Back in October I found out that my husband was having an EA. He claims it was just a friendship, but it was one that made myself and the OW's husband very uncomfortable. Apparently she was unhappy in her marriage, they work together, developed a friendship, and my husband says he was trying to help her through a hard time. Now..knowing the man my husband is, I've given him the benefit of the doubt...or at least I'm trying to. I know he loves me, never questioned his whereabouts, and this relationship was basically centered around work and on the telephone. I didn't like her calling, and made it known that I was uncomfortable with it..still he thought it was harmless or just didn't care how I felt, and continued on with the friendship, only keeping the fact from me that they'd talk more than once a day on the phone (once a day was even too much)....

Just a few days prior to my finding out (her husband came to see me at work to tell me they're having an affair) we got a phone call at home...a man's name on the caller id and he (my husband)
immediately accused me of having an affair (I have no clue who it was..obviously a wrong number) and he started to say things to me like "we're not in love anymore, I'm not happy, I love you but I'm not in love with you, and the big one ..."I don't deserve to sleep in the same bed with you..I'm such a horrible person."..(now what would you think about that???)

It was a rough few days, but we started to talk about things..the lack of time we spend together, etc, and decided to work hard on re establishing the closeness in our relationship...

A few days later, OW's hubby comes to see me at work and tells me his wife was leaving him for my husband and all hell breaks loose. I immediately confronted my husband, and again, he claimed it was merely a friendship and yes, he was talking to her more than he should have, but had no romantic intentions toward her. I talked to her, too (went to where they both work, and demanded that she come outside to speak to me) and she too maintains that it was just a friendship. I gave them both an ultimatum..no contact or I'm gone, and since that day, they haven't spoken. I'm sure they talk at work..about work, but they don't have much of an opportunity to do much else..it's a very fast paced working environment, and since then, when he has a break, he calls me, and spends every lunch hour with me....the cell phone bill shows no calls to her or from her, so I do honestly feel there is no continuation of this inappropriate friendship.

I still wonder though....gosh, was it just a friendship??? The calls, the things he said just before I found out, and a weird thing...I went through his wallet not long ago looking for an insurance card (he was sleeping) and found a bunch of cut outs from the newspaper of yin yang symbols...at least 20 of them. They're a part of a local ad in the paper....Anyway...it had to have taken some time to cut them out, and why he'd save them, I have no idea. I asked him about it, and he had a look of shock on his face..saying he had no clue what I was talking about...I pressed the issue, and he says now "we were joking around at work, I thought they were odd, so I cut them out"..I asked who "we" were, and he said "all of us"..then it was "I was"...
I think it's odd...really really odd. He's not ambitious enough to cut things like that out of the paper..(and he had to have gone through at least 20 newspapers)and why would he save them? What made them that important to take the time (again, it's a fast paced working environment, where would he find the time?) to cut them out, and SAVE them??? I smell a rat, and he says I'm overreacting....

I still have issues with this whole EA....I really bug him about the whole thing...asking him why he felt the need to disregard the fact that I was so uncomfortable with the whole friendship and continue on with it? Why I wasn't important enough to put me first before his friendship with OW and it eats at me...really really eats at me...he claims he didn't think it was that big of a deal, but he had to have known..I was raising a big stink, even threatening to call her to tell her to stop calling my husband (and yet, that was then she was only calling the home phone once a day to tell my husband various things about her pathetic life..)...

At any rate..I just would like to know your thoughts on this...we're really trying hard to work things out..I realize I have to get past the EA, and I will in time..the wounds are still fresh, and I wonder if he was completely honest with me about the whole thing.....we're spending more time together, talking more, and laughing together more...I think we're on the right track, or at least I hope so....

This does not mean that your marriage is over. My H and I are proof that you can survive an affair and have a better marriage. It is not the marriage of before, the innocent marriage, but it is a good marriage. In many ways superior, but what a painful way to get here-painful to the BS.

I have been around this stuff for over four years. I have read here and have also read the OW sites to gain information. I needed to know how the otherside thought to fully recover. I needed to know all sides of an affair.

Every case is different, but there are striking similarities. There are folks here, like myself, who will tell you that word for word people in affairs go thru the exact same stages, say the same things, etc. Words like soulmate, rewriting history, saying things like I love you, but am not in love with you. I could go on and on. An affair is about lies. People in affairs will lie to keep it going a little longer.

From what you have written, I strongly suspect a physical affair as well. She wouldn't leave for an emotional affair, and your gut is telling you this. Need proof? Get a voice activated recorder at Radio Shack and put it under the seat of his car or somewhere at home near the phone when you are not there. I don't think you really need to go that far. Sit him down and tell him you know it was physical as well. These WSs will make you think you are going crazy. Some will deny it to the death only to have the OW who initally lied too confirm it to the wife when the affair gets stale. (97% are over within 2 years-only 3% of affair relationships last).

Did he carry a change of clothes in the car? Shower when he got home? Put underware on the bottom of the hamper? Buy new clothes? Go to the gym, golf, etc. These are classic affair behaviors. Going to the store and not coming back for hours. I could go on and on.

I am telling you this so that you have a chance to keep your eyes open. Another frequent occurance is contact after d day. Going underground with the affair and starting to see each other weeks, months or even years later. Read here and learn. It will be alright.

There was never any of that..no showering when he got home, no change of clothes in his truck...while I was suspicious that things were getting out of hand, I'd check daily...and honestly, I've always known where he was...if indeed something physical did happen, it didn't happen often...I can't see how...

Again, he claims he had no romantic feelings for this woman, but I have to wonder cause of those "foggy things" that he'd said to me...Perhaps he was just starting to develop feelings for her and was confused...I don't know....

My eyes are open..wide open. I check everything to the point where I think I'm neurotic...he knows I'm watching and he knows if there is any contact at all, then he loses me.

Sometimes it is just an EA. You may have found out in time.

I started with Dr Harley's book Surviving the Affair and His Needs, Her Needs.

I also liked the Men are from Mars book, gave me insight into how men think and also Dr Laura Slessenger's book the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. It will sicken you at first, but when you think about what Dr L is saying, it makes sense in an evolutionary way. Hang in there. Look how many of us there are on this site. Most marriages survive. Welcome.

Hi Betty,

Please don't kid yourself about what went and is going on.Your WH had and is still probably in an EA,at least.All the signs are there.Reading your post I kept nodding,yep heard that before,yep heard that too.WS script.The thing is they might have cooled it for now realizing that the cat is out of the bag and that things are getting heavy at home.But you should consider that things aren't over,at least not yet.They almost never end so abruptly.And,these supposed "friendships" with the opposite sex,especially where both parties are married are totally inappropriate.This OW had no business leaning on YOUR husband for support and vice versa.That in itself should speak volumes right there.

People in A's will lie right to your face,and honestly,your WH is no different.You want to believe that they couldn't do that to you but they do,it is heard here over and over.Look at his actions.

So,hopefully it hasn't progressed to a PA but now you have the issue where they work together.That is not good and presents a major problem.At this point,you need to get into Professional counseling.Please don't be fooled into thinking you can just get through this on your own.Even if there was "just" an EA,that is a big red flag that things aren't well within your marriage and you need help.Your WH has to be an open book and allow you access to all forms of contact: cell phone bills,e-mails,credit card statements,etc,etc.He also has to safeguard himself at work from this OW and I wonder if he even knows how to do this.

Most times when A partners work togehter,they still get a "fix" by the contact at work and that can prevent any kind of recovery or marriage building.Keep vigilant about looking for clues.Get into counseling and do read the books suggested here.Also,I hope you can keep the lines of communication open with the other husband.You could be allies in this.That is a start.

O

I agree w/Octobergirl. As I was reading, was thinking to myself, heard that, heard that, heard that, too.

The insidious thing is that your h is making you doubt yourself. Don't. All is not right, and I know it is tough when you don't have something specific to point to. Trust your gut.

They are not "just friends".

You are not crazy.

They are very very drawn toward each other.

Your husband is lying to you, at the very least lies of omission... but probably more.

The yin/yang cut outs are symbolic of their "friendship" ... and it is a sort of code-talk between them.

They have disguised their method of continued personal communication so it is more difficult for you and her H to discover, but it's there.

Their inappropriate relationship is not over, just more covert at this time.... which makes it more exciting and >gag< "special" to them.

They feel entitled to continue despite their spouses objections.

This will continue for a long time unless they are stopped by some sort of crisis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry..... that's what I think is going on.

Here's my advice ---> hire a PI .... you need to dig deeper.

Pep

Yeah I agree -all the negative stuff is a sure sign mine went on for almost 2 years and I found out after I was broken emotionally, and the A was almost over. Still not sure it is over and I keep watching. Mine started bringing shirts to work saying we can meet at resteraunt after and this way I do not have to come home and change. Now he comes home and changes but has a few times taken a shirt-says if I stop at store I don't like to be in uniform. yeah right -he always stops at stores everyday in uniform. So I suspect it may still be going on. I am watching and waiting it will come out on its own. I found out when an update came on line for a virious protection and it was not my sign in name but something his father used to say. He was stupid and did not change his password. Ck the history on your computer.

Betty, I am sorry but the others are right. It is an affair and it is still going on. Can you imagine his acting like this with a male "friend?"

It will go on as long as they working together. They don't want to lose their families so they have just gone "deeper." That "feeling" that you are having that there is more is not to be dismissed, it is probably right. I would start doing some serious sleuthing and doing it now before things get more serious.

I would also suggest contacting the OWH and sharing notes with him. He can be a great asset to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He claims it was just a friendship, but it was one that made myself and the OW's husband very uncomfortable.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, HELL no!

No you don't. Don't you believe that crap for ONE minute. Actively maintaining a friendship with someone of the opposite sex that offends BOTH sets of spouses? Thats typical sick WS crap. If he isn't there yet, he's well on his way. Her too.

Pat yourself on the back for having the courage and the vision to find this place. If you can't we'll pat for you. : )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I immediately confronted my husband, and again, he claimed it was merely a friendship and yes, he was talking to her more than he should have, but had no romantic intentions toward her</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeh. Just a "friendship." I don't imagine that he's wrecked many marriages with his male friends as of late. Ever?

If she really was his "friend," he would have yarded you AND her over to the OWH to set some of the records straight about where his feeling lie (pardon the odd pun).

This really is WS script. You are NOT insane. WS make up some pretty sick stories. Their special gift to you is not the EA nor the PA. It is the furtherance of their sicko behavior via your trust.

Welcome to the forums. MB is a good place to learn where to start fighting.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: sprint ]</small>

Betty,

There's a really good book out that covers EAs and workplace "friendships". It's called "Not Just Friends", by Shirley Glass.

The Harley's recommend it highly. It gives you a great perspective on workplace boundaries, and how to stay out of potential trouble. In my opinion it's written for professional counselors, as well as people immersed in affairs.

Glad you're here, please let us know how you're doing! Blessings, CSue

Contact OW's H and ask about ying/yang. Ask if there is any signifiicance to those symbols.

Remember you stated that OW's H told you his W was leaving him for your H. That's an EA gone wild. What is that status now?

Sounds like the EA went underground. There w/b signs and it sounds like they c/b very good at hiding it but will eventually slip.

You should not be paranoid but cautious.

Can you setup some phone counseling with Steve @ MB?

Read the books: Surviving an Affair, His needs/Her needs (by Dr W. Harley).....then read Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson). This will give you the plans and ways to spot or even smell an A.

I hope it is not a big rat. ;(

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Betty titled this thread as:
"Somethings Bothering Me ..."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your instincts are telling you this for a reason, Betty.

Your husband has simply become more creative in his contact. Are you checking his wallet for phonecards, the checking account and credit card accts for missing money or suspicious purchases? Have you installed spy sftwr on the PC yet? Do your vehicles have extra mileage on them?

Hire a PI and stay in contact with the OW's H, Betty ... you need to know.

Good luck and God Bless,
Jo

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

All of these post is right Betty. Go with your gut feelings. I told my H if he was honest with me and talk with me about the A we would try to work thur this. Somethings he did lie to me about to start with but if I ever thought he wasn't honest with me(My gut feelings)I would just ask him again later. Some I was right about and he wasnt being honest but he said he just didn't wanna hurt me any more. I also told him a lie hurts alot worse than the truth. Ya end up having to get over the truth and the lie that was told.
We have got more closer than we have been in years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Me: BS, age 51
H: WS, age 53
Married: 30 years
D-day 10-1-04
Affair lasted about 3 months
Working thur this mess
Ya can find most of my story here.....
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=033478

Betty -

Reading your story hit me so hard I had to post here as well. 4-5 years ago I met a co-worker with whom I got along pretty well. But it did not stay that way. We fell 'in love.' I thought she was my soulmate, she felt the same way about me. Our affair did not advance to a physical thing, the closest we got was some heavy kissing one night in the parking lot at work.

But through the whole thing, I kept up a relationship with my wife. I withdrew from her, would sit there with the family and picture the XOW in her place, thinking how wonderful that would be. I left my wife out of my life and she could tell something was wrong-she even asked me if I was having an affair. There was even a point where the XOW called me and I said "Hi Baby" to her - my wife heard me, but I somehow convinced her she had misheard what I said.

Our affair ended on it's own, mostly because I had a moment of conscience and turned down a direct sexual offer, which made the XOW angry. We didn't speak for months, and then one day, my W and I had a huge fight over one of my ENs, and I emailed XOW and got what I needed from her - I need to hear the words I love you, which is something my wife cannot do - upbringing issues. XOW wrote me back that she did, but was working her last day and moving somewhere to marry some guy she met over the internet. I didn't care about that, because we had already had enough time between us that the
'love' was over...at least it felt like it. It still felt good to hear those words though.

My wife found the email (I had given her access to my work account so that we could keep in touch throughout the day). The affair was exposed, my wife was deeply hurt (and she deeply hurt me - physically - broke a phone over my head). It took some time and councelling before things started to work again. (It was never really resolved, as you can tell by my current situation).

When I read your post, I saw the same thing all over again. Over and over and over. I've been there - I know how it works.

Do what you can to make sure - but at the very least, tell your husband that you are too uncomfortable with his relationship with her and you need it to stop - FOR YOU. If he cares enough for you, he will.

David

Thanks for all of the advice. I would like to reiterate that I do not believe this EA is still going on for many reasons. When all of this came to light back in October, I decided to get rid of our land line telephone so that nothing could be hidden. All of our incoming and outgoing telephone calls on our cell phone bill are listed so that way I know who calls, and when. My husband does have a credit card, but I pay all of the bills. I see all of the statements, I get the mail every day, and I know exactly how much money goes out. He takes a certain amount of money every week and that basically gets him his gas money and lunch money, etc. I don't question what he spends his money on, because he doesn't take a real substantial amount. (we pinch our pennies). There are no more cryptic phone calls...he often leaves his cell phone with me and takes mine...his whereabouts are always accounted for and there are never long absences. I'd say at this point, I believe nothing is going on however, I do have my eyes open.

Back when this all took place, we really were having a difficult time communicating. We have two special needs kids, and we don't have much time for one another. I've often felt that when we had kids, my life changed drastically, and his only changed a little. Rather than discussing issues, we swept them under the rug, and didn't communicate the way we should have been. He'd be in the kitchen cooking dinner, and I'd be in the living room with the kids. We'd go to bed, make love, then fall asleep....we never really talked to one another about things that mattered and I believe that this really contributed a lot to his EA. I became angry with him and when he was home, I'd snap at him a lot...My needs weren't being met, and to make myself feel good, I'd go shopping and buy things I didn't need. Money became an issue, and I didn't want to hear anything from him about my lack of self control in the shopping centers when he wasn't ever around. I felt that he didn't contribute to the family other than financially, so therefore, he had no say in anything. I basically made the decisions in terms of the kids, their education and therapy, the bills, everything..he didn't seem to want to be a part of it and Gosh, I was mad. I became madder, and he started talking to the OW.

I have to say in some respects that the EA was kind of a blessing in disguise...we're communicating better than we have before, and he's a part of every decision that's to be made. He spends more time with me, and with the kids, and I do feel that we're making our way back to each other.

I do realize all of this contributed to the EA, but I really beat myself up over it....I was angry with him and shut him out, but I was also really trying to get him to talk to me as well..the more emotionally absent he became, the angrier I got. I still don't understand why he was so emotionally absent from me for so long, and opened himself up to someone else, when here I was all along desperate for his attention and time. Part of me believes that perhaps he felt he couldn't fix things here at home, so he was attempting to help someone else fix her life. Maybe he became attached to her and maybe he was planning on leaving me for her...maybe he got scared, or opened his eyes to what was right in front of him, I don't know. All I know is that I'm putting myself in agony daily over the fact that it did happen rather than move forward with him and rebuild what we once had, but better than before. I cry every day and ask him why, and he really has no idea how wrong he was in his relationship with this OW. He realizes it hurt me and he claims that had he known it would have been this painful for me to have been involved in this "friendship" he'd have never continued on with it....when I asked him not to talk to her prior to her husband coming to see me, he refused to do so...part of me thinks the only reason he stopped contact with her is because of her husband asking them to stop, not me....but he says it was for me..

Her husband and I have talked but I do believe he's a snake. He's said to me that his wife is stupid and fat (she's not fat at all) and lazy, and that to me, shows me that he's not a very good person himself. How can someone be married to someone they have absolutely no respect for? I don't consider him to be someone I'd compare notes with. I'm no therapist but everything he says to me basically shows me that if he's not physically abusive to her, he's verbally abusive...I'd rather not talk to him. I did tell her, however, that rather than lean on someone elses husband again, perhaps she needs to get herself into therapy. I hope she takes my advice.

My husband and I are not in counseling at the present time, and he's not one that believes in counseling. I realize that I have a lot on my plate and I should at least go to independent counseling. With two autistic children, there are days I'm ready for a total meltdown....seems though that I feel like I have a handle on most things, and why do I need to selfishly take time away from them, to focus on myself? (and I know that's not selfish, but...I can't convince myself of that, either)...

Anyway, there's my story...I'm overall pretty happy with who I am. I have three great kids, my husband loves me, even though he's made some pretty stupid choices in the last year...Because of those choices, I've got big issues...and I just need to learn how the heck to get through them...which is why I'm here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for listening

After that incredibly long post, I realized I failed to mention that I'm aware that his needs weren't being met either. He claims that they were, that I'm all he's ever wanted, but I wasn't the most pleasant wife..how could I have been meeting his needs? One thing he said was that it was nice talking to someone who was so pleasant (OW)...I wasn't pleasant... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Betty,
I was glancing through the March issue of Oprah magazine, and thought of you when I read a reference to ying yang. It was in an article about tantric sex, so I thought you ought to know about this connotation.

This may NOT be anything to do with why your H was keeping those clippings, but wanted to pass the info along in case you needed it.

LC

Thank you, Lady clueless...I looked up the whole ying yang/tantric sex connection after I read your post, and I saved a few of the sites that I linked on. I'd like for my H to read them, as well as this site. He's not gonna like seeing our "story" posted on this site.

As much as I'd like to believe my husband never had an emotional connection this woman, part of me knows that he did, whether he admits it to me or not. He did tell me that the yin yang symbol was amusing to him as he thought it represented "69"...the thought of OW and he sharing this "inside joke" tends to pass through my mind. I have a feeling that this indeed was something between the two of them. Why else would he take all that time to cut them out (unless she did) and save them? It obviously represents something to him, and had to have meant something in order for him to save it.

Anyway....I guess the truth would only free me and give me the ability to heal. I don't feel that I'm getting the whole truth here, and regardless if the EA is over, I still don't feel free from the torment that this whole thing has put me through. I guess that's my problem here....I can't let go. I really want to, Gosh, I really do.....I just don't know how.

Thanks for the info. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Betty