I just read here a lot anymore....I feel too stupid in my situation to post much anymore.

This is long....proceed with caution, if you are at all interested.

I talked to SH on Tuesday about the ongoing situation here at home.

Last time I posted was about getting the credit card bill of WH's that showed many charges during the last Plan B period (right before Christmas)....he had told me before he moved back home that he had not seen OW, but had only talked to her on the phone. LIES!!!

The credit card bill showed me that I believed his lies AGAIN.

The argument that followed....because WH would NOT have a calm discussion...was predictable.

I didn't care about the charges...they were kind of expected. I cared about the lies........

The 3 days following.....also predictable. WH was very cold towards me (and please look how I'm finally picking up this pattern - at last).

Then, last Friday, we got tickets to go to a club for dinner and concert in the city. We went shopping first. Stopped in a little pub around the corner from the night club to wait for our dinner reservation to open.

Had a few drinks, wonderful conversation. A really good time so far.

Went to the night club....had dinner, more conversation (this is a place WH has taken OW to, but was my first time going there). Needless to say, I was having "triggers", so to speak.

During the period before the concert, WH started asking me "Do you see any WOMEN here you'd like to F***?" Yes, the real F word. YES, WOMEN.

I simply answered.."They all look pretty scary to me". But he kept on asking me this question (and since I'm not "turned" that way, I was not too happy with the question).

I said "I would really love it if you would pay some attention to JUST me". But he kept on with the question.

I finally said "Could I ask you this...did you ask OW the same question when you brought her here?"

He said "No. But she wouldn't care if I did."

We watched the concert, then headed home (a 2 hour trip).

WH said "We just don't have anything to talk about, do we?"

I replied "Yes, we have lots to talk about, but you don't seem to want to talk about those things (he knew I meant our R, the A, and plans for recovery, etc.).

The argument was on....he's leaving, getting a D, and I said "Fine. If that's what you want."

He told me that I repulsed him.

At home, he was getting his things together, and I lost it. I started throwing his clothes onto the couch. WH said "I'm not taking everything now."

Me: "yes you are, because you are not coming back here again."

Very long story short, WH kicked our bedroom door and split a panel in it, told me I was vindictive (which I am NOT). I then broke a bottle of cologne that OW bought him (I took it and hid it) saying "THIS is vindictive". (I have never done ANYTHING like that before - it felt GOOD)

He shoved me a couple of times (very hard - I'm surprised there are no bruises) down onto the bed and yelled "THIS IS MY HOUSE!!!!"

Then, he pulled the "I'm going to kill myself" card again.

I told him I was tired of him trying to manipulate me with that. I told him to give me the gun, I'd shoot him myself.

So, he gave it to me and said, "You'd do that?"

I said "Hell, no!" then hid the gun.

Then, everything was okay. Manipulated again.

Yesterday, I said "Can I ask you a question? Who is ----- and ------ from ------ that's on your cell bill?"

He answered, then slammed out of the house. He says the way I ask, the look on my face, etc. makes him act that way...defensive.

SH says WH is very likely still in contact with OW (I could have told him that - even tho I have no proof). SH says he has probably taken it farther underground, more secretive.

I am to ask WH about a plan for our recovery. Let him know that I appreciate the fact that he is in IC. I'm to ask WH (because we KNOW WH's answer will be "I need to straighten myself out first") how long he thinks it will be before we can sit down and come up with a plan - since our "no plan" plan isn't working.

Then, if he says it will take more that 2 months, SH said he strongly suggests that we separate.

Now, I'm just working up to this whole conversation with WH. It will probably jump right into another argument (irregardless of what I say, or how I say it).

Sorry about the babbling. I feel like a blithering idiot.

Fool me once, shame on you...fool me - how many times? - what the hell is the matter with me?

I guess I'm just venting, or whining, or ? Please forgive me, all. But your input really helps.

K

K,

I am sooo sorry it came to those blows, but you know it was eventually going to happen right? Why? Because the WS is still a WS living in your home where only an H & W s/b allowed.

So Steve is right. Separation is needed. You already know you don't want or need a WS in your home. It creates a hostile and unsafe environment for all who live there (including pets and plants). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The WS can take himself out there to live with himself. See if he likes how he would now have to take his anger out on someone other than his W and family. Yep, he has to release somewhere....c/b with the OW, but then doesn't she deserve it?

See this is where you can get some relief (plan B)/separate and at the same time, give all that stress to the A makers (WS/OW). Remember they want others to believe they are not the cause of the A. But after all this, put them together and they will tear each other to pieces.

Your Ws has already admitted somethings that can't be retracted. He is in IC so it is no longer what K thinks. This WS character is becoming more visible to the world and now you will have greater support.

Hope this helps. Hard t/d but better for you in the long run.

Be safe. Don't let episodes like that happen again. Be glad it wasn't worse.

L.

K:

GO BACK and read those posts where you found your strength and stopped the doormat behavior. You DESERVE more and you need to DEMAND more.....from your self. Your WH can NEVER love you and respect you if you don't feel those things for yourself. You are a strong woman, it is within you to persevere. YOU CAN DO IT. Go back and find that woman who was posting with your strength and resolve.

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Yes, Orchid...

I figured it would come to this some time or another.

WH was "SOOOOOOOOO SORRY" that he physically pushed me (has never done anything like that before).

SH says if we do separate, we should play it by ear.....if I should go to a strict Plan B or not.

Bottom line......I feel really good about myself when WH isn't here, and really bad about myself and the situation when he IS here. I feel "left out" of WH's life.

And his actions have not changed. Everything is GREAT if I never say ANYTHING about the A, or our R.

This tells me a lot....

Thanks, K

Then everything isn't great. That's the point. Listen to LM and don't settle for less than you deserve. Even if he apologizes, those are just words. Words that don't have as much meaning after he has lost your trust. Realize that he has to regain your trust in him. That is his task. You can't do it for him.

You and your family are worth more than settling for a WS in your home. You need your H back. No less.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Lemonman....

I will take your advice.

I think part of my problem now, is that I want to "fix" WH. I know I can't do that. He has to do it for himself.

I like the saying "I'd rather be healthy alone, that sick with someone else".

Goes with what I have always told DD...."There are worse things than being alone".

These are truths that are just that.....true.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> Yes, Orchid...

I figured it would come to this some time or another.

WH was "SOOOOOOOOO SORRY" that he physically pushed me (has never done anything like that before).

Thanks, K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K:

While I freely admit that I have no business giving an educated opinion on "marriage building", I do think I know a lot more about physical and domestic abuse than many on here. I deal with it in my job essenitially daily. If your WH can even push you once (like he did), then there is a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY that he will do it again, and in escalating fashion. TRUST ME ON THIS. I have become an expert in domestic abuse (certainly not by choice).

Call me sexist, or whatever, but I ALWAYS hold men to a higher standard when it comes to physical violence than woman. I don't care if you square punched him in the face....A MAN SHOULD NEVER TOUCH A WOMAN. If he can do it once, he can (and usually will) do it again. While I know you don't want to hear this, I think your recovery efforts have just become that much more difficult now that he has shown that he is capable of physically assaulting you.

What did Harley say to you about the abuse?

LM

Lemonman....

I, too, work in the medical field, and unfortunately what you say is true. I've seen it.

I do not recall that SH said anything about my WH pushing me (twice).

I DO know this, if anything comes close to happening like this again, I will call 911.

WH has always had an anger problem. He has broken many things over the years....doors, windows, furniture, etc. He does need IC for this problem, although he was raised this way (using anger to solve your problems). His whole family is that way.

Thank you. I AM reading my old posts again. I don't feel like I've let down on my strength, just my resolve.

And I totally realize that WH does NOT feel the same way I do about things, and that I cannot fix him, or lead him in the ways I think right.

He needs to find his own way.

Thanks again.

K

Look at this ---> D-Day May 15 2004

What is different about your marriage situation today (Feb. 3 2005) compared to May 2004?

He was violent ONE TIME ... which is enough for me to say this ---> I say to your H: "GO and Don't let the screen door hit you on your [censored] on your way out."

How long is enough?

How many times is enough?

Where is your boundary that demonstrates to your H that you are not going to live this way?

Pep

You are RIGHT, Pep.

Enough is ENOUGH.

I do not deserve any of this. Time is up.

And from past experience, I KNOW that it will come to this (time is up) when I ask WH about our plan for recovery.

He WILL leave.....because this is all just "too hard" for him. He can't see past himself.

I can.

K

Your boundary has been moved ... extended ... changed.... re-worded ... flipped on end .... WHY?

BECAUSE you make your H's reaction to your boundary an issue of where you will put your boundary !!!

If you move your boundary around enough, you are not keeping your promises ... you end up making yourself a liar.

HIS response is not the issue... YOUR flexable boundary is about YOU setting limits ON YOURSELF!!!

What is your boundary that you are setting for yourself?

How long?
How many times?

Think of this boundary issue through the lens of your moral compass and USE your integrity.... AND your common sense.

Pep

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Then, he pulled the "I'm going to kill myself" card again.

I told him I was tired of him trying to manipulate me with that. I told him to give me the gun, I'd shoot him myself.

So, he gave it to me and said, "You'd do that?"

I said "Hell, no!" then hid the gun.

Then, everything was okay. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why?

Why?


Why are you okay with a gun being waved about during an argument with your H??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This has to be one of the most insane things that I have ever read on here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't care how well someone knows how to "handle" it...it should NEVER be used as a prop during an argument!

Gawd...this leaves me appalled.

committed

Pep and committed...

Boundaries are NOT flexible as far as I am concerned. I haven't moved mine, I'm just confused by WH's lack of, how do you say, being willing to do ANYTHING.

I feel like saying to him "throw me a bone, here".

But, still, I get nothing.

And, unfortunately, the gun thing, is unacceptable. The fact is, he is using it to manipulate me. This is obvious.

WH is so bogged down in his own feelings....his "hole" that he's put himself in, and doesn't want to seem to come out of, that he is using any method of manipulation to keep me from saying anything about our situation, or ask questions of him.

And I have a lot of questions.

To sum it up, "I can't get no satisfaction".

I know it's appalling. I just don't know how to end the situation without making it much worse before it does end.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I know it's appalling. I just don't know how to end the situation without making it much worse before it does end.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Explain this if you don't mind. I don't understand.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> ...To sum it up, "I can't get no satisfaction".

I know it's appalling. I just don't know how to end the situation without making it much worse before it does end.

K </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K, I am worried about you but you are not out of options here. However, you may have to take the high road to get yourself to a safe place.

What you can't see is the tranquility that waits for you when your overcome the hurdle blocking you from appreciating yourself. It is a common BS mistake/misconception (that they can't be happy w/o their WS). What it s/b is that they can be happy w/o a WS or Xws. Happiness with our H or W's only come when it is given on both sides. When 1 is doing most of the work and the other is handing out a few crumbs.... you c/b back to square -1 real quick. Is that where you feel you are?

Ok, now let's move your forward. Let's get you to where your boundaries are more important than subjecting yourself and your family to an ungrateful WS or Xws.

Need a plan still or can you formulate one based on the suggestions given thus far?

Let us know.

take care,
L.

K ----------> WHERE IS THIS WOMAN ?

POsted by K72172: Dec 2004

"I DO have plans for myself and my life. They have been in place for some time now.

I have already started working on getting further education to up my degree in nursing. I haven't worked on any of it for a while....too much turmoil to pay attention. But, my New Years' plan is to begin working on that with renewed vigor.

I have many interests that do not include any of this....my art, my quilts, music, working out, yoga, friends, children, grandchild. All things I love to do.

I had taken piano lessons for a couple of years. I am thinking of beginning that again.

I also am thinking of taking my puppy to obedience classes. I may start riding horses again. My life is WIDE open.

I am afraid that I no longer care what WH and OW do. I have gotten to that point.

I'm not dancing his dance. He may try to get me to, but I have opted out.

Lovingb.....yes, options. I have many options.


K"

These are your words...NOT MINE. Have you "opted out"? Have you stopped "dancing his dance" ? Just wondering. From my admittidely limited vantage point, I would not say that is the case....perhaps I am wrong. This isn't to gang up on you, but to try and help you get back to being "true" to yourself. Once again, K....how is your WH ever gonna respect you and honor you if you don't respect and honor your words and boundaries? He is never gonna respect your boundaries if you yourself don't. Do you really blame him. YOu have SHOWN him time and time again, how flexible you really are with things. This time it was an assault and a threat to kill himself....what is next? Feel free to discard my posts, but you need to look into why you let yourself "backslide" into this horrific drama. I feel sorry for you, I really do.

LM

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like saying to him "throw me a bone, here".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to let this one pass... because you're already getting piled on ... but I just think this is too important for you.

He IS throwing you bones .... only bones, no meat.

You are worth an entire filet mignon dinner, not just bones.


Pep

K:

Just reading this thread has me second guessing posting to you so much. Sorry if my posts to you make you feel "piled" on. That is not the intent. I am know that you are looking for some support here. I don't want you to feel "stupid" or a "masochist". We could all tell you 1000x over what you "need to do", but it only works when you find the way yourself. People mean well here (including me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) but in the end, you have to do what feels "right" for you. You may continue to get it wrong and suffer more, but there is no other way to do this. You have lived a life of insanity with your wayward husband (for the record, I do not think there is any question that he is still cheating) --> that is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. If people didn't care they wouldn't post. Chin up, keep fighting FOR YOURSELF HERE.

Best wishes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

Lemonman and Pep.....

Please don't second guess yourselves posting to me.

Sometimes I'm just looking for someone to say "SNAP OUT OF IT"!!!

And sometimes, the situation is so close, you need an outside opinion of what is going on, because you just can't see for yourself (talking about me).

For the record, I'm just pretty sure he is still cheating on me, just being more secretive. I don't care if he is just talking to her on the phone, that's still cheating. He knows that it is one of my boundaries.

I can't tell all of you how much being able to come here and vent, get advice, and the occasional 2x4 has meant to me.

I would have totally lost myself without it.

The only plan I have right now is to do what SH has told me to do......ask WH what kind of plan he has for our recovery. For him to give me a time line of "getting his head together".

Seriously, I cannot go on like this.

Keep me on the straight and narrow!!!!!!

Thanks, K

Hi, K!

I have to ask -- do you still have the gun hidden? Does he have access to another one? I am willing to bet (because I am also willing to bet that he is still seeing OW) that he will get mad when you talk to him as SH suggested. It seems that with every episode his anger has escalated -- last time he even shoved you. All it would take would be a little more anger (with some alcohol to top it off) and I am afraid you could have a murder-suicide on your hands. Please be careful and have a safety plan in mind!

You do sound different after this latest episode, sadder maybe, and less strong. Dust off that strong K and bring her back to her rightful/permanent place! Keep building up those strong "muscles"! You are really a lot stronger than you think you are...

Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

PS - About the new "2" in my name...lost my password, they couldn't recognize my e-mail...until I tried to re-register...long story short...new name, new e-mail address, less confusing password!