such a decision would be to your son and everything the two of you have built together. Keep being a good father and she might see her lunacy in clearer moments.

Hi Bear,

I fish too. Maybe it is time to practice a little catch and release?

Your wife pisses me off. Sorry.

Thanks for the support.

Catch and release. Yeah. It's just WW is acting like WW and not the W I used to know. I don't know what happenened to that person. This is just crazy. Is that a DJ? Am I supposed to respect her decision when I see it as being detrimental to our DS's well being? When I see her not honoring her vows, her commitment to our union, even when faced with the dirtiness of her A I am willing to forgive and rebuild?

I just can't even type right now, my thoughts are like mud. I hope, some day, I can be happy again.

Bear,

This sucks. but maybe it's approaching critical mass and will resolve in a good way. I hope so.

Just keep in mind that as far as you know she has not done anything of substance other than write up some unrealisitic terms. And in fact her terms are so unrealistic that she is very far indeed from doing anything in the real world. The fact that you are getting this second hand - that she "plans" on filing is still just a lot of talk. If this is what she has decided why is she not telling you about it? I don't believe she has made a firm decision yet or she would tell you.

Continue to treat her respectfully in spite of her disrespectful treatment of you. Revive your Plan A. Do all that you can to put your best foot forward with her (no, not up her a** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) so that if she does proceed on her current course that she remembers you as treating her with love.

This is definitely not over. Do everything that you can to try and keep your family together. No, you don't respect her decision, if you can really call it a decision, but you will accept that it is what she has decided, if it does comes to that. Until she tells you she has not decided anything, in my opinion.

Spent the day finishing of the new toy room with my 2yr old DS help (such a trooper, he tuckered out at the end). I am resolved that if this does end in a D, I am not going to look back with regret about what I didn't do.

I have repeatedly had arguements with WW about her not giving us a chance to recover. She says "How long, it will never be enough for you." Well, I have her answer.

On Tuesday at MC I am going to propose, along with weekly joint sessions, a twelve weeek plan. This plan ends on our 5th Anniversary. April 29th. I have two books picked out, After the Affair, and the Five Love Languages.

We start with A the A, read two chapters/week and discuss that chapter after we read it. I propose we set aside Sun night and Thur night, along with Tue being our regular MC night. There are 23 total chapters in these books.

If after we do these things, if WW still feels that D is her best option, then I can honestly tell her we tried. That without doing these things, we won't be doing what is best for our DS because if I was served today, i am sorry, I would be bitter to the core. The cooperation she thinks she is going to get from me wil not be there. That will not be a good environment for our DS. I guess we could call it an "amicable" divorce.

What do my MB friends think?

(Except for the regular SAA, HNHN suggestions. A the A feels like it was written about us. It is so on the point. And reading 5 Lanuages these past 3 days has really affected me and changed the way I think and my outlook. If at the end of 12 weeks WW is still undecided, we couild continue with the Harley series.)

Two things...

My state is a no fault divorce state. Everything is given a value, and equitibly split right down the middle, 50-50, overseen by the courts. If that's the case where you live, her list is nothing more than a "wish" list.

Secondly, your plan sounds reasonable to reasonable people. It may not sound so reasonable to one living in the fog. NC would have to be fully committed to by the WS, or your efforts will probably be in vain.

JMHO
SD

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

SD- My state is an at-fault divorce state. There is one ground that can be used for no-fault and that is irreconcilable differences. The parties would negotiate a settlement, use a mediator and if they still can't agree a jusdge would decide. BOTH parties have to agree to these grounds. I will not, at this time. I reserve the right to change my mind. If it really gets bad around hee, I may just want out.

The fog my WW is in is the fog of D. Her mind is like a train going down the track and won't alter course. I am sinceely hoping our MC will back this plan. I realize that coming from me, it will be seen as some desperate attempt. Well, I guess it is, but it is reasonable, for reasonable people. I hope our MC doesn't have her head up her a**. I sometimes wonder, but WW is comfortable with her and convincing her to change would be monumental.

Our MC did make me a promise, she would not give up until we gave up. I have not. I hope she keeps her word.

One of my biggest problems here is that WW has not even looked into what I have (this site and books etc.) and learned that M can be saved and can be made better than before. I guess that is because it seems to me I want it more than she does. Hence, the road we are on.

Little update-An uneventful weekend at Bear's home. There is little interaction between myself and WW. WHen there is, it is usually me prompting the conversation, WW doesn't seem to be interested in talking. She is now keeping a clean house, something she never did before.

I also found a notepad where WW is keeping notes. Seems she read through a notebook journal I have been keeping. SHe wrote down what I had written, exactly. Nothing in this notebook I am ashamed of. In fact, it doesn't bother me she read it, I'm glad she did. Hope she reads it again, maybe I'll use this to communicate with her since she won't talk to me.

I find it interesting that she is "spying" on me. What does that mean? I know one of her 'friends' advised her to keep any communication from me where I take any fault in the state of the M, or admit any wrongdoing and for her not to talk to me about our R, except in C, and for WW not to admit to anything. Friend said WW could give me my answers after D was final, if she wanted to. Some friend, huh. So maybe this is what she is doing. I am sure a judge is going to throw the book at me for asking the question of WW, What can each of us do to help make this M better? and for reading 5 Love Languages. Good Luck with that WW.

Either way, I find it interesting that she is spying on me now. She probably is lurking on the boards, reading what I post. If you are WW, here is a message. TALK TO ME. IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS. WE CAN BE HAPPY.

Last night was uneventful, no good things, no bad things. I'll take that, for right now. Tonight we go to our first MC session in a few months. Wonder how that is going to turn out. My goal for this session is to lay the groundwork for a possible recovery and to discuss the future rather than dwelling on the past. Although I know we will need to address the past. Hopefully we can agree on the book discussions I mentioned earlier and to continue MC. Most of me feels that this is not going to be a MC session rather a divorce counseling session.

I was thinking last night that I should get plans in place in case I am served. WW wishes to remove me from the house, I think, anyways she intends to stay there. I can't live with her if she wants to D me. I am thinking I better make arrangements for a place to live, at least start looking at it. I also should start developing a PBL. If I am served, I want NC with her and plan B seems like a logical step. Any thoughts?

Bear, I have a thought (hooray!).

Since it is your W who, you feel, wants a D, then it should be up to her to make arrangements to live elsewhere, not you. As Mortarman said, it is better if you stand for marriage, not divorce. Again, you arranging to live elsewhere is enabling her to further proceed down a path that sabotages any hope of recovery. What you are going through right now, what both of you are going through, is about the worst thing that can happen to two people short of death (and it feels like it). As you know, my H is a stubborn person. He has refused to move out. I am too. When we get to point of saying, "that's it, it's over" we look at each and say, "so where are you going to go?" and the answer is always, "so where are you going to go?". It's idiotic but that sheer stubborness has kept us together.

It takes a lot of effort to find and furnish a new seperate home. If she wants it so badly, let her do the work.

Furthermore, your lawyer has told you not to move out since that could be seen as abandonment. You paid for that advice, take it.

I hope all goes well as it can this afternoon at your session.

Thanks for the input. With regards to moving out, I may not have a choice. In WW's settlement, she specifiaclly states tht she wants to stay in house through the D. I know this is crazy, just like all the other cake eating demands. But, she could file a RO along with the D papers. I discussed this with attorney. He said she could do this and it would be granted. All she has to say is she feels unsafe, regardless of any past, she doesn't have to prove anything. A judge would grant this and I could ask for a hearing. Either way I am out for a little while.

Her fogese tells her that we could both stay there. One of her recently D friends stayed in the house with her exH until it was finalized. (Are women always unhappy in groups? They seem to catch it like the flubug).

Anyways, I am just considering all angles. You are exactly right, she should leave. I hope it never comes to that.

I restrained from saying anything about this earlier, but feel this is relevant. On Sunday as I was out with friends Super Bowling it, WW went out to her P's house. Of course she asked FIL for couple thousand to file for D. He was rather upset. Told her, no. If she was doing this it was on her own. And she was being selfish and making a mistake, only thinking of self, ruining DS's life, etc. ALso told WW that they always had close R (WW and her P's) but if she went through with this that would all change. They are not going to sit around and see their grandchild's life turned upside down. There would be severe consequences.

First, i had nothing to do with this. I heard this secondhand as well, but believe it is true. Second, it is nice to hear that in laws are proM, but I don't know if this is all good. WW will see this as pressure, etc. Hopefully it gets her to take a look at our M and see if it can work, just a crack of daylight, I really don't know.

Trying to look at the positive for you. A seperation period within the same household might work for some people but probably works for less. Anyhow, her waffle about leaving might indicate that part of her wants to stay. Same with the two of you going to counselling together. Also her asking her father for money to file - it shows she has not yet put in the serious effort it takes to unravel a life together.

BTW, I read "After the Affair" within a month of returning home. Two things struck me as a FWW in that book: one, give the BS a chance, two, do the actions and the feelings will follow. A lot of it made me angry (at the time) as I thought it was very self-pitying for the BS, but some things got through.

Also, months after I returned home, I was still waffling about my commitment to my M. It will take patience. You told me that the further a person gets away from normal the longer it takes to get back. That hit me. Bear that in mind for your own situation, okay?

Really? I had an insightful thought over the past couple months? Didn't know I was capable.

I HAD told WW that if she wanted D, she would have to earn her way out. She would have to work for it.

Her wanting to stay in the house, have $$ given to her for D, wanting, basically, everything we own, is just proof that she is still in the fog. She is not READY for a D, IMO. If it is just GIVEN to her, then, I believe, she will have that day, maybe a year or so later, where all this will hit her and she will regret her decision.

I know you are focusing on the positive. I see her waffling as well. Of course that is spun as me "grasping at straws" or "holding onto something that isn't there". Did I mention that when the subjuect of MC came up, and I asked to go, she told me she wanted me to go a couple of weeks ago.

I BELIEVE WE CAN MAKE IT. It is just gonna be hard, and we both have to put in the effort.

I will post again with thoughts about A the A.

After the Affair.

First, I saw this book as being pretty respectful to the WS. Ch 2 is all about the WS's feelings and it gives the A from both perspectives.

What really hit me was how spot on this book was to how I felt. I had been saying for months before I read that book the parts about acting before feeling. You need actions before feelings. The part about sex, where it says that if you are waiting until the 'feelings' are there to forget it because it isn't gonna happen. I told the same thing to WW 2 months after Dday. I told her we should just start doing it, that our actions need to come and our feelings will catch up.

My jaw dropped when I read that less than a week ago in black and white.

I just liked the book. It expressed what I was feeling, things I never verbalized, and gave me insight into why. I knew why, but just couldn't verbalize or express it so nicely.

Yes, the book does give both perspectives, and perhaps much more fairly than much of what is to be gleaned here. Correct if I am wrong, but I don't remember her describing withdrawal in terms of "fog", "addiction", "fantasy". To a WS coming out after an E/PA, these are very consdescending terms. Plus,she doesn't say the spouses have to stay together or even should.

As to your counselling tonight, I am curious whether your counsellor will try to "reconnect" you two. What I mean is, will she try to draw you two together on an emotional basis? Try to find some common area of agreement? I'm just wondering because our counsellor did that initially and it helped a lot.

Oh yes, one other thing I liked about that book was that she says the BS probably would like the changes in the WS. I guess that goes back to giving the BS a chance to get to know the changed person. It also gives the BS a chance to change, re-evaluate.

I've also come to the conclusion through all this that I do not know my H as well as I thought I did. Further, some of the changes in me have freed him in some respects. It's hard getting through all of this, all the uncertainty, but I am dealing with a different person now and a different dynamic in our M.

Yes, she did use the phrase IF the couple decides to stay together. No, she doesn't use derogatory terms. She does talk about tranfering blame, rewriting history, etc.

Getting to know your spouse. One thing that really irks me is when WW DJ's all over the place and says, You are this, You think that. I know I need to listen to 'her needs' in there. I also know that a lot of it is fog and transference of blame. Deciphering the two is tough. But it really ticks me off that she thinks I am such a 'bad' person.

One thing really scares me. I have heard none of this for a couple weeks. It really scares me. No blame, just silence and D background work.

That is not good.