http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002562

A lot of life has happened since that post. Scroll down to the bottom for the Plan B letter.

1/25/05 We rush WS to hospital with chest pains. Went through stress test and heart imaging-nothing found. The Doctor does pick up on alcohol in her blood and physical condition she is in. 5'10"-118 lbs

1/28/05-Start of 4 day binge-friend pulls her out of the ditch at fout thirty pm. He and his nephews drive her and her car home and tell her to stay there. By nine thirty she is out again for all night.

1/29/05-Doesn't take DD as agreed to for the day.

1/30/05-I pull WS out of the ditch 300' from my house at five am. I take her to her house-we talk? (babbling until she fell asleep) and fall asleep until noon.
Promises to come out and four wheel with DD-Cook on the grill-
Never shows up.
1/31/05-Comes in and piles into bed at three am totally wasted.
Calls into work sick-also 2/1/05.
2/2/05-Asks me to drive her to local AA meeting. Has gone every day since.

This is typical. Usually not in the ER or ditch but drinking has taken over. Over the past six years little slices of enjoyable life have disapeared and been replaced with drinking situations. Out all night-broken promises-anger at everything in life. Short lived sobriety.

Does the A continue but very low profile now?
Is there someone new? The behavior now is just about the same as when I knew the A was going on.

Two years ago is when the drinking got heavy. Its also about the same time the OM came into the picture.

I ask again has this situation come up on MB site?
Was anything sucsessful to help promote sobriety and eventually MR??

Is there someone out there who has gone through a similar situation?

I know it says nothing can be accomplished with her until the one addiction is gone. I truly know that and have lived it many times.

Please comment. As far as Plan B I don't know if there would be anything to accomplish. My DD and I "cover up" in a protective shell so we won't be hurt, but for an eleven year old its a hurt they can't understand. We really have been mentally divorced for probably four years. Would there be anything to lose??????

Sorry for rambling. I am pretty sure the direction My DD and I must go. Just want to try anything before I give up.

Jerry

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jerry1128:
<strong> Sorry for rambling. I am pretty sure the direction My DD and I must go. Just want to try anything before I give up.

Jerry </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jerry,

My heart goes out for you. However as Harley indicated, addiction has to be dealt first, nothing more you could do. Protect yourself.

-rh-

I've gone dark now for 2 days which has not happened since 1986. At that time I knew nothing about M.

Thank God for this site.

A few questions:

How do you deal with the WS when you are both active with an eleven year old DD who is in dance band bowling etc?
Civil and make small talk?
Keep distance from WS but close to DD during the event?

How should I handle this?

How far financially should a person go during this time? There are some shared bills which I could split, turn over to her or just pay myself. They are not big ticket items but I know she is on a limited budget without me anymore.

I have a set time period before I proceed further down the road.

Should I mail a copy of the Plan B letter to the OM? She says they have had NC since early Nov but just haven't seen any change at all in WS. Take that back-she drinks more now.

I did find 2 calls on the cell phone bill which she said she did call OM to pull her out of the ditch (from 4 day binge about 10 days ago.)
OM would not do it or wasn't home. How many of you talk to an answering machine for two minutes and four minutes a few minutes apart in time?
I know the person that pulled her out. It was not OM but it still hurts that WS feels OK to call for a favor.
I really have just been to busy and tired to try and follow her miserable a** and verify anything for the last month.

Should OM recieve a copy of the letter??

Jerry

Jerry,

Plan B will not work right now. You can use it, but until the ADDICTION stops, there will be no forward progress. Instead, your WS will simply keep up the addiction - with or without any A.

Take one addiction at a time. It's past time for a true intervention - get her into treatment, preferably in-house treatment - outpatient won't work with a heavy case like hers.

Once she is in treatment, she will start to respond to other measures - you may not need plan B at all - plan A (getting her the help she needs while you learn what you need to work on) may be all there is to heal your marriage. If your do need plan B, remember that as long as she is under the effects of the addiction to alcohol, it will drive her to the ALCOHOL, not to the OP. That person may be there, but they rarely are important at all - once the addiction clears, the A will die on its own.

I'm not saying to stick around and hurt while you watch - but plan B will be ineffective as long as another addiciton is present. Take 'em on one at a time. Protect yourself and your daughter, do not enable her anymore, get to safety, but then make sure she is alright - she's in more danger than you can imagine.

Take care of yourself, your DD, and your wife.

Thinking of you

David

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Tanelornpete
Thanks for replying. I did give her the Plan B letter already and am only talking to her about My DD. She called 4 times today 3 times with small issues concerning DD. 4th time she called it was to ask me if I called her at work number. Why would I call the work number when I have her cell and also know when she goes to lunch? I gave a simple no and told her I have to go back to work. Probably less than 30 seconds.

AA Big Book P.58
Chapter 5
How It Works
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.

God Knows I've tried to help. I'm a recovering alcoholic myself since Aug of 1986. I am going to Al-Anon, AA and involved at church. I don't put pressure on her to go to any of it but I always invite.
Its extremely hard to watch the one you love spiral down hill slowly and know there isn't any way you can help them when they reject help.

At one point in the M she did have 10 years of sobriety. At this point she has been drinking for the past six years. The last 2 years very heavy. Its also when A was in progress.

The doctor in the emergency room (chest pains) (ON Tues.)took her aside and privately told her she was messing seriously with her physical health. 1st Blood test she took had very high alcohol. She told me this. Then to go on 4 day binge?

I don't want to watch this up close. It tears my DD up cause she knows when mom doesn't call at night she's probably out drinking.

She's been in treatment in 1988/2000?or 2001?Dec2003-not completed/July2004 not completed.

I don't like to enforce such a strong boundry with her but every where I go people say to take care of myself and the DD. Even in the Plan A/B article off this site it says "In general I recommend seperation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior."
This may be the last hope I have to help her-by totally doing nothing. As a friend for 25 years this just feels wrong but I'm going ahead with it. Even if the M never reaches recovery I hope she finds recovery from her addiction. I don't want to see her die and its getting to that point.

I will try your suggestion and only try to tackle one thing at a time. First the alcohol-then from there? I think your right about the OM. I like to think it won't be an issue if she sobers up

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry - BTDT - sobered up in 1985. Long hard road. Been great ever since, fighting the temptation right now with WW of with OM, but MB helps, and I have my memories of those awful days and also some good friends that hold me accountable....well, they'd beat the tar out of me if I got drunk, so I would remember it for a LONG time (I have some fun friends).

I seriously think the Addiciton to alcohol is the main problem - and A with OP is almost a certainty after enough booze, eh? We've been there! Get her into treatment, protect yourself and DD - get away from the situation as much as possible, but you will need to be there when she comes out of the addiction and has to own up to her actions.....right?

David

Tanelornpete

Hey thanks for the words this morning. I think your right and I need to slow down and just try to be there when and if she wants to sober up. The A probably was drink induced and God knows I've been there.

Been sober since aug of 86. Had one night stand A's during my drinking days. Had a revenge A in 87 when she has EA?PA? at the end of my drinking. It went PA after I sobered up. Got ugly and nasty. I was so stupid then.

I read some of your posts and it looks like your about ready for Plan B soon.

I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like your really workin the Plan A. Don't let WW push your buttons.

In a lot of ways I'm like you-I have chased after my WS and been available on the cell or at home. I held her 3 times over the past two years while she detoxed at home. Not a pretty site.

The last few days have been hard not seeing or talking to her but I feel better.

I've stayed with only talking to her about the DD. Iv'e kept it as brief as possible. Always have to go-politely.
Can you believe she called me 7 times yday to talk about DD. Now tday she wanted to give me a letter at my house when DD went to dance class. Thats OK-stop by and give it to me. She shows up here- one hour early-unexpected-no letter-forgot at home and leaves me wondering why she even stopped. She has the shakes-just like always after a major drunk and looks tired and wore out.

I take a quick shower, put on my best jeans and shirt. Put on some pretty boy smellin stuff and dig out the black leather coat that I used to only wear out with her. The whole time shes just getting more quiet. It may sound kinda cruel but I've watched her come and go for the past three years. It made me feel good to go through the motions. She left in a hurry but before she left I said I was really looking forward to her letter. She said its really hard to be alone after 25 years and you may not like what is says. All I said is I know its hard to be alone after 25 years together. She sent other signals along the way that usually would get me to bite into feeling sorry for her. I wasn't biting and left it alone. She plays the poor helpless victim role so well.

Well, sad to say but the coats still hanging on the chair and the blazer hasn't moved out of the driveway all night. Got house cleaning, cloths washing, and all that good fun stuff to do when the DD isn't here.

I'm gonna try to keep up on your posts over the week end. Good luck to you and your kids. It sounds like your on the right track. Its hards when you know with no doubt the A is going on. Keep venting here. This summer when I caught them together I was not on my best behavior. I saw a person I did not like at all.

We are so blessed to have this site.

Thanks for your help

Jerry

Jerry, Since you're in recovery and attending Al-Anon, you know you didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it. My H is addict/alcoholic. He was sober almost 10 years and lost sobriety 5-6 years ago. A came out in the open soon after and he moved in with MOW 4 years ago. For a year and a half, I let him come back almost daily, promising to get sober and give up A over and over again. At times, he was extremely verbally abusive, threatening, and destroyed property, then apologizing, buying me presents, making promises, etc.

I felt so sorry for him because of the drinking and believed his lies over and over again. It took me a year back in Al-Anon to let go and realize that I was my own worst enemy and NC (with the help of an RO) was the only way for me to detach.

Meanwhile he's destroying his life. He hasn't worked since moving in with MOW (nor has she), he's had a serious car accident and other encounters with the ER (I get the medical bills), he looks like he's gained about 100 pounds, he lost his professional license (as well as his driver's license), he cut off contact with his family and during that time his mother's been institutionalized with Alzheimer's, and worst of all, his son, my stepson, who WH had refused to communicate with in any way for almost two years, committed suicide with a blood alcohol of 0.28 (the same as WH's blood alcohol when he totalled his car and was airlifted to hospital).

Even after all this time, it's extremely painful and still hard to believe all that's happenned. I had a long struggle to accept my powerlessness over his choices. I just knew there had to be some way to make him get sober and realize what he was doing. But I couldn't.

Your wife may return to sobriety, she may not. In the AA mtgs I've attended there's always a moment of silence for the alcoholic who still suffers. Our WS's are being prayed for and we can continue to pray for them to. I do.

Keep working your own program. Take care of yourself and DD. Suggest DD attend Alateen. Building a protective shell is not the healthiest way to live.

LetSTry

Thanks for posting. I here the same thing over and over and I have done the same thing over and over. Isn't that what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

My story is the same. I have taken her back and taken her back expecting her to change. The merry-go-round just keeps spinning in the same circle.

With moving to Plan B I have gotten off the MGR and am going to try new things. Tried Plan A stuff but how can you ever meet ENs when they change at the drop of a hat? Detached for periods of time. Took her to meetings/treatment when she would ask for help. When she achieved short periods of sobriety I worked a good Plan A with promises of a bright future. Over and over the promises were broken.

There is no helping unless they really want it for themselves and do 99.99% of the work.

The A with the OM was a drinking A and being close to home it brought out a person in me I'm not proud of or like very much. The anger and resentment towards OM has been hard to work on. I get to see OM drive by just about every morning and don't even know if his drunk a$$ knows how he has helped to destroy our lives.
If you look on the V-D posting to OP (on gq2) the one entititled "DIE DIE DIE" is my all time favorite that I would personally like to read to him. I would actually like to see it become reality.

Sorry to vent on you but I'm quite sure you may have been there. Most days I pray for the SOB. Thats all the further I can get at this point. I have been reassured by people with far more wisdom than I that if I pray long enough-for everything I pray for myself-the resentment will go away.

Gotta run-Friday night meeting-

I wish you the best and thanks for the support.

Jerry

No doubt both are going on. No wonder things have not added up throughout the last few months.

This morning I was sitting in town after church for a while and guess who WS drives by with ??? Notice in my previous posts I had been using W for a while since I thought her alcohol addiction may have been the reason for major IB and her crazyness. Has sworn to me she has had NC with OM for a long time. Big surprise to MBers who have been here a while.


As far as I'm concerned Plan B will now continue with the main focus being on me and how I'm going to take care of myself. Now I don't have to wonder whats going on. Now I know what I'm dealing with. Fog from both addictions.

In a previous post I promised I would be there should she want treatment or help with her alcohol addiction and I will. I will not enable her to continue either addiction. Even if the M can't be saved I will help her with the alcohol addiction should she choose and ask.

Jerry